Real Estate Crash thread

[fastfred]

so the bosses and all the people who have to wake up every day and goto an acutal job are upset that some people get to lounge around in pj's do laundry go outside and weed the garden not commute get a fat paycheck and they get to call that work

I guess I see how it is

sent from the home office high as a kite in my pjs pretending to work and posting on tgr

[summit]

True, but that ultimately falls on the manager, who can then be held more accountable by upper management for their employees in the office who they supervise all day vs their remote worker who lives in their van on the beach in San Diego and "works" 8 hours a day but actually surfs for 4 of them.

Dude this is a shitass old school "butts in seats = productivity" management style.

If it is a job that can be performed in 4 hours by a high performer and 8 by your expected worker, perhaps you did succeed in setting reasonable measurable productivity goals but failed to incentivize additional productivity.

[yeahman]

As I've said from the beginning based on personal experience, and it's reiterated in the WSJ article, the real difficulty in remote work comes when you try to onboard new employees. We're at the point now where that's increasingly becoming an issue due to inevitable turnover.

[east or bust]

so the bosses and all the people who have to wake up every day and goto an acutal job are upset that some people get to lounge around in pj's do laundry go outside and weed the garden not commute get a fat paycheck and they get to call that work

I guess I see how it is

sent from the home office high as a kite in my pjs pretending to work and posting on tgr

Fucking nailed er Fred, well kind of.

Those people maybe are upset, but the real driver here is the bottom dollar being surveilled by corporate/private CEO/CFO. I don't pretend to know the numbers but if Google puts out a policy like that it's driven by dollars not jealousy.

[XXX-er]

IBM has been doing remote HW and SW support for I'm guessing 25 yrs, i used to talk to country support guys in their basements and it didnt seem to matter, they need an interent connection for the LT and headset, support guy takes a call from the cue and takes another when they finish for 8hrs, it didn't matter if they were in a cubical downtown or at home they generate real on-line stats

but when they gave me an LT that was the end of productivity

[skaredshtles]

Some companies will figure out remote work, and others won't.

I'd wager the ones that can figure it out will have their pick of productive talent.

And at the end of the day, as a manager, do they really give a f**k if someone gets the work done in 2 hours vs. 8 so long as the work gets done?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[east or bust]

Dude this is a shitass old school "butts in seats = productivity" management style.

If it is a job that can be performed in 4 hours by a high performer and 8 by your expected worker, perhaps you did succeed in setting reasonable measurable productivity goals but failed to incentivize additional productivity.

I'm not disagreeing with anything your saying, just that it's simply not the current attitude in a corporate environment where the only thing they really care about is maximizing profits.

[jackstraw]

I'm not disagreeing with anything your saying, just that it's simply not the current attitude in a corporate environment where the only thing they really care about is maximizing profits.

Pull the lease, water bill, electric bill, toilet paper, coffee, etc out of your expenses and take a look at p&l bottom line.

[mcphee]

As I've said from the beginning based on personal experience, and it's reiterated in the WSJ article, the real difficulty in remote work comes when you try to onboard new employees. We're at the point now where that's increasingly becoming an issue due to inevitable turnover.

Sounds like you better get to work with modernizing your onboarding process. Hemming and hawing about on a ski forum in the middle of the day seems par for the course with the lumberghs though.

[yeahman]

Sounds like you better get to work with modernizing your onboarding process. Hemming and hawing about on a ski forum in the middle of the day seems par for the course with the lumberghs though.

That's a pretty dumb take.

[mcphee]

That's a pretty dumb take.

You’re a dumb take

[Norseman]

[Name Redacted]

Im the king of convincing myself to buy something new by saying “I’ll sell the old one for X dollars”. But then never selling it.

[Foggy_Goggles]

If your job can be done from the couch, probably best to think long and hard if it's worth paying you to do it.

I think what you should probably be angling for is hybrid. If your physical presence isn't needed, ChatGTP, India or some motivated young buck in Peoria is coming for you job.

But you do you. If you can make it stick, more power to you. But it ain't your choice to make.

Sent from my Turbo 850 Flatbrimed Highhorse

[J. Barron DeJong]

I work for a global company. Most employees on-site, but certain roles are almost exclusively remote. Has been like that for 30+ years.

I’ve been remote for about 15 years, in a role that isn’t typically remote, since they wanted to keep me even though I was moving across country regardless.

The idea that your job is going to be in jeopardy just because it’s remote is a bit naive I think. I just lost a co-worker in a similar role to me, who had been with us for a few years, because he couldn’t perform. He was in office full time.

I do agree that on-boarding is more difficult with everyone being remote. I worked on-site for 5+ years before going remote.

[Dantheman]

The more a job requires soft skills and relationships the less likely it can be done well remote. Some jobs need that, some don't, it's going to take a while to figure it out and every company is going to figure out a different solution.

[J. Barron DeJong]

The more a job requires soft skills and relationships the less likely it can be done well remote. Some jobs need that, some don't, it's going to take a while to figure it out and every company is going to figure out a different solution.

Our employees who most rely on soft skills and relationships are in sales, and that’s almost exclusively remote for us.

[hatchgreenchile]

Our employees who most rely on soft skills and relationships are in sales, and that’s almost exclusively remote for us.

Sales gigs are traveling to see customers, trade shows, suppliers, HQ, etc.
Home office, but not what I consider remote.

[Foggy_Goggles]

We are all saying the same shit. But we should fight about it, TGR style.

We've already had 2 COVID refuge families sell and bounce from our 'hood. When Lumberg calls you back to the office, when the bills are do, sometimes that doesn't look like a choice.

Luck for me, this $120k deck can't be built remote. With the Karen's coming out in force to oppose a simple apartment complex with truly amazing classist entitled rage, it seems we are pretty committed to supply constraints.

It's starting to feel like a faux woke version of The Villages around here. The should call it The Enclaves, sounds exclusive...oh wait.

Sent from my Turbo 850 Flatbrimed Highhorse

[J. Barron DeJong]

Sales gigs are traveling to see customers, trade shows, suppliers, HQ, etc.
Home office, but not what I consider remote.

Yes, that’s all part of their role, but I’d guess about 80% of the time is spent in the home office for our guys/gals. They’re not door-to-door salesmen.

[goldenboy]

Luck for me, this $120k deck can't be built remote. With the Karen's coming out in force to oppose a simple apartment complex with truly amazing classist entitled rage, it seems we are pretty committed to supply constraints.

Yes, supply will be constrained for a long time. That's why prices aren't dropping right now despite high interest rates, in most locations at least.

The one long term thing that I keep thinking about is the Boomers. It's a huge generation and the oldest ones are now mid 70's. In the next 10 years they'll start passing away at an increasing rate or end up in nursing homes. That might finally unlock some supply, IMO. But in the meantime no one is building enough and no one with a 2.5% mortgage is that inclined to sell if they don't have to.

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

We've been waiting for the boomers to start downsizing for 10 years and we'll still be waiting another 10 at least.

[oldnew_guy]

Productivity, onboarding, training new staff are part of the issues with remote.

Another one is that these companies have huge amounts of capital tied up in commercial real estate.

Hybrid is fine. Couple days in the office wasting a couple extra hours on bullshit "collaboration" and "team strengthening" meetings and water cooler talk the big boss wants to see so I can get some actual work done at home where I don't have to get interrupted.

There is a time and place for in office work. It's not 40 hours a week. I've worked in enough in person jobs (construction, office, public sector, private sector) to know that just as much time gets wasted, it's just that instead of laundry its bullshitting about the football game or someone trying to pretend you are their therapist.


In other news, the headline in Oregon is that most renters don't make enough money to pay their rent and be considered financially stable. Median rent for a 2 bedroom is like $1800.

[Mazderati]

Not sure I buy the dead boomer relief arguments. In other news, here is an uncurated snip from today's Redfin feed.

[J. Barron DeJong]

No slow down in housing needs expected going forward:



More than you could ever care to know here:
https://www.urban.org/sites/default/...eownership.pdf