lazy ass illegals

[Benny Profane]

Dear President Bush:
I'm about to plan a little trip with my family and extended family, and I would like to ask you to assist me.

I'm going to walk across the border from the U.S. into Mexico, and I need to make a few arrangements. I know you can help with this.

I plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws. I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do here.

So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Vicente Fox, that I'm on my way over? Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:

1. Free medical care for my entire family.

2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not.

3. All government forms need to be printed in English.

4. I want my kids to be taught by English-speaking teachers.

5. Schools need to include classes on American culture and history.

6. I want my kids to see the American flag flying on the top of the flag pole at their school with the Mexican flag flying lower down.

7. Please plan to feed my kids at school for both breakfast and lunch.

8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy access to government services.

9. I do not plan to have any car insurance, and I won't make any effort to learn local traffic laws.

10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from Pres. Fox to leave me alone, please be sure that all police officers speak English.

11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.

12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, and don't enforce any labor laws or tax laws.

13. Please tell all the people in the country to be extremely nice and never say a critical word about me, or about the strain I might place on the economy.

14. Eventually I want to be able to vote and have all election materials and notices sent to me in English with Spanish as a second language..

I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for all the people who come to the U.S. from Mexico.

I am sure that Pres. Fox won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely. However, if he gives you any trouble, just invite him to go quail hunting with your V.P.

Fuck you for posting this, and fuck the hate.

Lazy ass, my ass. Like your neighborhood is full of freeloading Mexicans. They're here to clean your toilets, wash your dishes, haul your crap, anything for a buck. They walked hundreds of miles across hell to do it, or paid some scumbag a lot of whatever to put them through hell to avoid other hells getting here. And now they have to listen to this. They shouldn't learn English, so the stupid spews are silent to them, as they try to survive in a basic way.

As if you even have any Mexicans nearby. I find that this stupidity is almost always rooted in ignorance or the reality of things. Your view is probably through the ugly little lens of Fox and Rush. White men profiting from hate, and distracting you from how you are being duped and "exploited" on a daily basis.

[mr_gyptian]

Fuck you for posting this, and fuck the hate.

Lazy ass, my ass. Like your neighborhood is full of freeloading Mexicans. They're here to clean your toilets, wash your dishes, haul your crap, anything for a buck. They walked hundreds of miles across hell to do it, or paid some scumbag a lot of whatever to put them through hell to avoid other hells getting here. And now they have to listen to this. They shouldn't learn English, so the stupid spews are silent to them, as they try to survive in a basic way.

As if you even have any Mexicans nearby. I find that this stupidity is almost always rooted in ignorance or the reality of things. Your view is probably through the ugly little lens of Fox and Rush. White men profiting from hate, and distracting you from how you are being duped and "exploited" on a daily basis.

Frozen, can we get a soap box emoticon for Benny? I don't think he's getting his message out.

sincerely,

Hate spewing WASPs

[mr_gyptian]

Well, it could be worse.
This is a quote about Europe's immigrants:

http://www.eastbayexpress.com/Issues...ure/books.html

the fruits of a guest worker program.

[Benny Profane]

Fuck you, too.

[Will]

At the end of this post are some points from the Center for Immigration Studies. The center was founded by a former writer for the National Review, but apparently takes a more moderate stance.

The basic gist of it all is that illegal immigrants do contribute to society, but overall they take more than they give. This has to do with them being uneducated and poor, thus requiring more social services, not lazy. If you're working for less than minimum wage, even if you're working like a dog, you will probably take more from the gov't than you give. This is not a surprise. Gov't social services exist so that we can provide the poor with services which they cannot afford on their own.
One rather interesting point: If illegals were made legal they would cost even more, as they would have greater access to gov't services.

I do not think it is a good idea to close the doors on immigration. For one thing, it won't work. For another, when you have a negative birth rate (a couple produces on average less than two children) you get a population where the old people (needing social services) outnumber the young people. Look at Japan for example.

We should expect immigrants to adapt to American society to a certain degree, but we cannot expect them to change entirely. Assimilation is a two way street. I grew up in NYC and every year there was the St. Patricks Day parade, Christopher Columbus day (seen as a celebration of Italian-American heritage), the West Indian Day Parade, Chinese new year, etc etc... Trying to force an immigrant population to completely adopt their host country's history and traditions simply won't work. You'll end up with a divided society where the immigrant population feels like oppressed second class citizens. A feeling which will probably be promoted/encouraged by some for political power. For example: see France.

Right, I've babbled. Here's the points about taxation:

• Illegal alien households are estimated to use $2,700 a year more in services than they pay in taxes, creating a total fiscal burden of nearly $10.4 billion on the federal budget in 2002.
  
• Among the largest federal costs: Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).
  
• If illegal aliens were legalized and began to pay taxes and use services like legal immigrants with the same education levels, the estimated annual fiscal deficit at the federal level would increase from $2,700 per household to nearly $7,700, for a total federal deficit of $29 billion.
  
• With nearly two-third of illegals lacking a high school diploma, the primary reason they create a fiscal deficit is their low education levels and resulting low incomes and tax payments — not their legal status or their unwillingness to work.
  
• Amnesty increases costs because illegals would still be largely unskilled, and thus their tax payments would continue to be very modest, but once legalized they would be able to access many more government services.
  
• The fact that legal immigrants with little schooling are a fiscal drain on federal coffers does not mean that legal immigrants overall are a drain. Many legal immigrants are highly skilled.
  
• Because many of the costs are due to their U.S.-born children, who are awarded U.S. citizenship at birth, barring illegals themselves from federal programs will not significantly reduce costs.
  
• Although they create a net drain on the federal government, the average illegal household pays more than $4,200 a year in federal taxes, for a total of nearly $16 billion.
  
• However, they impose annual costs of more than $26.3 billion, or about $6,950 per illegal household.
  
• About 43 percent, or $7 billion, of the federal taxes illegals pay go to Social Security and Medicare.
  
• Employers do not see the costs associated with less-educated immigrant workers because the costs are spread out among all taxpayers.

[cj001f]

I'm sure glad nobody thought the Irish, Italians, Poles, Czechs, Swedes, Norwegians, French, Germans, Chinese and Japanese immigrants were a bunch of freeloading donothings coming to take our jobs. Where would we be then? Same stupid rhetoric, different century.

Could we scale this one down for Mr Gyptian?

[P_McPoser]

I'm sure glad nobody thought the LEGALIrish, Italians, Poles, Czechs, Swedes, Norwegians, French, Germans, Chinese and Japanese immigrants were a bunch of freeloading donothings coming to take our jobs. Where would we be then? Same stupid rhetoric, different century.

Could we scale this one down for Mr Gyptian?

[cj001f]

trust a dittohead to think that caveat excuses the hate. There are 10's of millions of legal immigrants that want what commonlaw, gyptian, et al are raging against - the right of immigrants to preserve their culture. St Patricks day is ok, but Cinqo de Mayo isn't?

[P_McPoser]

Fuck you for posting this, and fuck the hate.

Lazy ass, my ass. Like your neighborhood is full of freeloading Mexicans. They're here to clean your toilets, wash your dishes, haul your crap, anything for a buck. They walked hundreds of miles across hell to do it, or paid some scumbag a lot of whatever to put them through hell to avoid other hells getting here. And now they have to listen to this. They shouldn't learn English, so the stupid spews are silent to them, as they try to survive in a basic way.

As if you even have any Mexicans nearby. I find that this stupidity is almost always rooted in ignorance or the reality of things. Your view is probably through the ugly little lens of Fox and Rush. White men profiting from hate, and distracting you from how you are being duped and "exploited" on a daily basis.

Ok, you're a little jaded also. I lived 40 miles north of the border for 9 years. I DID have freeloading mexicans crossing my property, leaving their garbage, and shitting all over the fucking place. Nothing says "friendly" like a bunch of thirsty, hungry, undersupplied people roaming your property in the middle of the night! These people would also (un-intentionally) jeapordize their lives and 100s of thousands of dollars worth of business by wandering onto the mine site during blasting hours at least once a week. One of the local hospitals recently had to de-activate their trauma center because of the bills from illegals that it is trying (unsucessfully) to get the federal government to repay. I've suffered from 2-3 uneccessary traffic stops per month due to driving a large vehicle with tinted windows (favorites of coyotes). I have seen van loads of illegals involved in fatal collisions run off into the desert to avoid the consequences.....Now, not all illegals behave this way, in fact, I like to think that these folks are the minority, but come on, don't fucking try to tell me that there are no negative impacts from illegal aliens.

In short...Fuck you. Don't call bullshit on others' perceptions if yours are also not based upon firsthand experiences.

[Will]

So do you support changing immigration laws to make it easier to enter this country?

Ellis Island is closed. You can no longer simply get on a boat in Europe with all your family and a few suitcases, arrive in the US, get inspected for Trachoma, and then move your entire family into a one room apartment on the lower east side.

[P_McPoser]

trust a dittohead to think that caveat excuses the hate. There are 10's of millions of legal immigrants that want what commonlaw, gyptian, et al are raging against - the right of immigrants to preserve their culture. St Patricks day is ok, but Cinqo de Mayo isn't?

I wasn't blindly supporting his entire list...Just pointing out the difference.
I've lived in heavily hispanic areas my entire life. Cinqo de Mayo is celebrated by myself and my friends in the same light as st. paddy's day...

[P_McPoser]

So do you support changing immigration laws to make it easier to enter this country?

Ellis Island is closed. You can no longer simply get on a boat in Europe with all your family and a few suitcases, arrive in the US, get inspected for Trachoma, and then move your entire family into a one room apartment on the lower east side.

Absolutely. I'm not anti-mexican, or anti-immigration, I am anti-criminal.

[Benny Profane]

Absolutely. I'm not anti-mexican, or anti-immigration, I am anti-criminal.

oh, well, shit, you must have a real hard time with Ken Lay, "Scooter" Libby, and at least half of fucking Congress. Those are the dudes fucking with you big time, and laughing at your pettiness.

Hey, didya hear Rush finally got arrested? Doctor shopping for a narcotic. fucking junkie.

[P_McPoser]

oh, well, shit, you must have a real hard time with Ken Lay, "Scooter" Libby, and at least half of fucking Congress. Those are the dudes fucking with you big time, and laughing at your pettiness.

Hey, didya hear Rush finally got arrested? Doctor shopping for a narcotic. fucking junkie.

Good. Lock them up, lock up GWB's law breaking ass while your at it, please. What was your point supposed to be? Are you assuming things, AGAIN?

You're hitting into left field assuming I'm republican, listen to rush limbaugh, or hate mexicans.

[The Dad]

Several brain farts follow, in no particular order.

On the income taxes issue, suffice it to say that since the crackdown on employers began in the mid-90s, many illegal immigrants have resorted to fake social security numbers and ID for employment. Even if they don't file a tax return, tax is withheld, just never credited against a return. I learned about this when we hired a nanny who claimed to be legal, who gave us her Social Security card, and then called and confessed the night before she was to start, because she was afraid that we were going to do more to check her identification. Since then, I've learned that it's very common.

Moreover schools and other local services are primarily paid out of property taxes. Assuming that most illegal immigrants will be unable to purchase homes but rent instead, the property tax is paid by the owner. They get away with nothing.

Aside from that, all I can say is that my kids go to school with many children of illegal immigrants, and I have seen no greater incidence of any type of antisocial behavior with them than with those born to natives. Nor have I seen any less willingness to volunteer or contribute to the school. In fact, anectdotally, at least the Mexican immigrants are more likely to donate to the PTA etc., because they would have to do so at home.

And for the record, at least one of my grandparents snuck around the laws to come here. In those days, they were cracking down on those from Eastern and Southern Europe -- especially Jews -- so he went to Argentina to work as a gaucho for a few years, then managed to get in on the Argentine quota. The more things change....

[Dexter Rutecki]

Who you calling immigrant, Pilgrim?

Fucking assholes scapegoating foreigners--want to pull up the ladder once they're in. Hypocritical bullshit.

[cloudpeak]

The hatred exhibited by people who dislike the immigrants who have been labeled as "illegals" amazes me. The US has seen other episodes of this type of hatred for immigrants in its history: for example, against Irish, Italian, Chinese, Japanese, and even Puerto Rican immigrants. The US internment camps, like the one at Heart Mountain Wyoming, remain a shameful part of our history. Likewise, the episodes where Jews were turned away from this country during WWII are nothing to be proud of either.

I guess every group of immigrants wants the door to close behind them. Yet, the US and its employers encourage "illegals" to come here. Without these immigrants, Americans would have to pay more for their food, for things like roofing, for domestic help, and for landscaping. Most Americans benefit in some way from the hard work of these people. And, as a previous poster noted, these workers are not really the freeloaders that the conservative press would have you believe they are.

Finally, for those who want to send 'em back where they came from, how could the US ever accomplish such a thing and remain a free and open society?

[P_McPoser]

I say again, not a freeloader in the bunch

But his problem had grown severe. Dickson's uncompensated costs for treating illegals rose from $35,000 in 1999 to $450,000 in 2004. His total shortfall now sits at about $1.4 million, a hefty deficit for a 14-bed hospital. To make ends meet, he had to close, in June 2000, the Copper Queen's long-term care facility, and cut back on staff and hours, forcing some employees to take second jobs to survive.

[cj001f]

I say again, not a freeloader in the bunch

You think they are different than poor residents? Emergency rooms have become the primary care providers for poor people in our health system. They are failing in record number across the country - even in areas with few illegals. We could always deny care for those who don't have the ability to pay. There's an ethical solution. Of course scapegoating illegals is easier.

[Camilo]

Want to pull up the ladder once they're in.

^^^I like that. I got into this country fair and square, but I can't blame anybody who needs to get in here by any means possible.

[Will]

You think they are different than poor residents? Emergency rooms have become the primary care providers for poor people in our health system.

Bingo.

Look at the stuff I posted earlier. If we made illegal immigrants legal they would cost the federal government more money because they would have access to a wider variety of government resources.

The issue is not legal v. illegal, but poor v. not poor. Illegal immigrants don't have much money, thus they use more government sources. The problem is that we need people to do low-wage work. Legal immigrants, illegal immigrants, native bord 'muricans... whatever, our society has jobs for which we are not willing to pay a lot of $$. The people who take those jobs will probably draw more from government trough than they put in. That's just how it's going to be until we figure out a way to outsource menial service sector jobs.

[P_McPoser]

You think they are different than poor residents? Emergency rooms have become the primary care providers for poor people in our health system. They are failing in record number across the country - even in areas with few illegals. We could always deny care for those who don't have the ability to pay. There's an ethical solution. Of course scapegoating illegals is easier.

I guess it depends on your location in the US. In southern AZ, the Illegal Immigrants placed a mich higher burden on the hospitals than un-insured americans.

[mr_gyptian]

I'm sure glad nobody thought the Irish, Italians, Poles, Czechs, Swedes, Norwegians, French, Germans, Chinese and Japanese immigrants were a bunch of freeloading donothings coming to take our jobs. Where would we be then? Same stupid rhetoric, different century.

Could we scale this one down for Mr Gyptian?

ummh...I think the demagoguery thread is currently on oil, cj.

I don't think these immigrants are coming to take our jobs. I want to create a way for them to become citizens. I do not think a guest worker program would work based upon Europe's current situation, especially France's situation.

It is particularly ridiculous that people are threatened by 11 million illegals while we have a 4.9% unemployment rate.

my issue is that these illegals are going to use a communist holiday to protest their "rights" as workers in the US. using ANSWER to forward your cause doesn't seem to be the best plan to me. I don't think the illegals as a group are getting very good advice. unskilled laborers aren't hard to find, nor are they in short supply. In lieu of that I'd think going to work on Monday might be a good idea. but that's just one hate spewing white guy talking. what do I know?

[danimal's dead]

You guys are so quick to label people nazi's, republicans, rush lovers or whatever.

I'm a hippy ski bum, sure my hair is shorter now and I shaved my beard, but I didn't vote for Bush. Montana has a democrat for a governor who I voted for, a democrat Senator (Max Baucus), and we're about to get rid of Conrad Burns and pick up a 2nd democrat senator. You people can't even discuss issues that have serious implications on our country without immediately throwing out all these stupid labels that have nothing to do with the issue at hand.

[mc_roon]

where I live, there are tons of mexicans. When I go down to visit family in friends in so cal, there are tons of mexicans. One of my friends was turned away from a hospital with head trauma(severe bleeding) because, "the hospital is currently understaffed because of all the treatment we give out and never get paid for." What about all the issues of class size in California? What about the kids who dont speak english, cant read or write, and get put in 10th Grade because that is where all the kids their age are. Does that make a conductive learning envivorment. Without the labor they provide, California would suffer in the short run. But, the ones who are here legally are fine. Not a day goes by that I dont see at least 20 men standing outside a Home Depot hoping for someone to pick them up. They are a drain on our economy. They arent stupid, they realize that if they can cross the border, they will be provided with education and free health care. We have to find a way to remove the incentive for them to cross.
Another thing. Remember the 'white flight' from the inner city. Give it 10 years with no changes to the laws, and there will be white flight from all of California.