179 Stiff Bro mini-review

[splat]

Just a quick note to those of you waitng - just got a shipment of 179s and some 188s this am and I'll be turning them around to you all. More on the way...

[flip]

Stebed is right.
So is Splat.

Topsheet design does matter. Bros won't be available for long if they don't sell to more than just maggots. Reminds of mountain bikers that get all pissy when they see novs (nov = jong) riding $4000 turner's on the bike path, because the product isn't boutique anymore. Yeah, well guess who pays for the scale to make Turner's (and PMGear's) business sustainable?

So in reality it doesn't matter at all if anyone on this board likes the graphics... you all would buy the skis anyway, because they're great fucking skis. What really matters is whether the superficial douchebags in Aspen will buy them to help sustain your habit.

[Core Shot]

Simple solution for you Bro graphics haters:

Wood topsheets.

Seems to work for Iggy, Scottybob, Capital, etc.

Next time you guys do a pressing, make maybe 25% of them with wood tops with a simple Bro/PMgear logo. Charge an extra $100 or $150.
They would prolly sell out.
Witness the excessive drool generated by a new pair of iggys.

[flip]

Simple solution for you Bro graphics haters:

Wood topsheets.

Seems to work for Iggy, Scottybob, Capital, etc.

Next time you guys do a pressing, make maybe 25% of them with wood tops with a simple Bro/PMgear logo. Charge an extra $100 or $150.
They would prolly sell out.
Witness the excessive drool generated by a new pair of iggys.

I personally think the original monochrome Nordicas (when they first bought Kastle) are the best looking skis ever made - the original bright green, flat red, and flat black ultrawaves... but it doesn't really matter what I think.

I had a conversation with the head of a major ski company on why they don't enter the snowboard market - because he said his company didn't know how to market to kids... "all kids care about is graphics and it has nothing to do with the quality of the board." The whole time I was thinking to myself, ah the irony, because the ski market is exactly the same it's just that this company's designers DID know how to make a product visually appealing to adults.

[splat]

PM Gear is at a turning point about now. We have been hosed by maufacturers two years in a row. The skis have cost us more than what we're selling them for, making three consecutive years of losing money - not much, but enough, and it has hampered the growth we have wanted to attain to get to the places people think we should be. Only because we think we should be there, too. But if it was easy, everybody would do it.

We are looking at going to China, which we don't want to do. At the same time, we have the opportunity to buy a press and gain more control over our destiny by making our own prototypes and lines of skis better than our current and past maufacturers have done. We have some people who want to come on board and help us attain these goals and we'll be bustin a move soon, as working on the skis all winter is a real fukkin drag. If things go right, we'll have a good stock of boards come September and can operate less on the edge of order to shipping and just be shipping when the snow flies. Then I can get back to my regular schedule of skiing, skiing, skiing (and working at night).

[uncle crud]

there's no reason why they can't make great skis and make lots of money.. just like there's no reason why a person can't be a great musician/artist/etc and make lots of money.. and really, who wouldn't want to 'get rich'? i know lots of people who could care less about owning a big house and a fancy car, but money also buys freedom and peace of mind.. and i don't know anyone who doesn't want that.

dude you need to go live on your own with a sack of rice and a .22 cal in an old bus in the Alaskan bush, dig?

people will buy a quality product even if it looks like yo mammy's nethers. style cues from The OC may be your life bible, but jack, there's a whole lot more to life than folding papers in your wallet or bank account.

oh and thanks for letting us know you're "semi-retired at 27" although I think you misspelled the post-hyphen part of the contraction.

[eldereldo]

Just a quick note to those of you waitng - just got a shipment of 179s and some 188s this am and I'll be turning them around to you all. More on the way...

179 Softs included? Although all these comments about how soft the 179 stiffs are is getting me worried about using the softs for BC, maybe I should be going with the stiffs, Any comparison on the softs, ie are they Carbon Surf Soft or what?

[splat]

179 Softs included? Although all these comments about how soft the 179 stiffs are is getting me worried about using the softs for BC, maybe I should be going with the stiffs, Any comparison on the softs, ie are they Carbon Surf Soft or what?

ee - I've seen you, I've seen photos of you skiing. You can handle the stiffs, trust me. The softs start getting made this week and that puts them two weeks out. If you want the skis faster, go stiff, eldo.

[alpinepronghorn]

Heh... If nothing else, this thread is proof that the topsheets keep people talking. Anyway, here's my final review. Hopefully my comments on these can be focused on TRs from now on!

DAY 3: The Village

To gauge the 179 Stiffs in a wide range of conditions, I brought the the bros to Teton Village for testing. For this, it turned out to be the perfect day. Conditions ran the gamut from knee deep pow to icy, and I was able to experiment on all aspects and pitches, and even a little in the air. Though I didn't run into BrklnTrayc on her 179's or get asked for change, I and my dynafits did manage to get a lot of funny looks from tourons in lift line...

In the pow, they performed as before, though maybe a little better as I've started to develop a sense of the balance they require. (Going from a long ski to a short ski can expose some intersting things about your skiing...) I was able to power through cut up pow nicely, and found that the ski's light weight means that it's easier to bounce airborne in turns, lots of fun in pow pillows. In the steeps (Alta chutes) they were great, quick to turn, easy to hop-turn when neccessary, good edge hold, etc.

When airing, I found the tails to be very soft: the ski has a very round flex vs. the medium shovel/stiff tail I'm used to. Any attempt to stay back-seat to avoid going over the front resulted in the tails flexing out from underneath me. The soft tails were also apparent if I got back seat (trying to scrub speed, etc.) As an earlier poster noted, it's forcing me to ski better, land more balanced etc. (And no, these definately aren't my go-to hucking ski. It's just nice to know how it's going to perform if you need to...)

Given this experience, I was a little dubious of how they'd perform on hardpack. Here, I was in for a surprise. Apparently the stiffness is through the body of the ski, and so on the hardpacked groomers (icy in spots) the skis just railed GS turns. They're definately not too quick edge to edge (combination of width underfoot and low rise on dynafit bindings) but they would lock into a turn and just rail. I spent the whole run with a huge grin on my face, panting from trying to keep up with the ski. For a ski that skis so small in pow, it runs really long on the groomers. I had a hard time beleiving it was the same ski.

In the end, I'm very happy with its eccentricity. Personally I could use a stiffer tail to have something to push against when I get in the back or for landing airs, but the combination of extreme light weight, quickness in pow/trees and long arc on hardpack more than make up for its not compensating for my weaknesses. For someone lighter than me, this could definately be a quiver of one. For bigger guys and gals, it's a great touring ski that can be fun on piste.

And with that, I'm going to stop writing about this ski. Waist deep TRs to come...

[f2f]

... At the same time, we have the opportunity to buy a press and gain more control over our destiny by making our own prototypes and lines of skis better than our current and past maufacturers have done.

i say buy the press if you can. you already make a very good product that people want, a press will give you the ability to improve rapidly on the current models and prototype new ones much faster!

just my ¢2, which i'm sure you don't need, having already figured this out

[eldereldo]

ee - I've seen you, I've seen photos of you skiing. You can handle the stiffs, trust me. The softs start getting made this week and that puts them two weeks out. If you want the skis faster, go stiff, eldo.

OK, I'm convinced, send me the stiffs (not to mention I hate waiting)

[splat]

Will do, eldo. The factory is in full swing now and I've shipped a shitload of stiffs in the last week and I have a steady stream arriving each week. 179 softs are getting pressed starting tomorrow and 188s are getting knocked out in their own press as well. So everything should be shipped out within 10 days.

[mday]

I'm seeing references to an initial grind and lots of wax for the 179 stiff bros. A search turns up alot of information on the factory tune (or lack thereof) on last year's initial run of 188s, but nothing in the way of official recommendation on the tuning of this year's models in general, and the 179s specifically. My 179s just arrived yesterday (thanks splat!), and I'm wondering what I should do in the way of an initial tune. The bases feel, hmmm... 'rougher' than my memory of some other recent purchases, and I don't see a discernible structure pattern like I had on my Mantra bases.

So, what's a happy new bro owner to do?
1. Light belt grind to open up pores?
2. Stone grind to impart some structure?
3. Just wax?

I also haven't seen any reports on this year's factory angles, are they 0/0 like last year? I was going to go with the 1/2 base/side bevel that I use on my other skis, but again, didn't know if there is a PMGear official recommendation to consider.

Finally, my search also turns up reports of detuning tips and tails. I've stopped detuning my shaped skis, and I don't notice them being particularly hooky. How far back (if at all) are people detuning their 179 Bros?

[flip]

I'm seeing references to an initial grind and lots of wax for the 179 stiff bros.

They come with zero factory tune. You need a full tune (belt, stone, edge and base bevel to 1/1, and tons of wax). Will run ~$50-65 at most shops, and is pretty much mandatory. Less if you bring a six pack to a shop that'll be psyched just to see a pair of bros.

[marshalolson]

They come with zero factory tune. You need a full tune (belt, stone, edge and base bevel to 1/1, and tons of wax). Will run ~$50-65 at most shops, and is pretty much mandatory. Less if you bring a six pack to a shop that'll be psyched just to see a pair of bros.

???

where do you get tunes???

on mtn in aspen???

a quality tune in these parts is 30-45ish.

[iggyskier]

pretty sure at only ski shop near me...

basic tune is $25
next tune is $50
next one up is $65

i think.....

but yeah. fucking ridiculous

[splat]

We'd have to charge another $50 to sell them tuned. As a one-man ski company, overseeing everything from production to shipping is [no, I'm not complaining...wait, yes, I am], I just don't have the time.

But the tune bevel can be from 0.5 to1 on base, 2 on side. I recommend anyone buying bindings to ask the shop if they'll give you a deal on a tune (yes, they'll whine loudly later, but that's after they agreed to do it). The factory does not stone them for us. We can't compare to Atomic, so we won't try.

No detune needed on the 179's.

Enjoy!

[mday]

We'd have to charge another $50 to sell them tuned. As a one-man ski company, overseeing everything from production to shipping is [no, I'm not complaining...wait, yes, I am], I just don't have the time.

Kind of what I thought after reading last year's threads and looking at them with my semi-trained eye, but thanks for the confirmation. Off to the search function to find a shop in Truckee or Mammoth (not sure where I'll be next) worthy of mounting my Freerides and tuning these.

[Andy_B]

Got my 179's today.

Thanks

[splat]

Kind of what I thought after reading last year's threads and looking at them with my semi-trained eye, but thanks for the confirmation. Off to the search function to find a shop in Truckee or Mammoth (not sure where I'll be next) worthy of mounting my Freerides and tuning these.

Dave at Bobos in Reno has the most hands-on experience with Bros and nothing but solid reviews for mounts on other skis by Reno locals. He won't bitch and does rock-solid work cause he has Bros, too.

[Trackhead]

I have reset the boot centerline at 993 mm from center of tip (latch hung over tip) straight back, no bends in tape, not conforming to curve of tip. .

So this is the line for us heavy 190lb folks making sissy turns all over the place?

I'll write a report on them sunday night. Will be mounting a pair tonight.

[splat]

I did a special sissy line for you at about 994.5 mm, TH.
You are now good for the 2,000 foot huck.


I'm amazed they made it there already. DHL used to be 8 days from Reno to SLC. Nice to see them ramping up.

[Trackhead]

I did a special sissy line for you at about 994.5 mm, TH.
You are now good for the 2,000 foot huck.


I'm amazed they made it there already. DHL used to be 8 days from Reno to SLC. Nice to see them ramping up.

Yeah, they are in a yellow truck, in SLC, should be on the door step tonight.

Thanks again for "Sissy Dimension Mounting Line".

[arild@optonline.net]

...I have reset the boot centerline at 993 mm from center of tip (latch hung over tip) straight back, no bends in tape, not conforming to curve of tip. I expect this minor adjustment back 2.4 mm to minimize that pitching feeling and maximize the float and feel of the Bros in the varying conditions we'll find on any mountain.

Centerline on mine is measured at 99.5 cm... --is this the "reset" position? (or is my tape slack).

Also, on telemarktips.com, the suggestion based on the 188s is to mount with teleboot midsole 1cm behind the line--does this apply to the 179s too?

[splat]

Arild - running on gut, I bumped it out from 39 inches (990.6 mm) to 39-1/8 inches (994.92 mm), a 4.3 mm move back. I was aiming for 994.5. I don't tele, but the Ttips guys seem to know what's up for tele mounts. The guy I had you contact got his info from TeleRob, and Rob knows his stuff.