What's the deal with Line Skis?

[bad_roo]

They weren't at SIA, don't seem to have a whole lot of new product in the pipeline, their binding system looks to have eaten the big one and they seem beset by warranty issues. Are they keeping their heads above water?

Any word from those a little more clued in than me?

[snowsprite]

I like Line skis, I ride them now. But a lot of people (me included) complain about the top sheet peeling & delamination. I was bummed to see they discontinued the Darksides, and I'm not fond of the graphic on the mothership now.

Also, their website is really difficult to navigate now and too much flash. I liked the old one much better.

Sprite

[ill-advised strategy]

did you already PM Jason?

you're going to get the Rascal King smackdown for dogging his dawg, brah.

[SkiJunky05]

I saw their lineup for next year (just in a brochure). The main addition to the skis was one called the Sir Francis Bacon (i think). It's a 182 slightly wider version of the Elizabeth. Same construction.

I don't remember any other "new" skis in the lineup. Just new graphics, small changes. They will be offereing 2 models of skiboards, as well.

[snowsprite]

Jason is really cool. And hopefully he will take my comments as they were intended...not as a dissing. (I have much love for my darksides, and am looking for new ones on ebay every week!)

Sprite

[cj001f]

They weren't at SIA

They'd announced that back in October

[Ubersheist]

I know they had production issues like crazy this year, and weren't able to deliver products to a whole lot of venders. The local ski shop near me ordered a few Prophet 130s, a bunch of Prophet 100s, and a bunch of other skis. They got some of thier twin tips, but that was it this year. The Prophets never showed up.

Just based on that, I'll bet they took a serious, serious financial hit this year.

[bad_roo]

UK ski shops seem to be reporting a bunch of lost Prophets too.

[cj001f]

UK ski shops seem to be reporting a bunch of lost Prophets too.

UK Record Shops, however, have a surplus of Lost Prophets

[bad_roo]

Start Something? Start by glueing the topsheets on properly.

[72Twenty]

My Dragons are cracking.

But they're old.

I used to want some Motherships.

I ate a Clif bar for breakfast.

Chocolate chip.

[skier0178]

I spoke with a friend who used to work with Line and he said that the bindings were such a flop it really killed the company. I guess they have not fullfilled orders that shops have put in this year and have yet to refund the shops their money. Many shops are deciding to drop them totally....

[mntlion]

I guess they have not fullfilled orders that shops have put in this year and have yet to refund the shops their money. Many shops are deciding to drop them totally....

usually shops get terms for stuff. They take delivery in sept, and have 30-90 days to pay before the company starts to charge interest....

Too bad about the bindings, nice to see new ideas, but too bad they what sucked (twice). Just get the rights to use rossi/look or salomon .....

some of the 4FRNT riders use salomons not the Vist/ ones.

[bio-smear]

The Line bindings were pretty good from an engineering standpoint IMO. I ran them for a few months last season. The adjustment was really easy, the quickmount was a great idea that I think we'll see again if the bigger binding manufacturers don't squash it. The release mechanism was the real innovation though. The heel could sideways release, supposedly helping prevent knee injuries sustained while skiing backwards with heavy toe pressure(like a switch landing.) Most modern bindings don't have a lateral heel release.

The bindings suffered from weight and reliability problems, other than that I thought they were great for a first year release, and I tried to support some American innovation. If they could have dumped the cast aluminum heelpiece and put some more metal in the parts that were breaking, they might have not had the breakage reputation. Can anybody here say they wouldn't like to be able to swap one binding between X number of skis? Makes adding to the quiver a little less expensive. You might think Jason Levinthal is dick for some of his behavior around here, but it still bums me out to see an American company floundering.

[runethechamp]

The Line bindings were pretty good from an engineering standpoint IMO. I ran them for a few months last season. The adjustment was really easy, the quickmount was a great idea that I think we'll see again if the bigger binding manufacturers don't squash it. The release mechanism was the real innovation though. The heel could sideways release, supposedly helping prevent knee injuries sustained while skiing backwards. Most modern bindings don't have a lateral heel release.

The bindings suffered from weight and reliability problems, other than that I thought they were great for a first year release, and I tried to support some American innovation. If they could have dumped the cast aluminum heelpiece and put some more metal in the parts that were breaking, they might have not had the breakage reputation. Can anybody here say they wouldn't like to be able to swap one binding between X number of skis? Makes adding to the quiver a little less expensive. You might think Jason Levinthal is dick for some of his behavior around here, but it still bums me out to see an American company floundering.

I think the binding swap is a good idea in theory, but if you swap bindings, wouldn't you have to adjust them avery time you swap? I can see it creating a lot of problems, but I'll admit I never really looked at the bindings, so I might be wrong.

[DBdude]

I've heard a story they were shipping seconds last fall to fill orders. The first year in China can be a killer. In hind site K2 did a pretty good job with their move.

[s.p.c]

f it. if you want to swap bindings so bad just throw in a bunch of heilicoils (sp?).

[snowninja]

Guys,
I totally understand how the recent happenings from Line can lead you to the above conclusions. I've attached 2 letters that we sent to dealer in the past few months that I hope will help you understand what we're up to. FYI we did inform all dealers this past summer we were't going to SIA, a totally sensible move for a company of our size, after ten years of attending we are realizing there are other ways to get things done. Although it may not come accross as this right now, we're actually solidifying ourselves for a stronger future. Hopefully this attachment thing works. While I'm at it, here's some video for your enjoyment http://www.lineskis.com/land/12/ad_0506_prophet_3
Thanks for the support,
Jason

Attachment 9852

Attachment 9853

[bio-smear]

I'd like to have that Prophet in the video with the clear topsheet. Sales might increase from that alone if it were available. There;s something about the look of natural wood, like on the Capitals that just looks dope.

[Schralper]

I LUV my Prophet 130's! 3 solid weeks of riding, front and backcountry.
Still in one piece.

[NW John Galt]

Challenges.

Challenges indeed, Levinthal.

[72Twenty]

What... is the deal..... with these?

[YB]

I also love my Prophet 130's, they are big fun. I wish Line would make a juniour version of that ski for my 8 year old. Maybe a 145-120-140 sidecut in a 140cm ski. Something like Icelantic's Scout but softer and with the good tip reflexed radius like on my 130's which is a good idea, prevents the big ski from being excessively hook-y.

[Darkside]

As Jason said, $60,000 or so for an SIA booth is just not worth it. If you look at the bike industry for example, a lot of brands are choosing to scale back their booths at Interbike and are moving to product introductions at their own facilities and traditional sales calls with the dealers.

I can say that the Line graphics for next year are even better, and the addition of a Prophet 90 (narrower Prophet 100, Metal Matrix, etc. $499 MAP), the Sir Francis Bacon (182cm version of the Elizabeth), the Chronic Blend (90mm waisted Chronic), and the Anthem (93mm waisted Invader).

[EstoBum]

Although Line is an american company, for the majority of the time they were producing their skis in quebec. I would guess that the transition from moving their production from quebec to china, along with the failure (sales wise) of the binding are the major reasons for them being at SIA and struggling to deliver product.

They are a good company little company, and although the production quality might not be the best in the industry, they're pretty good. I have some factory blems that have held up for 3or 4 years now. One bright spot is that they are VERY innovative, one example is the binding. Any company that is pushing out ideas at such a rate is good in my books.

Also does anyone notice how in alpine circles Line is refered to as a "weak" ski brand while in tele Karhu is one of the more popular brands? The skis are pretty much made in the same molds.