Comparing Skiing in the US/Canada vs. Alps

[bbirtle]

I'm curious what the board thinks about skiing in the US/Canada vs. skiing in Europe.

SNOW - I get the idea that over there (US/Canada) you not only get a fuckofalot more pow days, but the pow when it falls is far deeper. I just got done browsing today's trip reports and there's more waist deep pow in there just day of the type I get to ski here in Chamonix like three times a season IF i'm lucky. True?

INFRASTRUCTRE/ACCESS - Franz helped convinced me that it seems about the same, perhaps even slightly better over here. We've got giant places like Verbier, Les Trois Vallees, St. Anton where there's like 50 lifts and pretty endless terrain.

TERRAIN - I think on "skiable" terrain for the non-extreme crowd, it's about the same - you can find your 40-50 degree slopes, couloirs, and cliff drops in both places. In terms of scenery I think Europe has you well beat - aside from some pics I've seen of a few select places - Banff, North Cascades - (and really even then) the mountains here just seem bigger, steeper, scarier-looking, and more awe-inspiring. The fact there are glaciars - HUGE ones - somehow seals the deal on this one for me - somehow seems dry and lacking without them. I gladly spend all day skiing uphill even if I know the snow on the ski down will be shit here on a bluebird day with the Matterhorn in the background, but not sure if it would hold my interest as much over there...

AMBIENCE - Well you can't really compare the cafateria at Squaw Valley to having fondue at Zum See, can you? Still a lot of cultural interest over here, especially at the Swiss resorts.

OTHER - ?

Motivation here - trying to decide if I want to go back to the US for a ski season next winter... love it here, but getting sick of the lack of snow and want MORE POW...

[tomw_n]

Quality of service. When the shit hits the fan in Europe, say there's a fuckup with accomodation, liftpasses, whatever, you're lucky to get a Gallic shrug. Over here people seem more genuinely interested in helping you out. Or, should I say, they are paid to appear more genuinely interested in helping you out.

Incidentally I'm a brit living the winters over in UT. My girlfriend begged me to come to Cham this year with her but I couldn't say no to Wasangeles. I'll spend the summer in Cham, then next winter right back here.

[doofdoof]

I live in Australia, have skied Europe 4 times and Nth America 8 times.

For me the US and Canada generally have better coverage and more chance of snowfall while you are there. Europe is very streaky and patchy from my (admittedly limited) experience.

I love skiing in Europe for other reasons other than the snow - getting out of my comfort zone with language, the food, the booze, French chicks, Italian chicks, Poire Willem.

If you are just after snow the for the very general rankings are as follows:

1. US/Canada (5 trips with good snow from 8)
2. Japan (1 from 1)
3. Europe (0 from 4)
4. Daylight
5. NZ/Sth America
6. Australia

[bad_roo]

There are some great things about skiing in the US. The service, the snow reliability and quality in certain spots just can't be beaten.

Having said that, after skiing at La Grave and Chamonix, everything in the lower 48 just seems a bit Mickey Mouse and small. S'not often we get to point and laugh at you Yanks for your lack of quantity so

Brian, I think you're doing Europe a disservice. Areas like the Trois Vallees aren't fifty lifts, they're four times that big. The other thing about the Alps is that if the skiing isn't that great where you are, the complex meteorology of the region means that you can usually find a place that is.

[Buster Highmen]

The double hung meatloaf strikes a mean prose.

[MTT]

Have not Skied in Canada

Europe / US / South America
They are all differnt and all good.
I seem to see more issues with (People) in the US but that may be becuase I am usualy sking here.

Another flawed poll

[Lostinthetrees]

Skied Western NA and Western CH & FR Haute Alpes and 1 time in Italy. Never Canada. Never Alaska.
US citizen, living in Geneve 3 seasons.

I skipped the poll. agreed, flawed. too broadly stated.

"Best place to ski" ?!?
4 me, anywhere there is a knee-high blower pow day. Anywhere.


Lift Service: does not compare! to roughly quote a ski-star in "Sick Sense", "lift service in Europe doesn't just take you up the mtn, it puts you on TOP of the mtn." He nailed it!

Eye-candy: Tie. Every mtn range presents different aspects and unique characteristics. Europe no better than States. Tahoe area is full of eye-candy, for instance: Squaw or Heavenly. Wasatch nails it, too. edit: how could I forget the Tetons, Beartooths, and Bitteroots!

BackCountry: States hands-down. I really miss those wide-open spaces and National Forest lands. Alpes are heavily developed. Vacation chalet explosions.

FreeRide (Out of bounds). Europe hands down winner. No gates like States. Ropes are warnings of danger that can be ducked. It is your ass, so if you want to act like an idiot go ahead. Can exit and enter ski stations at will. Never lost my pass over here.

Only 1 rope/sign combo that I will not duck; yellow/black rope & checkered flag combo announces a closure due to avalanche danger.

Variety: Europe. Numerous smaller (and sometimes interconnected) communally-run ski stations offering cheap tickets and great skiing and no crowds. Contrast this experience to Steamboat which just plain dominates the area.

Snow... who can tell. It is cyclical. Most of you on this board are too young to remember. ~15+ years ago CO was having dry spells. I distinctly remember there was no snow to ski for Christmas 1 year. Snowfall did not arrive until after New Year's Day.

Europe's Weaknesses:
I am amazed how short the season is over here. ~90% of ski stations are lucky to open up (i.e with > 70% installations/pistes open) by the 20th of Dec and it is over by mid-March.

They lack, badly lack, the snow-making infrastructure.

Too many stations w/ southern exposure and too few northern aspects. Snow bakes in sun all day.

Lack of trees. Trees/forests along trails create shadows and cold zones to preserve the snow quality and lengthen season. edit: did I forget block the wind and capture snowfall? In Europe almost everything has been cut down, therefore ...the snow bakes in the sun all day.

[powslut]

I give my vote for US/Canada just for the open spaces. The lack of crowds and massive, remote backcountry are simply amazing. There's something wierd about being on a "remote" glacier in the alps in the springtime with 200 strangers. As for snowfall, I have skied just as much deep powder in a season in the Arlberg than I have in Western Canada.

[Kiki_TMK]

...i will be able to answer much better after my future trip to Canada in Feb... but me and my friend love Europe, its weather, food and girls

For sure, we expect to come there and find the powder we didn't see ever in Europe... even if we are lucky sometimes (not so often)
Here below a picture on St.Anton lovely woods, dec 2005

[TeleAl]

For me and my lifestyle, it is over here. Why?

Infrastructure:
I do not own a car, yet I ski a good many resorts annually.
While I must thank some maggots for rides (Ripz and LITT),
I could do all the places I go to via train. Imagine that.

Sleeping space is usually available cheaply (hostels are commonplace).
And speaking of cheap, how about them lift tickets???
70 CHF is the most expensive I've ever paid, while some US resorts are looking at 70 USD.
I find it much cheaper on this side. Ditto for my season pass.

Then there is the whole law and order thing.
Cops do not patrol the slopes, nor the woods.
Skiing off piste is not an offense.

As for the terrain and season, well, N. America might have more of what I prefer.
The season is longer, and the trees are higher.
Not to worry though, there is plenty of other infrastructure in place over here
for the change of seasons, like biking, swimming, climbing, hiking, etc.

As a mountain lifestyle, I will take the Alpes.
As a skiing lifestyle, I might consider N. America.

My 2 centimes.

[Anxious Mo-Fo]

There are some great things about skiing in the US. The service, the snow reliability and quality in certain spots just can't be beaten.

Having said that, after skiing at La Grave and Chamonix, everything in the lower 48 just seems a bit Mickey Mouse and small. S'not often we get to point and laugh at you Yanks for your lack of quantity so

Just back from a week in the Arlberg, and have to agree with Roo.

I also had the indignity of eating lunch with a bunch of Euros who had skied the US last year, and was forced to listen to them goof on that embarrassing "this mountain is unlike any other" sign at Jackson Hole. I can't ski half of the shit at JH, but the amount of shit-yer-pants terrain I see in the Alps makes me sit quietly in the corner.

[freshie247]

They both have their attributes, but I must say that while Europe has amazing & massive terrain , it's the quantity & quality of the girls that live & ski there that is truly dazzling!

[bbirtle]

Nice. Yeah the poll is quite broad but I was curious what people would do with it and what words they'd post along with it.

I answered Europe, but I'm still thinking to try a season over on the other side because I'm getting sick of dodging rocks mid-January and skiing windbuffed shit all the time. *Sigh*, however, i LOVE so much other things about Europe I guess you take the good with the bad....

Mostly agreed with everybody except on this point:

Eye-candy:Tie. Every mtn range presents different aspects and unique characteristics. Europe no better than States. Tahoe area is full of eye-candy, for instance: Squaw or Heavenly. Wasatch nails it, too.

Having hiked and skiied a lot of places Out West, when I got to Chamonix (and then to Grindlewald, Zermatt, ...) I was pretty blown away... the only place I've seen scenery like this was in Nepal. But here it's 100 times more accessible, comfortable, and safe. Sure I miss the trees and there definitely isn't a lake as beautiful as Tahoe over here, but honestly the scenery over here is one thing that really keeps me from moving back... when I see TR's on this board, I think "great snow" but "boring scenery"... wonder how much ski touring I'd really do over there without all the spiky, towering peaks with their chaotic ice flows... granted it's all subjective and if you're more impressed with green forests and mountain lakes you're gonna vote for the other side for sure...

[bbirtle]

Well the poll is pretty much dead it seems so here's the results:

US/Canada: 64.7%
Europe: 35.3%

The Europeans are equaly divided while the North Americans overwhelmingly think it's better on their side of the pond.

Not that I'm sure if my poll means much as people pointed out it's a pretty broad question to ask...

[KvtBeers]

Alps take it hands down, if you havnt been you dont know

[Buster Highmen]

Alps take it hands down, if you havnt been you dont know

So, if one has been and one disagrees, one is an idiot?
Frankly I thought the tortilla manifold made a pleasant segue to the defense cufflinks, especially when delicately frosted with a deconstructed version of The Oddessy. When flencing with blunt intelligence, it's best to consider the media and whether or not it's 'write only' or possibly admits to warmed unguents suitably inserted into doctrines of the Church, integrated across sets of nonzero measure almost everywhere.

[Buster Highmen]

I can't decide. Breakfast food or underwear? Schwartzschild radius or bicycle tires. Hot links or dank stinks? String theory or camembert electrique? Pouting poultry or oil additives? Singing vaginas do float well on a sheaf of unimodular algebraic varieties, if only the singularities could be removed and the winding numbers blending deftly with the arched eyebrow of some second rate opera diva. Forsooth, Ignatz! Yonder glimmers a dour teatime complete with stale biscuits, a feisty bridge group and Tom Jones humping the mike stand.

Where was Chuck Norris with a roundhouse kick to the teaset?

[Cliff Huckable]

The Alps aren't nearly as impressive as the Rockies. They've been chock full o' people for hundreds of years. They're so domesticated there's nothing really forbidding about them.

We got a flat? Let's stroll over to that cheese shop and ask for help.

Get a flat around Rogers Pass in the dead of winter and you could get dead...by cold, bear, wolverine, windigo - or a bigfoot/sasquatch might tickle you while sleep, whatever.

The Alps have a storybook quality to them, the Rockies have that real raw character.

That said, the Euro roads are way more fun to drive than NA roads. Less safe, but more fun.

[Rusty Nails]

The places are almost too big to compare. I'd still take the Chugach over any other place I have ever skied -- Alps, Carpathians, all over N. America and Argentina. I like DEEP snow and the scenery just in Alaska is mind-boggling.

Still, right now, I would rather spend next season in Europe. The food, the fun, the girls... plus it would be more of an adventure. So, I voted for Euro.

[schindlerpiste]

From my experience, North America wins by a narrow margin. (Although, I have never skiied France). Here's why:

SNOW: USA (Thank you, Utah and Colo.)
TREE SKIING: USA
BACK COUNTRY: USA
ATMOSPHERE: Europe (Austria and Italy)
GROOMERS and RACE DEVELOPMENT: Europe
SHEER BEAUTY: Europe (Dolimites)
FOOD: Europe (Austria)
ACCESSABILITY: Europe
VERTICAL: Europe
APRES: Europe

To me, it's mostly about the snow. No place compares to the Cottonwoods. Also, I think that the timber-line is too low in most of the Alps. There creates a lot of windblown/sunbaked and icy conditions. In Utah, when skiing above the timber-line (9500'), the pow. is much fluffier and, to me, more heavenly.
It really is a tough choice. However, after logging 300+ days in Austria and Utah, I prefer the Beehive State.

[Odin]

The places are almost too big to compare. I'd still take the Chugach over any other place I have ever skied -- Alps, Carpathians, all over N. America and Argentina. I like DEEP snow and the scenery just in Alaska is mind-boggling.

This man speaks the truth, on both accounts. Having been to Yurp, AK, Chile, Argentina, Canada, Lower 48. There just isn't another place quite like it.

HOWEVER. With the style of life you get in AK there are also alot of things missing. So, if you are going for ambiance, lifestyle, ease of access, consistant conditions, women, good music, chairlifts, sunshine, or others you would probably want to look elsewhere.

For mountains, scenery, terrain and powdah, there aren't many places that beat AK.

(although much like Rusty, I love the europe for soo many reasons that I am going to try to go back this year, and not get incarcerated this time!)

1. AK
2. Yurp
3. British Columbia

(and anyone who says that the alps aren't as impressive as the rockys needs to have their head examined.... and quickly!!!!)

[0BernhardFranz]

. I can't ski half of the shit at JH, but the amount of shit-yer-pants terrain I see in the Alps makes me sit quietly in the corner.[/QUOTE]
You ain´t even guessing it.

[Dam Skier]

Europe by the slightest margin.

BBrittle I would say go for the season in NA. Their are just to many good areas not to experience... Whistler, Canadian Rockies, Jackson, Wasatch, Cascades, and Colorado has a lot of good mountains(San Juans, Elks, 13000 peaks over 12000'?).

Snow consistency- NA, thigh deep again today in the backcountry and more on the way.

Mountains- Yrup, Big and bold with epic descents and sweet touring, mountaineering. Yea AK is close, but you need a heli, plane, or lots of hiking.

Infastructure and service- Yrup has lifts that put you in places like no NA lift sytem. Yea, it may not be as wild or raw as some NA backcountry areas, because of the roads and the tradition of alpinism that has been around Yrup for years, but that is what makes Yrup skiing so accesable and remmarkable. In Yrup you can take a lift hike as much or little as you want and ski 5000+ shots all over the place.

Apres, food, girls, atmospher, international scene, the mother land- Yrup

I am planning on Engelberg, Andermat, and Arlberg in March. Let it snow!

I also have been to Cham a number of times and want to spend the winter there with my wife and daughter before she starts school, she is two.

[Mybad!]

I have never been to Europe but I hear there are very few trees where you ski. Is this true? I prefer skiing in trees and around trees as opposed to just open and treeless skiing.

[Buster Highmen]

I loved skiing in Europe. My miniscule experience was limited to:
La Grave
Serre Chevalier
The Milky Way (mostly Claviere/Montgenevre and Sestriere)
Puy St. Vincent
Vars-Risoul
Mont Cenis
Val Frejus
Val Thorens
Alagna
Zermatt
Cervinia
Champoluc
Gressoney
La Thuile/La Rosiere

The serious alpine vistas are not often matched in North America. The food is never even approached, especially at those 'on mountain' refuges/refugios. And the magnitude of the lift served terrain is magnitudes more massive in Europe. Plus the sense of history, culture and tradition in the Alps is really great. Just can't find that in a happy meal.

But the girls with the biggest tits are not necessarily the best partners.

After getting sick there and not having a great time, we decided to stay on this continent and resume a road trip tradition. After a couple of tours through the Kootenays to the Monashees and revisiting old haunts in JH and MT, we decided we like it here better. Independent of the hassles of Yrup, the snow is more consistently better here, especially if you time it right: PNW for the early season and San Juans in March/April. Yes, the hills are smaller, the food generally sucks and the obnoxious Teutons may be supplanted by Texans, but one rarely continuously skis more than 1000 vertical feet (300 meters) in one shot anyway. So give me the dustbins, the out of the way places like Salmo, WH2O, Red, Discovery Basin, MSB, the Cascades, the Sangre de Cristos or the San Juans and Silverton. There's no place like home.