avi # 2 baker

[B-RAD]

I even ran into a group of 8 yesterday on elbo, with no gear, and no clue, they where attempting to drop beloow the traverse line not knowing that it cliffs out.

When we were finally able to get out of the gully we saw some people with out any gear at all. Needless to say, the avi victim told them repeatedly that his beacon just saved his life.

[Blurred]

This is just an amazing story. You guys not only saved a persons life, but also saved his whole family from their worst fear.


UNBELIEVABLE. You guys are heros for sure.
Someone call the local paper there and get these guys story in it already!


Also,Coreshot brings up a good point about that guys "partner".

[HyRUPz]

HEROES ... AWESOME!

Unfortunately and fortunately, practice makes perfect.

Hats off.

[killclimbz]

Nicely done guys. That is an absolutely amazing story. 8ft down? That is one lucky guy.

[ak_powder_monkey]

thats why we all should practice a lot strong work

[alto]

maybe the group with no gear was going for the early season assault on 'fly on the wall'.

Can someone please post a picture of this line?

[postman22]

just curious how does a post get moved?

[LeeLau]

phil - I think the mod can move a post. This thread got nominated to the Hall-of-Fame - so he moved it

[powstash]

Proof once again the human gene pool could use a little chlorine.

Indeed stupid people do stupid things. We all act imortal and irrational at times.

Although I don't know you I assume that you are a patroller at Baker and following an incident like this I realize how easy it can be for you to feel frustrated and pissed at the lemmings that venture into the BC without knowledge and caution.

However, it bums me out to see patrollers (once again assuming you are one) take the stance of superiority to other skiers around when an incident like this takes place and to toss comments like yours around. I know your comment is from frustration but I hope it doesn't lead you to mis-judge other skiers who frequent the BC in your neck of the woods.

[/thread hijack]

[BakerBoy]

Can someone please post a picture of this line?

Uh, it's not really technically a line. It requires several tarzan tree swings over chutes from pillows to pillows. It barely holds coastal snow. McConkey's wet dream.

Anybody who thinks they can stay out of the terrain trap in Oi Valley needs to have their head checked. There was a body buried there for over a year and a half because the top of the first knob broke 13 feet deep, and went clear thru that whole gully, leaving deposits over 30 feet deep in places. That slide killed another up by chair 8.

[truth]

Although I don't know you I assume that you are a patroller at Baker

However, it bums me out to see patrollers (once again assuming you are one) take the stance of superiority to other skiers around when an incident like this takes place and to toss comments like yours around. I know your comment is from frustration but I hope it doesn't lead you to mis-judge other skiers who frequent the BC in your neck of the woods.

[/thread hijack]

1300 posts and still don't have a clue JONG.

[粉末雪]

Proof once again the human gene pool could use a litle chlorine.

Practice what you preach.

[hop]

Indeed stupid people do stupid things. We all act imortal and irrational at times.

Although I don't know you I assume that you are a patroller at Baker and following an incident like this I realize how easy it can be for you to feel frustrated and pissed at the lemmings that venture into the BC without knowledge and caution.

However, it bums me out to see patrollers (once again assuming you are one) take the stance of superiority to other skiers around when an incident like this takes place and to toss comments like yours around. I know your comment is from frustration but I hope it doesn't lead you to mis-judge other skiers who frequent the BC in your neck of the woods.

[/thread hijack]

nope, he's not a patroller.

It's often easy to correctly judge skiers and boarders who frequent the BC in our neck of the woods as idiots because they ignore warning signs posted all over the place (including the back of the passes and tickets, etc), don't carry gear, and cop attitude when you approach them to tell them what they're doing wrong. When I encounter people w/o gear in the BC I make a practice of trying to explain nicely what it is they are doing wrong, what they could do to be safer, and why it's important... and only start pulling passes if they start getting all pissy at me. I probably am coming across as being a self-righteous prick (esp. since I'm NOT a patroller) but hey, if it helps make the area safer then I'm not worried about what they think of me. Call the patrol if you think I'm in the wrong and see what they say.
The hard part is when they have gear with them, because then you don't know if they have skills or just a membership to REI.

[Dirk Diggler]

So let me get this straight. You guys are NOT patrollers and you pull peoples passes? WTF are you thinking?

[bklyn]

So let me get this straight. You guys are NOT patrollers and you pull peoples passes? WTF are you thinking?

They're thinking they might not want to risk their lives digging these fools out later.

Yes - I wholeheartedly agree that a 'just looking at you' test should not warrant a pass pull. But OTOH - who do you think will be saving their asses when people don't show up for work? Who else might be put in danger because someone who didn't know better wanted to go for the 'fresh pow over there'
?

What's your solution?

[Dirk Diggler]

Tracy,
As someone who spends well over 100 days a year skiing and observing avalanche terrain in the CO backcountry, I am 100% in favor of personal responsibilty. Which means that you stay out of my face and I'll stay out of yours. If I think you are endangering me, I'll go somewhere else. But to be self righteous enough to think its my responsibilty to judge who and who shouldn't be out there is out of the question. Taking a lift ticket without authority is called stealing.

[bklyn]

I will defer to those who have more backcountry experience in this case, Dirk. If I ever stumble into a dangerous situation on your watch, I would appreciate and welcome a heads up. I won't be asking for your credentials while saying thank you.

[hop]

Tracy,
As someone who spends well over 100 days a year skiing and observing avalanche terrain in the CO backcountry, I am 100% in favor of personal responsibilty. Which means that you stay out of my face and I'll stay out of yours. If I think you are endangering me, I'll go somewhere else. But to be self righteous enough to think its my responsibilty to judge who and who shouldn't be out there is out of the question. Taking a lift ticket without authority is called stealing.

Yep, I don't want to have to dig them out later (although I will if I have to) and I certainly don't want them to have to dig me out either, esp. since they will be using their hands, skis, snowboard, or goggles to dig with.

First of all, there is a difference between pure BC (no lifts at all) and "sidecountry" where you can easily access stashes beyond the lifts. In the BC, yeah, go personal responsibility, but in "sidecountry" situations I'm not so game.
Second, I find it's pretty hard to just "go somewhere else" when you've hiked or skinned for an hour or whatever to get where you are in the first place. I can't count the number of times my party or another party is doing everything right (safe zones, avoiding sketchy slopes even if it means going farther and working harder to get there) and some morons jump in on top of us w/ no regard for any BC safety rules.

Pulling passes is something I do very rarely and only when it's justified. Once the pass is pulled, I notify patrol and tell them I'm sending some poachers to the office. They take a little test about the ski areas BC policy and if the offenders are nice about it they get their pass back. If they complain about some random guy (me or otherwise) pulling their pass for being OB w/o gear, the ski area will not have any sympathy for them.

I wonder how many more BC deaths it would take for Baker to close their boundaries altogether. They never had any bc policy before the Feb 1999 superslide that killed a few people.

[LeeLau]

Diggler - i wouldn't pull someones pass myself but Baker is a bit of a special case. Im sure the locals will explain

[Dirk Diggler]

No need to explain about the baker crew. Its pretty obvious. Tough guys. I still say taking a lift ticket is a good way to get a pole tip through the windpipe, but whatever. I just don't get the attitude.

MBS: "Here is a good deal for you stay away from baker or expect to get the shit kicked out of you. "

MBS: "Somebody should take your friend asside and kick the living shit out of him for his stupidity. I have no pateince for idiots in the backcountry, especially if they show no regard for others. If your friend tried to pull that shit out here, I gaurentee that he would never set foot on the mountain again."

[hop]

No need to explain about the baker crew. Its pretty obvious. Tough guys. I still say taking a lift ticket is a good way to get a pole tip through the windpipe, but whatever. I just don't get the attitude.

MBS: "Here is a good deal for you stay away from baker or expect to get the shit kicked out of you. "

MBS: "Somebody should take your friend asside and kick the living shit out of him for his stupidity. I have no pateince for idiots in the backcountry, especially if they show no regard for others. If your friend tried to pull that shit out here, I gaurentee that he would never set foot on the mountain again."

Aww, that's just MBS. His breath's worse than his bark, which is worse than his bite.

I'm not after the pole tip through the windpipe, nor am I out to get people. I don't recommend pulling passes for anyone that doesn't know the Howats and the patrollers personally, and I maybe pull 1 or 2 passes a year, tops. Most confrontations end with favorable "oh, sorry, I didn't know, thanks for telling me..." results, which is fine by me.

[Squirrel99]

No need to explain about the baker crew. Its pretty obvious. Tough guys. I still say taking a lift ticket is a good way to get a pole tip through the windpipe, but whatever. I just don't get the attitude.

MBS: "Here is a good deal for you stay away from baker or expect to get the shit kicked out of you. "

MBS: "Somebody should take your friend asside and kick the living shit out of him for his stupidity. I have no pateince for idiots in the backcountry, especially if they show no regard for others. If your friend tried to pull that shit out here, I gaurentee that he would never set foot on the mountain again."

I've skied many a seasons as a local both in CO, UT, and WA- and as harsh as it sounds- Hop is right on target. Baker is an exception (as Leelau has pointed out). These guys at Baker are not trying to act like dicks or "I'm holier than you" type thing- but the terrain that is so easily accessed at Baker is also extremely dangerous. If more and more people continue to put others in danger than eventually it may get mgmt to revisit their policy of allowing useage of the adjacent BC.

What these guys pretty much are saying is if a bad sitation occurs and those in question blatently ignore any advice given by a knowledgeable local- "I'm taking your ticket and we're going to talk to Patrol. If Patrol wants to give it back to you, that's their decision" But they are only getting the 'violaters' to Patrol for Patrol to then have that important discussion. Patrol randomly stops and audits people in the BC and pulls tix as the policy is enforced for everyone's safety. As harsh as it sounds, these guys are helping to save lives and get those in question to the proper authority. These guys don't want to police this. Like Hop said, it's only in one or two incidences when people don't listen to their advice, that they get Duncan (GM/Owner) or Patrol involved.

from Website- and also listed on all tickets & trail maps/signs:
MT. BAKER SKI AREA BACKCOUNTRY POLICY
If you leave the ski area boundary into the backcountry or re-enter the ski area from the backcountry, you must have all of the following or you will lose your ski area privileges:

1. Avalanche transceiver and demonstrated ability to use it
2. A partner
3. Shovel
4. Knowledge of the terrain and your ability.
5. Avalanche knowledge
6. Knowledge of local avalanche conditions;
• know this winter’s snowpack layers
• know the recent snowfall & type
• know current NW Avalanche Center forecast
• know today’s weather forecast (snowfall, temperature & visibility)
Probes and Handi-com radios are recommended.

VIOLATORS WILL BE EXPELLED FROM THE SKI AREA.

[PNWbrit]

Pulling passes is something I do very rarely and only when it's justified. Once the pass is pulled, I notify patrol and tell them I'm sending some poachers to the office. They take a little test about the ski areas BC policy and if the offenders are nice about it they get their pass back. If they complain about some random guy (me or otherwise) pulling their pass for being OB w/o gear, the ski area will not have any sympathy for them.

Hop - I'm stunned people actually allowed you to cut their pass off!

I've certainly had the desire to do it myself but it seems like it's making a dangerous situation even worse. Most gapers react badly enough to just the suggestion that they shouldn't be going somewhere or being asked if they're beeping.

[hop]

Hop - I'm stunned people actually allowed you to cut their pass off!

I've certainly had the desire to do it myself but it seems like it's making a dangerous situation even worse. Most gapers react badly enough to just the suggestion that they shouldn't be going somewhere or being asked if they're beeping.

Yep, sometimes I'm surprised too. But you'd be surprised how a "be informative and nice" approach works.

Once it gets to the pass pulling point I've usually already talked to patrollers (who may or may not be waiting at the bottom). At that point the offenders know just how in the wrong they were.

[LeeLau]

That's what I meant. I know Baker has an open boundaries policy. So does Crystal I guess. I don't know that I'd personally have the balls to cut someones pass but I'd be so pissed if some idiots jeopardized those open boundaries. OTOH - what can you do? There seems to be an endless supply of idiots