Tuning Newbie Questions

[This End Up]

I’m new to the ski maintenance thang. Got some good tips from Dipstick’s thread, but I’ve got two newbie questions:

1 - How do you find the existing (or original) base and side bevels? Is 0.5 typical for a base bevel?

2 - What happens when you have the wrong type of wax for the snow conditions? Like soft wax on cold-hard snow, and visa versa, hard wax on warm-wet snow. There is a lot of info about waxing correctly but not much about the consequences of screwing it up.

[m1e448]

There is chart of the manufacturers suggested edge bevels on tognar.com I do believe. As far as using the wrong wax, you'll go slow. If you are new to waxing, and just skiing for fun, you'll reap the benefits of using a toko or swix all temp wax, the Swix F4 hard wax ironed/scraped/and brushed is usually fast for recreatin purposes in all conditions. Don't forget that base structure etc, will take part in how well a ski glides. If you are completely new to waxing and want to use temp specific waxes, try the Toko 3 wax line, its easy to learn. if you ski a lot of pow, and it's really cold use some toko x cold powder or Swix CH3 every once and again mixed in with the wax of the day.

[bossass]

1deg and 1deg is pretty standard for most skis, unless they are race or carvers, or atomics...I think.

Try hot scraping your skis a bunch of times with cheap soft or semi-soft wax. Like 10 times. It will give you plenty of practice scraping and cure your bases so they are ready for a conditions based wax.

[H-wood]

1 - Base bevel is .5 to 1 degree regardless of ski. More base bevel makes the ski easier to pivot when it's flat, less grabby. Too much and the skis don't hook up until you crank them way over- feels sketchy and loose underfoot going straight or transitioning turn to turn. There's no such thing as a zero degree base bevel because the edges need to a little recessed from the base to stonegrind. You should only re-file the base bevel when the ski has been ground- it's easy to over do it, and the only way to get it back is grinding down the base material. In order to maintain an acute enough angle to bite into hard snow/ice, the side edge must also be beveled at least one degree. There's no reason to go more than that except for racing or carving skis (or E coast maybe).

2 - Cold wax on warm snow is just slow, but it works. Basically it's just a harder wax that is more slippery for hard, sharp snow crystals, while warm wax is soft with additives that make it slippery for a layer of water (which is what you're sliding on when the snow is closer to 32 degrees and has some water content). On ice, warm snow wax just gets scraped off after a run or two. But on really, cold, dry, crystally snow the sharp little points actually stick into soft wax and bring you to an immediate halt, and you have to scrape the snow crystals and the wax off before you can go anywhere. Cross-country skiers rub on really soft wax for uphill traction (instead of skins). Flouro wax (the expensive stuff) only works if there's some water content in the snow (really good on wetter snow)- nothing is super good for really cold, dry, crystally snow (although going to a finer pattern on the grind and buffing the shit out of the base does help).

super caffienated right now

[This End Up]

Thanks for the info and assistance.

The Tognar site has a lot of good info, nothing specific on individual manufactures, but a few tips on how to figure out the existing bevels.

As for practice, I've hot scraped my skis 3 times followed by 2 or 3 regular waxes with SWIX universal warm wax. Doing this on 5 pairs of skis has used up all my wax, 900 grams. Sounds like I'll need to apply a medium temperature wax just before going out.

[Below Zero]

The Tognar site has a lot of good info, nothing specific on individual manufactures, but a few tips on how to figure out the existing bevels.

You need to order their catalog. It will state the specifics in there.

[Core Shot]

To clarify edge tuning for a newbie:
to keep it simple, buy an edge guide, a file and a diamond stone.
Never file the base edge or the base - leave that for when you need a base grind from the pros.

Sharpen the side edges only - using the file and the diamond with the edge guide.
Use the diamond freehand lightly on the base edge to polish and remove burrs.

Yeah you can do your own base filing too, bu the guides are expensive and a nice stone grind is worth it.

and Tognar guide is the bible

[Core Shot]

As for bevel angles, fat skis tend to be 1 deg base to avoid catching an edge. Narrow skis are more often half degree.

Side bevel depends on base and how acute or sharp you want the steel edge to be..

90 degree edge (1 deg 1deg) is strongest but has less edge hold.
Not often used on East Coast ice.

89 degree edge (1 deg 2 deg) (or 0.5 deg 1.5 deg) is weaker if you hit rock but gives excellent grip on firm snow.
This is my preferred tune.

88 deg edge is for racers and ice skiers (1 deg 3 deg) with incredible edge hold but weak knife edge.

There are many variations once you throw in half degrees (0.5 deg 2 deg has an 88.5 deg angle).

Start by measuring your skis and see what you like. Decide on one standard tune (or 2) and then tell your base grinder to do it that way.
Buy the one or two edge guides for your preference and be set for DIY edge sharpening..

[Oslo T. Norway]

http://www.tognar.com/edge_tips_file...ard.html#angle

[m1e448]

If you want fast skis as soon as the touch the snow make sure you brush well. I like to have separate nylon and copper brushes, but if you are just going for a simple tune you can buy a half and half copper nylon. Horse hair and roto brushes are nice but not needed for rec skiing or home tuning.