BOA Love & Hate

[DoubleBogey]

It's the wrap (BOA) vs crush(buckles) theory. BOA allegedly provides comfort on the lower clog and performance on the upper shell. How convenient.

[herrgard]

I tried on the hawx ultra xtd in buckles and boa. The buckles version put pressure on my instep while flexing, the boa one did not. The boa version also felt more solid like a proper boot instead of a touring boot you could flex through.

I also tried on the alpha buckle boot and the shift alpha boa boot. With buckles version I had to crank the buckles to keep my foot from sliding front and back, with the boa one I lightly tightened the boa and foot is held firmly. Both salomon boots tried with my zipfit liner.

So the two boa boots I have tested both fit better than their buckle version. I don't know if it's the boa system or the shell design (or the combination). Not sure why you guys are so afraid of the possibility of getting a better fitting boot?

I bought the shift alpha boa and have two days in it so far. Great complement to the my raptors. No problems with the boa so far, but I don't see why there should be, it's just a cable and a knob.

[Skip Dooley]

I tried on the hawx ultra xtd in buckles and boa. The buckles version put pressure on my instep while flexing, the boa one did not. The boa version also felt more solid like a proper boot instead of a touring boot you could flex through.

I also tried on the alpha buckle boot and the shift alpha boa boot. With buckles version I had to crank the buckles to keep my foot from sliding front and back, with the boa one I lightly tightened the boa and foot is held firmly. Both salomon boots tried with my zipfit liner.

So the two boa boots I have tested both fit better than their buckle version. I don't know if it's the boa system or the shell design (or the combination). Not sure why you guys are so afraid of the possibility of getting a better fitting boot?

I bought the shift alpha boa and have two days in it so far. Great complement to the my raptors. No problems with the boa so far, but I don't see why there should be, it's just a cable and a knob.

Awesome they’re working for you. People are not mad that boa is an option. They’re concerned that buckles seem to be disappearing. This combined with the ski industry’s history of buzzword bs marketing to the lowest common denominator (gripwalk, rear entry, lights on skis, “vibration absorbing whateverthefuck”) is what has people concerned that maybe we should preserve some choice here..


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[mcski]

Exactly this.^

[tompietrowski]

Ultimately if there is a demand for buckle boots buckle boots will be produced. Brands are in business ultimately to make money which we do from selling products. So if there is demand for a product it will be produced. Currently we are not seeing that demand but who knows what will happen in the future.

[GoldenBC]

Everyone always says boa wasn’t wanted but ski boots have never been comfortable. Businesses exist with the sole purpose of trying to fit them better for people. People have always wanted more comfortable boots. Boa offers this improvement in comfort for a lot of people. This is why it has taken off so quickly.

But as for sales if you look at the walls of most shops buckle boots still dominate the wall and boa boots are the minority. So there are many more buckle than boa options for customers to buy but sell through data is consistently showing boa out performing buckle. Now it may be down to hype but honestly 90% of skiers don’t know anything about products. They simple buy what feels best.

How is boa more comfortable? Since we seem to be talking big box stores where bootfitters have no influence on the fitting and sale, it’s safe to assume the boots are all too big. Customers aren’t cranking down the buckle, nor the boa. They don’t look for retention. Like you said, they are looking for comfort. So, the customer puts on a boot that is too big and the shell shape and liner determines the comfort. Not the boa.

[tompietrowski]

The big box stores are not really into boa yet as the price points are still a bit above their range for the most part. Boa can help with the comfort of the lower shell for many people by reducing the peak pressure under the buckles. When you look at a pressure map of the foot in the same boot with buckles and boa the peak pressures are reduced by close to 15% and the pressure distribution is much more even. Many people will know that feeling of the instep buckle pushing into the top of the foot when tightened down hard. This is what boa can help with for many people. The more even pressure distribution will also help with power transfer from foot to shell. If more of the foot is in contact with shell then more force can be applied though the lower shell.

[shroom]

are they paying you on Saturday Tom?

[tompietrowski]

Education is not a Monday to Friday only thing

[GoldenBC]

Why do we want even pressure over the entire foot?

For boa to tighten and give even pressure on the foot, doesn’t that mean the shell has to be the same distance from the foot in all places? Well actually, since boa doesn’t tighten evenly, it would have to be that the shell is the right distance from the foot compared to how much boa closes it in that one specific area.

[tompietrowski]

It’s more to do with how badly buckles tighten. Buckles really only apply pressure directly under where they close and as I’m sure you know this can be a real issue for many people especially those with a higher instep. Boa can help reduce this pressure without loosing any closing force.

[Qilimanjaro]

I ski in a narrow boot and can't lock my 2nd buckle without cutting circulation. I just hook it and hope it doest lock from impact or ski without it. Would like to try boa for that reason alone

[FloridaSnow]

Here’s some actual data charts showing how the even pressure distribution of boa is better across the front of foot and leg as well as better pressure distribution across the bottom of the foot. More even pressure means less hot spots

[normie17]

Here’s some actual data charts showing how the even pressure distribution of boa is better across the front of foot and leg as well as better pressure distribution across the bottom of the foot. More even pressure means less hot spots

are pics not working? or is it just me

[DoubleBogey]

the forum is broke

[GoldenBC]

I ski in a narrow boot and can't lock my 2nd buckle without cutting circulation. I just hook it and hope it doest lock from impact or ski without it. Would like to try boa for that reason alone

If you can’t close the boot without cutting off your instep, Boa isn’t going to help you because your shell is too tight on your instep. Boa definitely tightens downwards, even if it also tightens inwards. I often have people comment on feeling pressure below the dial and below the 1st pulley. Try lengthening your buckle or ladder or grind your boot board.

[tompietrowski]

If you can’t close the boot without cutting off your instep, Boa isn’t going to help you because your shell is too tight on your instep. Boa definitely tightens downwards, even if it also tightens inwards. I often have people comment on feeling pressure below the dial and below the 1st pulley. Try lengthening your buckle or ladder or grind your boot board.

You are completely right that those are some methods to help relive the issue but this person is also a prime candidate for having a boa boot solve many of their issues. When buying a new boot they should certainly try a boa boot if there is a boot with an appropriate fit, which by next season there is a good chance there will be. It may not solve their problems and if that’s the case what you suggest will certainly help but bootfitters often forget to keep it simple and from everything we have seen this is a perfect example of where boa may resolve the issues without any additional work needed.

[teosickrider]

No BOA love here. Too bad for those Fischer RC4 Pro MV Dyn, they'd have been a blast without BOA.

[kootenayskier]

As a life long Raichle Flexon Comp /Full Tilt Classic (and presumably next to K2 is calling them now) troglodyte, I don’t need any convincing that cables are an effective way to distribute pressure around my anatomy as a boot flexes, I’m just not understanding how a bulky, vulnerable, awkward and slow to adjust dial provides anything that a simple low-profile micro adjustable buckle attached to a cable can’t do better, other than novelty that feeds hype that (for now) translates into sales. What am I missing?

[nickwm21]

That the boa hard points are pulleys…


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[Muggydude]

As someone who hasn’t really buckled their lower two buckles for the last 8 years, I support our new boa overlords

But seriously it’s funny how resistant to change folks are. I’m maybe skeptical of double boa, but makes plenty of sense for the lower boot to me.

Also anyone who isn’t skiing zipfits or intuitions is really leaving a lot on the table, your boots just don’t need to be buckled that tight if you have a liner that isn’t made of crappy squishy foam.

The best product/tech will eventually float to the surface of the market, particularly when the professional side of the sport is very gear-dependent. If the pro’s aren’t all using double boa boots, you want have to either

Reminds me of when people are skeptical of upsizing from 26” to 27.5” MTB tires 10-12 years ago. Sure the market eventually moved on to 29ers, but you don’t see anyone rocking 26” anymore either

[bennymac]

Reminds me of when people are skeptical of upsizing from 26” to 27.5” MTB tires 10-12 years ago. Sure the market eventually moved on to 29ers, but you don’t see anyone rocking 26” anymore either

paging Damian Sanders to the courtesy phone

[XXX-er]

DS is probably babbling about 26 in a " home " where they lock you in/ out of the elevator

the early 29's weren't the current 29's the design matured and i sure like that big 29 out front, I also like a 27.5 on the back it all works great

I don't see any reason to own a 26 but its still in the shed,

by the same token I own enough ski boots and intuition liners that I don't see any reason to own 2025 BOA either

but its interesting reading watching y'all hate on it, whether BOA or double BOA works or not who can say ?

BUT what i really wonder What was the processs that BOA became so ubiquitous it has its own web site ?

[plugboots]

Finally. Through much effort, my IG algorithm has produced only boobs, butts and BOA.

[jhyatt]

I didn't read the entire thread, but I have scarpa f1 for touring and they have had a boa for many years. Mine are the red f80 from 2018.
People see it and say wow how do you like the boa??
So is boa lighter? For the clog of a touring boot, I like being able to loosen it for up and tighten for down.
I do worry about it failing on a tour but I could survive that.
I agree that boa is not better than buckles but I appreciate people trying new things because what if it turned out to be amazing?
What's the over under on a boa Telemark boot?