Heating system for new house construction in Colorado

[Tele 'til You're Smelly]

Heat pump? Property has natural gas so that's the other option. I'd like to do a heat pump for climate change considerations (our electric co-op is on a good path to decarbonization, and I'll have PV panels to the extent that's relevant), but I don't want to be a sucker paying for supplemental standard electric heat if the climate here can't really support a heat pump in the cold months. Don't need A/C.

And yes house will be designed with passive solar as a primary design feature (with big eaves to keep sun out in summer).

Thanks in advance-

[Tamburello Rouge]

If it's new construction I would use a heat pump connected to a multi-zone radiant in-floor heating system. My house is a 1700 sq. ft., slab-on-grade single story and we have three zones. Make sure you size your PV system appropriately. You also might want to consider battery backup to get you through the night since that's when the heater will be running the most.

[singlesline]

Where in Colorado? Some parts of CO are easily within the range of a good low temp air-source heat pump. You'll start to lose efficiency but will still be well above resistive heat. Other parts are cold enough that you're going to be in trouble in the winter nights and relying on supplemental heat (although you CAN run natural gas supplemental heat rather than electric).


You say you don't need A/C, but nice thing about heat pump is it is already there if you want it for a few days a year during a heat wave or to keep things cool when you don't want to open your windows because of wildfire smoke.

One thing that I've been getting used to with my heat pump is that the output air temps are a lot lower than a traditional furnace (where the air comes out HOT). Plenty warm to keep the house heated, but it is not very fast to change temps. I'd normally let the house cool off a fair amount at night...but with the heat pump it has to work non-stop for several hours to raise the temp back up in the morning (unless I allow it to run supplemental heat). Combine that with a well insulated new house that will take a long time to cool down in the evening, and it is not ideal. They mean it when they say heat pumps are "set it and forget it"...system seems much happier maintaining a stable temp or only allowing a 2-3 degree drop at night.

[dan_pdx]

I'm in PDX, so very different conditions than you, but we just went with a heat pump and natural gas supplemental heat when we replaced our old NG furnace in existing construction. We're ducted and needed a new blower unit anyway; using a new natural gas furnace as the blower for the heat pump turned out to not add much cost vs. just a blower.

I like having the natural gas optionfor two reasons. First, if electricity gets insanely expensive, we can just run gas. Second, if there's a power outage, we can run the natural gas furnace off a generator and still heat the house.

[Core Shot]

Second the motion on Nat gas backup.

Any heat pump struggles at freezing temps. And yes. The air coming out it’s never hot.

Even a Nat gas hookup in the main living area for a fireplace would make sense. Plus a gas fireplace can be manually fired for power outages.

[adrenalated]

We have a new construction home at 7100' in southwestern Colorado. The house was originally designed and built with traditional propane forced air heat and a standard A/C unit (the house was new when we bought it but not built for us). The insulation is IMO below average for modern construction and the house is not particularly well sealed. We have good sun exposure and more of a high desert climate than a mountain climate.

Last year I had the A/C unit pulled and replaced it with a mid-quality central heat pump (Bosch SEER 20), coinciding with a solar installation. We left the furnace in place to act as the air handler and supplemental heat. The heat pump is rated to produce heat down to -10F ambient. The HVAC contractor recommended setting the changeover point to propane at +10F.

We've overall been very happy. I did find that I needed to bump the changeover point to supplemental up to +15F - our house is drafty enough that if the wind was blowing hard, the heat pump had trouble keeping up. As noted above, the heat pump does not blow as hot as a furnace, even more so the colder it is outside. The combo of solar and heat pump saves us a LOT of money on our monthly utility bills compared to running fully on propane. Granted it's been pretty warm this year but in the last 30 days my aux heat has kicked in for less than 5hr of runtime. We do have a vaulted great room with a very large air volume that's pretty slow to warm up and we eventually want to add a wood burning stove (both for ambience and to help kickstart warming that space).

I think it does depend on what type of overall construction strategy you're going with as well as where specifically the house is. Much colder climate than mine and it might not make as much sense. If you're going for a really airtight, highly insulated construction, forced air might not be ideal. My parents built a ICF, extremely airtight house and went with hot water in floor heat that works great. Definitely some options but I think in the milder areas of Colorado with traditional stick built construction, the heat pump is a great option.

[Mazderati]

Any heat pump struggles at freezing temps.

This is not true. Mitsubishi H2i are designed specifically for cold climates.

[Tele 'til You're Smelly]

thanks all so far- it's in Durango, in-town (6,500'). You can do a heat pump with gas supplemental in the same system? Can you do in-floor with that- hydronically? We are planning on having gas hooked up for heat stove in living room- have one now and love it.

[adrenalated]

thanks all so far- it's in Durango, in-town (6,500'). You can do a heat pump with gas supplemental in the same system? Can you do in-floor with that- hydronically? We are planning on having gas hooked up for heat stove in living room- have one now and love it.

I'm Dolores. In town Durango would handle a heat pump just fine.

I have no idea about in-floor options. For forced air, the heat pump overall system is just like A/C. You have an outdoor unit (compressor), an indoor heat exchanger (evaporator coils), and some sort of air handler (blower) that circulates the air. The two main ways that you can do supplemental heat are 1) electric resistance strip heating in the coil for an all electric setup or 2) a normal gas-fired furnace as the blower/air handler. We have the latter.

[Hopeless Sinner]

"We don't need A/C here" - famous last words. Obviously the house can get too hot on hot days, but there is also pollen and smoke to deal with. I'm at 6200' and use AC all the time, but we face west and can roast late afternoons in August and September.

We've had 3 mild smoke years and 2 really bad smoke years in the past 5. It also seems like the wx is tending towards more cloudy and humid days in June and July and temps don't seem to drop after dark nearly as much as in the past.

[EWG]

thanks all so far- it's in Durango, in-town (6,500'). You can do a heat pump with gas supplemental in the same system? Can you do in-floor with that- hydronically? We are planning on having gas hooked up for heat stove in living room- have one now and love it.

If you get a cold weather rated heat pump you will be fine. In the last 10 years technology has progressed rapidly. No need for supplemental heat. To put in a full gas backup system is essentially paying for two heat plants, which is crazy. If you are nervous run electrical wires to places where future radiant baseboard could be installed as a supplement and make sure you have space on the electrical panel for those circuits.

First place to spend your money is the envelope. Seal it very well. Have the builder caulk the crap out of it. Use an inch of flash fill foam insulation to further seal it, then you can do fiberglass on top of that as long as you have 6" studs. Or consider Aerobarrier, which is kind of like fix a flat for a house. It seals all the holes that the contractor is supposed to caulk Should cost about 800-1500 for a house. It works incredibly well and is very much worth it. If your house is really well sealed any heat plant will have a much easier time keeping up. However, will all the sealing (caulking or aerobarrier) you need to make sure you have fresh air coming in through a heat exchanger.

If you do in-floor you have to heat up water. That's less efficient than an air to air heat pump. Water heaters can be done with gas, electric or heat pump. See comments below about water heating. I'm not sure I'd run in floor heat with a heat pump water heater, but it can be done I believe. it's just that heat pump water heaters exhaust cold air, which cools the house it's supposed to warm. They have an onboard electric resistance backup and in winter that usually is the primary heat source they use when they are heating the house. Less of a concern when the only water they are heating is for bathing and cooking.

Also, if you are going to eliminate all gas to the house then you need to figure out how to cook and how to heat your water. Electric resistance water heaters work great, cost a lot of electricity, and aren't super efficient. But they are cheap. Get one that is essentially never ending hot water. Your option is a heat pump water heater. They also work great, have durability issues though, are noisy, and output cold air. So if you use one put it in it's own closet.

For cooking it's induction or electric. I'd love an induction cooktop but many folks are less thrilled by them.

Obviously, this is general info and may or may not apply to your exact situation, which I am obviously not familiar with.

Hope that helps.

[dan_pdx]

The backup to our backup heat - a natural gas fireplace from (?) maybe the 30s or so. It doesn't yield much heat and I'm mindful of poisoning ourselves with combustion byproducts even though it's properly attached to the chimney, but it does look cool as shit when we turn it on. Best CL find ever.

[frorider]

Have you considered BTC mining?

[goldenboy]

No A/C in Durango? I would think that was downright necessary there

[Shredhead]

We have a Lochivar Boiler for radiant heat and hot water in Snowmass @8200ft.
Three years ago we put in Mitsubishi heat pumps with AC, after a Smokey summer. We actually use the heat pump every morning to take off the chill.

[Kevo]

Get AC.

[neufox47]

[emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji637][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji637][emoji637][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]]This is not true. Mitsubishi H[emoji638]i are designed specifically for cold climates.

He’s a dinosaur who believes in chemtrails, weather control and [emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji637][emoji637] was controlled explosions.

[easyrdr]

I live in Durango, if I didn’t have A/C I would have left after the first summer.

[Foggy_Goggles]

I can't speak to heat pumps or A/C but I do know about radiant.

If you can afford/get it in your budget, do it. No staple up bullshit. In slab and gypcrete for the framed floors. It is such nice liveable heat. So much less dust. Just lay your ski clothes out on the floor to dry and warm up. Unlimited zone control. Like you can have the kitchen and living room at 68, the bathroom at 70 and the bedroom at 66. A nice gas burning fireplace in the main living spaces is sweet.

I'd say the only downside is it is slow to respond (intentionally, that's now thermal masses work) so not great for people that are always going for the thermostat and if it is a second home you need to thing ahead.

Here in Grand County, I haven't seen a heat pump yet. The builds I work on don't tend to be the Greenest Customers what with 5k sq. ft. second homes out at the golf coarse. My house is moderate by mountain standards and my gas bill averages less that $100/month for heat, hot water and stove.

Good design and execution is going to have a huge impact on energy efficiency. The house I'm working on now holds temp at -25f with just the temp furnace running overnight.

I just bring it up because I thing the conversation move to things that can be retrofit but in new construction you have lots of options.

[Core Shot]

This is not true. Mitsubishi H2i are designed specifically for cold climates.

Love my splits for shoulder season and for the ac. But if it’s below zero gas is more better

https://learnmetrics.com/heat-pump-e...erature-graph/

Read something sciencey

I am a fan of both.

As said above, heat pumps with Nat gas fireplace is the win.

[::: :::]

For cooking it's induction or electric. I'd love an induction cooktop but many folks are less thrilled by them.

Agree with most of your post except this ^^^

Induction is worlds different from electric resistance cooking (glass or coil)
Safer by far & way more tunable for cooking temps. And ultimately cheaper on energy via less wasted heat.

I don’t know who “many folks” are, but they are very poorly informed or making shit up

The requirement of using ferromagnetic pots & pans is a minor cost in the cooking life, and it doesn’t mean anyone has to purchase expensive cooking pots/pans.

[EWG]

Agree with most of your post except this ^^^

Induction is worlds different from electric resistance cooking (glass or coil)
Safer by far & way more tunable for cooking temps. And ultimately cheaper on energy via less wasted heat.

I don’t know who “many folks” are, but they are very poorly informed or making shit up

The requirement of using ferromagnetic pots & pans is a minor cost in the cooking life, and it doesn’t mean anyone has to purchase expensive cooking pots/pans.

I'm with ya. Like I said, I'd love it, and I'd trade my gas top for induction tomorrow. Some folks aren't feeling it though - I have a family member, as an example, who just got one in his rental while he waits for his house to be rebuilt (garage fire - so fun) and is not a fan it. Says it's less controllable, which I can't really understand. Maybe he's just doing it wrong. But I've heard it as feedback in other situations like multi-family rentals. Maybe it's just unfamiliar to people?

[warthog]

If it's new construction I would use a heat pump connected to a multi-zone radiant in-floor heating system. My house is a 1700 sq. ft., slab-on-grade single story and we have three zones. Make sure you size your PV system appropriately. You also might want to consider battery backup to get you through the night since that's when the heater will be running the most.

This

[warthog]

I can't speak to heat pumps or A/C but I do know about radiant.

If you can afford/get it in your budget, do it. No staple up bullshit. In slab and gypcrete for the framed floors. It is such nice liveable heat. So much less dust. Just lay your ski clothes out on the floor to dry and warm up. Unlimited zone control. Like you can have the kitchen and living room at 68, the bathroom at 70 and the bedroom at 66. A nice gas burning fireplace in the main living spaces is sweet.

I'd say the only downside is it is slow to respond (intentionally, that's now thermal masses work) so not great for people that are always going for the thermostat and if it is a second home you need to thing ahead.

Here in Grand County, I haven't seen a heat pump yet. The builds I work on don't tend to be the Greenest Customers what with 5k sq. ft. second homes out at the golf coarse. My house is moderate by mountain standards and my gas bill averages less that $100/month for heat, hot water and stove.

Good design and execution is going to have a huge impact on energy efficiency. The house I'm working on now holds temp at -25f with just the temp furnace running overnight.

I just bring it up because I thing the conversation move to things that can be retrofit but in new construction you have lots of options.

If it is a 2nd home, install a Z wave Thermostat (s) and turn it on a few hours before you arrive.

[alpinevibes]

I'm with ya. Like I said, I'd love it, and I'd trade my gas top for induction tomorrow. Some folks aren't feeling it though - I have a family member, as an example, who just got one in his rental while he waits for his house to be rebuilt (garage fire - so fun) and is not a fan it. Says it's less controllable, which I can't really understand. Maybe he's just doing it wrong. But I've heard it as feedback in other situations like multi-family rentals. Maybe it's just unfamiliar to people?

We love our induction range, but it did take the better part of a year to really figure out managing the power and how fast it changes temp in the pan and how fast pan temp decreases in some cases.

We're at 8000' in Aspen and I've been trying to get a minisplit setup for a couple years; there are lots and lots of heat pumps and electrification happening in our valley. Cold temps don't seem to be an issue for folks here and I don't know of anyone, specifically, whose purposefully keeping or using NG backup. I can't imagine a summer in Durango without some A/C supplement, but we're heat-adverse Washingtonians.