Is the US going to Annex Canada? by force? or just destroy the Canadian Econ for fun

[bennymac]

It’s akin to Obama saying “we need to band together with Trump and the GOP”

[Stuntmonkey]

Nah, it’s akin to Reagan saying that. That’s the amount of damage Harper did to Canada.


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[XXX-er]

harper canceled a lot of shit much like Trump is doing now, he was an asshole the progressive conservative party disolved in 2003 so what you ended up with is the conservatie/ appliance party so they were whacko nut jobs

If harper had not been defeated by the JT Canada would look a lot more like America which is of course disgusting SO people complain about JT but OTOH we could have had Harper eh

[bennymac]

I thought my point was clear: a former leader from the end of the political spectrum that is not currently in power is publicly stating that the behavior of the current leader is a good thing and is welcomed - seems like a rarity in todays world.

I wasn’t literally saying Harper and Obama are similar.

[skiballs]

If harper had not been defeated by the JT Canada would look a lot more like America which is of course disgusting eh

You probably shouldn’t take that disgusting American company pension.


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[liv2ski]

Why not? He earned it in Canada. Stop being such a douche as nobody cares what you think.

[DougW]

The problem with the Rivers is not just the slow and extended delivery schedule given they need to replace the retired Iroquois, it is that they are also supposed to replace Halifax to some extent, and they come out doing a subpar job of ASW and a subpar job of being a DDG (air defense). It is going to have one helicopter and 24 VLS tubes. Anemic ASW and anemic SAM magazine. Is the slow delivery rate about yard capability? I guess it is budgetary constraints, but I could be wrong. I think cspringsposer and I have pointed out that Canada has the opportunity to boost defense spending toward 2% by spending at home via increasing industrial capacity in shipbuilding in auxiliaries like minesweepers and icebreakers that would be very important to NATO and the US as well as Canada. I am sorry that this is upsetting for Mrs.W You know I love you guys!

quote worked! The problem with the halifax yard is thats its tiny only one ship can be worked on at a time. Until that ship is launched not much can be done on the next. For the CPF program or HMCS Halifax class of 12 - modules and then supper modules were put together at grade and then lowered into the dry dock. I think they were 300- 500 ton each and there was a lot of outfitting work done. So there was the room in Saint john to work on several ships all at the same time. I don't think its $ its that yard cannot produce any faster.

[cspringsposer]

Grinch - I stand by my no chance given current circumstances there is any chance of an invasion statement. I was at HQ NORAD/NORTHCOM today and the Canadian flag is still flying out front and the scores of Canadians are still integrated into the command as they have always been. With the exception of having to now send troops to the southern border, it is business as usual and absolutely zero change in the mil-mil relationship. I am 100% certain the NORTHCOM Commander would refuse any order to initiate an unprovoked attack on Canada. I am also somewhat familiar with the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Gen Brown, and am confident he would refuse as well. Gen Brown isn't Gen Miley, but he is an honorable man with a deep appreciation for the Allies that have stood by and bled with us when we needed them. I am so sorry that people in Canada are dealing with stress because our Cheeto in Chief wants to run his mouth and try to play tough guy. It is wrong and it is a complete betrayal of one of our closest allies. I can tell you with a very high level of confidence that any order to invade Canada will be met with refusals, resignations and internal resistance. The Cheeto might be a dishonorable, lying POS, but the majority of the military and career civilian leadership in the DoD are not.As far as Gaza, to Trump, those are just a bunch of brown people occupying land that Bibi Netanyahu promised he could build his Trump-Med resort on.

[LHutz Esq]

The problem with the Rivers is not just the slow and extended delivery schedule given they need to replace the retired Iroquois, it is that they are also supposed to replace Halifax to some extent, and they come out doing a subpar job of ASW and a subpar job of being a DDG (air defense). It is going to have one helicopter and 24 VLS tubes. Anemic ASW and anemic SAM magazine. Is the slow delivery rate about yard capability? I guess it is budgetary constraints, but I could be wrong. I think cspringsposer and I have pointed out that Canada has the opportunity to boost defense spending toward 2% by spending at home via increasing industrial capacity in shipbuilding in auxiliaries like minesweepers and icebreakers that would be very important to NATO and the US as well as Canada. I am sorry that this is upsetting for Mrs.W You know I love you guys!

I think any extra funds spent on the Canadian military should be done looking forward and not back. If Russia was our biggest threat, yes we should build icebreakers and helicopters and the like to protect the artic. But with the Putin/Trump partnership swinging into full effect, our largest threat is now from the South. Russian will allow the US unfettered access to Canada while it suits their purpose.
Ukraine has taught us a great deal about fighting a navel battle without ships.
We need to prepare in case the American people can't contain what looks to the outside world as a downfall of their democracty and the rise of a fascist government. Sorry to all my American family and friends - but it looks to a lot of folks that you all collectively slept through history class.- I know, not all, but enough to be scary. There were anti-nazi protests in Germany back in the '30s
Any such conflict will be mean the end to both countries to be certain. But Canada should prepare for it in any event.
Some that I have read have suggested that to get us the extra .4 to make it to 2% it is $10-15b. That money should be spent putting boots on the ground in Ukraine to learn all we can about how to fight an assymetrical war. Building a fleet of drones (land, air and sea), putting Canadians and anti-fascist sympathisers (or making arrangements with those that are already there) in important positions with respect to US infrastructure.
Until now our military spend has focused on our role as an ally in NATO, peace keeping in partnership with the UN and the like. For example we have units that can only be deployed with NATO heavy lift capacity from other countries. However, those units are well trained and equiped. The world is changing, and we need to adjust our thinking along with it.
If the American people do decide that oligarchs, Russia and China are the real enemies of peace and proseperity, we will still be able to use those assets in the traditional role of protecting those that need it alongside our friends.

[summit]

Americans don't have a culture nor history of cult of personality dictatorships. This one will last at most 4 years. Odds are he gets impeached or dies of a heart attack before his term is up.

[danmelon]

saw this on fb, so prob fake news and needs fact checks, but interesting lolol

In 1923 Adolf Hitler incited an insurrection against the German government. He was tried, given a slap on the wrist, and became a convicted felon. Despite being treated charitably by the judge, Hitler claimed the trial was political persecution and successfully portrayed himself as a victim of the “corrupt" Social Democrats.

Hitler cleverly positioned himself as the voice of the "common man," railing against the "elites," cultural "degeneracy," and the establishment, who he all labeled as "Marxists." He claimed the education system was indoctrinating children to hate Germany, and promised to return Germany to greatness.

To solidify his base, Hitler masterfully scapegoated minorities for the nation's problems, exploiting societal divisions with an "us vs. them" narrative. Many Germans took the bait. Hitler's Nazi Party continued to gain traction, until he became Chancellor in 1933.

Hitler appointed German oligarchs as his economic advisors. He proceeded to privatize government run utilities, solidifying support of the economic elite.
With the working class divided along cultural and ethnic lines, the Nazis shut down workers unions and abolished strikes.

Progressives and trade unionists were imprisoned and sent to concentration camps. Corporate profits skyrocketed while working class Germans lived paycheck to paycheck.
Hitler, who became extremely wealthy while in office, knew he and his clan of oligarchs could get away with the scam if they constantly had an "enemy within" to blame while the corporatocracy robbed the country blind.

An easy target was one of the smallest minorities. Hitler removed birthright citizenship rights of Jews and started rounding them up for mass deportations.
The German press under Nazi rule highlighted (often fake) instances of violence by Jews to convince the public that Jewish immigrants were a danger to the "real Germans."
Hitler wasted no time dismantling democratic institutions. Loyalty wasn't just encouraged; it was demanded. Opponents were silenced. Media that dared to question him were vilified as "the enemy" and "Marxists."

Hitler's Propaganda Minister, Joseph Goebbels, bragged about how the Nazis were able to intimidate the media into giving them favorable coverage, and didn't need to give direct orders.
The Nazi regime and its followers collected all books they saw as promoting "degeneracy" or what would be considered "woke" today, and burned them in large bonfires. They also burned books that promoted class consciousness.

Berlin had a thriving gay community in the 1920s, and even had the first transgender clinic. The Nazis burned it to the ground. LGBTQ were sent to concentration camps and forced to wear triangle badges. Many were killed in the Holocaust.

The Nazis also saw manhood as under threat by independent women who didn't rely on men. In 1934, Hitler proclaimed, “A women’s world is her husband, her family, her children, her house." Laws that had protected women's rights were repealed and new laws were introduced to restrict women to the home and in their roles as wives and mothers.

Reproductive rights were severely rolled back, and doctors who performed abortions could face the death penalty.

Despite all of this, the German people didn't have a similar historical parallel to look upon as a warning.

Most Germans never acted like the sky was falling.

Most just went along with their lives as usual, until many of their lives were snuffed out. By the time Hitler's reign was forced to an end by the Allied Powers, 11 million people were murdered in the Holocaust, and 70-85 million were killed in WW2.

LOL

[Bunion 2020]

Hegseth just threw Ukraine under the bus.

The Latest: Hegseth says Ukraine must abandon hope of restoring pre-war borders Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth has announced a major shift in U.S. policy on Ukraine: The way forward, he told allies in Brussels, is to abandon the “illusory goal” of a return to Ukraine's pre-2014 borders and prepare for a negotiated settlement with Russia, backed up with an international force that won't include U.S. troops

[Trackhead]

^^^^ I mean, does anyone really think we're going to push Putin back to pre-2014 borders? He's been sitting on that territory for a decade.

[XXX-er]

" You probably shouldn’t take that disgusting American company pension. "

It was actualy IBM CANADA, IBM is all over the world it was even in germany dduring WWII but what does that have to do some stupid fucking american facist trying to make canada the 51state ?

Bigger than the tarrifs which come and go, which trump negotiated 4 yr ago is some arrogant yankee telling Canada its going to be the 51st state,

telling denmark he wants greenland, telling panama he wants the canal and trying to rename the gulf of mexico so fuck america and fuck you

and telling me not to spend my pension

fuck you and fuck America

[XXX-er]

eh

[mcski]

Americans don't have a culture nor history of cult of personality dictatorships. This one will last at most 4 years. Odds are he gets impeached or dies of a heart attack before his term is up.

We absolutely have a history of cult of personality, just not on the scale of Trump or a dictatorship. Lots of newly minted Americans wanted to make Washington our king. We have a weird fetish for royalty and have never stopped obsessing about it as evidenced by our endless royal family drama watching

There is zero chance he is getting impeached. Zero. His party isn’t even pushing back on basic stuff. The only way he could get impeached is a landslide shift in Congress at the midterms. Landslide. Not just getting the majority. I don’t see that happening given the current gerrymandering of districts.

In addition, their stated goal is to emulate the “demorcracy” model of Orbon in Hungary. If he bulldozes over court orders and they get that model entrenched it’s game over and fake democracy where oppo votes don’t count for shit for generations.

Everything is resting on the courts now and the unlikely result of the DJT admin following its decisions faithfully

[J. Barron DeJong]

^^^^ I mean, does anyone really think we're going to push Putin back to pre-2014 borders? He's been sitting on that territory for a decade.

I think the bigger problem for Ukraine is that he said they wouldn't join NATO. So no protection for them to stop Putin's next invasion.

[Cisco Kid]

danmelon - My wifes cousin was in the SS and frowm what her family has said plus my own study of the era, that summary is correct. Fk.

[neckdeep]

Uh, yeah, we have a huge history of personality cult behavior. It's called fundamentalist christianity. Around 30% of Americans were already in a cult, basically. All that's happened is a little bit of transference.

[XXX-er]

" My wifes cousin was in the SS "

is that the secret service ? My aunt was in the SS, she met/ married my uncle at the Singapore Americn embassy

he later found out she was SS, I think they may have all been SS

she was3 yrs older than she said,

many lies which the marriage did not last thru

[Trackhead]

I know this is a Canada thread, not Ukraine. But if Ukraine joins NATO, it seems like an immediate recipe for badness.

Ukraine has a ping pong history with Russia/USSR that is complicated, at best.

McSki,
American's wanted Washington as King because they had zero clue about democracy, nor did any nation at that time, and he was a strong leader and recently booted (with French assistance) the British the fuck out. Washington didn't even want to be president. Back then presidents did not campaign for themselves. His second term he'd have rather been dead than serve. Just watched a great documentary about him, running for office was NOT his thing. He wanted to retire after his first term.

I don't think you can transfer thoughts/cultural ideas from 250 years ago to today with much accuracy.

[MultiVerse]

saw this on fb, so prob fake news and needs fact checks, but interesting lolol

In 1923 Adolf Hitler incited an insurrection against the German government. He was tried, given a slap on the wrist, and became a convicted felon. Despite being treated charitably by the judge, Hitler claimed the trial was political persecution and successfully portrayed himself as a victim of the “corrupt" Social Democrats.

The risk is less a classic fascist dictatorship and more competitive authoritarianism:

"But authoritarianism does not require the destruction of the constitutional order. What lies ahead is not fascist or single-party dictatorship but competitive authoritarianism—a system in which parties compete in elections but the incumbent’s abuse of power tilts the playing field against the opposition. Most autocracies that have emerged since the end of the Cold War fall into this category, including Alberto Fujimori’s Peru, Hugo Chávez’s Venezuela, and contemporary El Salvador, Hungary, India, Tunisia, and Turkey. Under competitive authoritarianism, the formal architecture of democracy, including multiparty elections, remains intact. Opposition forces are legal and aboveground, and they contest seriously for power. Elections are often fiercely contested battles in which incumbents have to sweat it out. And once in a while, incumbents lose, as they did in Malaysia in 2018 and in Poland in 2023. But the system is not democratic, because incumbents rig the game by deploying the machinery of government to attack opponents and co-opt critics. Competition is real but unfair."

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/unite...arianism-trump

[MultiVerse]

^^^^ I mean, does anyone really think we're going to push Putin back to pre-2014 borders? He's been sitting on that territory for a decade.

I think the bigger problem for Ukraine is that he said they wouldn't join NATO. So no protection for them to stop Putin's next invasion.

Regardless, the Trump admin gave up its strongest negotiation position. Trump sided with Russia over NATO, they agreed to meet with Putin without getting anything in return, they conceded the European security order, they betrayed Ukraine by taking Putins side by trying to force a deal Ukrainians will not go for. This is all premature and badly planned

[Cisco Kid]

competitive authoritarianism = oligarchy = dictatorship lite. I'll take a hard pass.

[MultiVerse]

Oligarchy--very edgy, much marxism A better analogy is a royal court, and its courtiers