Ex-FLDS Group attempts to seize USFS land in SW Colorado

[Buster Highmen]

The sheriff is legally able to enforce fed, state, or county laws on the Forest. Typically they would do so w the co-operation of the FS cop.

True.
But I think that until Patrick Leroy Pipkin's claim is resolved, the fence may not be construed as illegal.

The primary legal issue is the dissolution of that claim and then the law can be enforced. Plus, given all the brotherly love for the Feds, a confrontation would likely lead to another firearm showdown shitshow like the Bundy incidents.

If people read this as an apology for the Feds tactics, that is not intended.

[adrenalated]

From Reddit, not my post:



https://www.reddit.com/r/Durango/s/I5eB2CmAYJ

Somebody mentioned up thread the FS probably has less than a dozen LEOs in the district; think less than five. Two designated LEOs, and maybe a couple of people in other positions that happen to be licensed (have training and certification, can issue citations, but are not armed and do not have regular patrols). The Montezuma County Sheriff dept has a couple dozen deputies patrolling over 2k sq mi of land, as well as providing primary police service to the town of Dolores and assisting tribal police on Ute Mountain Ute lands. I don't agree with the Sheriff's stance, but I can't blame him for not wanting to get into an armed standoff because some LDS kook thinks the flag doesn't have enough tassels on it.

Denver Post had a good article on it (the source for Reddit guy). Inbred motherfucker is delusional. "Inbred motherfucker" appears to be a factual description according to the article, by the way. His claims are absolutely batshit insane.





On the USFS you're most likely correct, I've met Nick (district ranger) and asked him how many staff he had and my guess of perhaps a dozen LEO was optimistic based on that. I didn't think about the "rangers" that can issue citations but are not full LEO.
As for the sheriff, your analysis is also accurate, though I don't think the town of Dolores really demands much more presence than the rest of rural Montezuma County. Frankly from what I can tell, he's generally not interested in doing a whole lot unless it involves indigenous folks on meth, in which case it's Seal Team Six on their asses.

Drives me nuts that the county and/or USFS doesn't do much in these cases. We have a guy that gated off a road by Irwin years ago- even though the county and the USFS say he has to remove the gate, it's still there. It's going to drag on for decades.

You guys should go all Montezuma County and take an angle grinder to that bitch.

The sheriff is legally able to enforce fed, state, or county laws on the Forest. Typically they would do so w the co-operation of the FS cop.

Yep. Our sheriff leans pretty heavily towards the anti-Federal government side of things though.

True.
But I think that until Patrick Leroy Pipkin's claim is resolved, the fence may not be construed as illegal.

The primary legal issue is the dissolution of that claim and then the law can be enforced. Plus, given all the brotherly love for the Feds, a confrontation would likely lead to another firearm showdown shitshow like the Bundy incidents.

There has been no actual legal claim made. The FLHC didn't file anything in court, or with the county, or make any sort of legal claim whatsoever other than the delusion that they somehow belong to a different United States of America than the rest of us do. They just had some mail order letterhead and stamps printed up with a nonsense logo, posted a few flyers, and started building fences. That's not a "claim" that's just vandalism and is absolutely a federal crime. Just like building rogue mountain bike trails or building a cabin on USFS lands without authorization is.

[stealurface831]

There has been no actual legal claim made. The FLHC didn't file anything in court, or with the county, or make any sort of legal claim whatsoever other than the delusion that they somehow belong to a different United States of America than the rest of us do. They just had some mail order letterhead and stamps printed up with a nonsense logo, posted a few flyers, and started building fences. That's not a "claim" that's just vandalism and is absolutely a federal crime. Just like building rogue mountain bike trails or building a cabin on USFS lands without authorization is.

in one of those articles, i'm pretty sure your ole rosco p. coltrane states that the claim has to be filed by the fs for whatever reason which makes no sense to me and may not be true but i did read it and it might explain why there is nothing on the books yet.

either way, these dudes not being booked and charged by now is a fucking travesty.

[TBS]

What are going to arrest them for? At best it’s vandalism. Stuff/cuff em all and they’d be out on bail in an hour. And making noise about Federal Gestapo tactics.

The fence is down, everybody can move about, no reason to create martyrs.

[TBS]

You guys should go all Montezuma County and take an angle grinder to that bitch.

Was thinking the same thing…

[stealurface831]

they are in clear and knowing violation of federal law and should get charged. simple as that. but i'm sure they appreciate your sympathies. maybe you could get in touch and help them when they decide to put the fence back up?

[byates1]

Send in blackwater.

[Buster Highmen]

Other interesting SEIZURES of public land.

https://www.durangoherald.com/articl...tle-lake-area/
https://www.durangotelegraph.com/new...lippery-slope/
https://www.durangoherald.com/articl...osa-watershed/
https://www.summitdaily.com/sports/u...tional-forest/
https://www.bikemag.com/news/rogue-t...north-carolina
https://www.wbur.org/onlyagame/2019/...ont-outside-in
https://www.pickatrail.com/about/map...ng-trails.html
https://www.hcn.org/issues/47-12/ill...-arizona-town/
https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/mbs/?cid=STELPRD3803708

I'm glad to read that the Pitkin fences are gone and hope that he gets arrested again in due process.

[old goat]

Pretty sure that the reason it says "the" on later documents is because Ohio State trademarked "The". King George had nothing to do with it.

As far as arresting folks--there are far too many people in this country arrested, cuffed, booked for infractions that at most should be handled with a citation, if that.

[adrenalated]

Other interesting SEIZURES of public land.

https://www.durangoherald.com/articl...tle-lake-area/
https://www.durangotelegraph.com/new...lippery-slope/
https://www.durangoherald.com/articl...osa-watershed/
https://www.summitdaily.com/sports/u...tional-forest/
https://www.bikemag.com/news/rogue-t...north-carolina
https://www.wbur.org/onlyagame/2019/...ont-outside-in
https://www.pickatrail.com/about/map...ng-trails.html
https://www.hcn.org/issues/47-12/ill...-arizona-town/
https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/mbs/?cid=STELPRD3803708

I'm glad to read that the Pitkin fences are gone and hope that he gets arrested again in due process.

Not sure the point of your last link, but an important distinction between what FLHC is doing and what rogue mountain bike trail builders do is that the trail builders do not attempt to claim private ownership of the land like FLHC is. This would be the difference in "seizure" of the lands. However, they are violating the same federal law which prohibits building trails, fences, etc. without authorization on public land.

The hcn.org link also details how mountain bike trail builders were in fact charged and convicted of federal crimes whereas in this case law enforcement appears to not be interested in doing anything to enforce said federal laws.

[MontuckyFried]

The hcn.org link also details how mountain bike trail builders were in fact charged and convicted of federal crimes whereas in this case law enforcement appears to not be interested in doing anything to enforce said federal laws.

The way that authorities pick and choose enforcement is maddening. They like to pick on people who will comply easily, but completely look the other way for the absolute worst offenders.

Kind of like how LA police don't hesitate to screw with your average citizen for a minor traffic violation, but want to rob a store or shoot up in broad daylight? Maybe take a dump on the sidewalk? Have at it!!! Case in point. My aunt-in-law there was backing out of her driveway and hadn't buckled up yet. Was in the middle of doing so. Cop happened to be there, flicked on the lights, and stopped her, right in front of her house. Issued a ticket, no warning. But when thieves go and smash some car windows and steal somebody's belongings? Those same cops be like... "Meh. Sounds like a personal problem. How about you call somebody who gives a shit? Click..."

[TBS]

^^^You watch too much Faux News

[DBdude]

unfortunately cops issue traffic citations and don't conduct investigations of minor property crimes

if you don't know why well than you really are a special type of snowflake

[goldenboy]

You guys should go all Montezuma County and take an angle grinder to that bitch.

Yeah, the "unofficial mayor of Irwin", John Biro, ripped that thing out once. Sadly, he passed away. The other big player trying to get the gate removed was David Gottorff, now in jail for his shenanigans in Ouray. so now it's up to the USFS and county to do very little, very slowly.

The gate owner is going with similarly batshit crazy theories: "Smith has argued that the road was never in the public domain. “Rather, Smith argues, the land became private as soon as it was taken from the Utes. According to Smith, the land that he now owns was originally a mining claim that was staked on the Ute reservation before 1882. When Congress dispossessed the Utes, it also retroactively recognized the validity of mining claims that had been staked on Ute land" https://crestedbuttenews.com/2022/06...r-new-rulings/

[heckacali]

Some of these people sound as crazy and self aggrandized as the average homeless crackhead you see in a big city puffing about proclaiming themselves grand emperor of market street

[Phall]

For those keeping track of the UT thing, come to this, should be a good time!
12/4 at the Natural History Museum we'll be talking with John Ruple, Research Professor of Law at the University of Utah on December 4th at 6:30pm as part of our "Stewards on Stage" speaker series. John is a leading expert on public lands law and well-published author on public lands issues.

https://www.backcountryhunters.org/b..._lands_in_utah

[adrenalated]

Federal lawsuit filed
https://www.justice.gov/usao-co/pr/u...UGUC7fkv4ZqXqw

[MakersTeleMark]

Federal lawsuit filed
https://www.justice.gov/usao-co/pr/u...UGUC7fkv4ZqXqw

That sheriff is a fucking tool.

[TBS]

Federal lawsuit filed
https://www.justice.gov/usao-co/pr/u...UGUC7fkv4ZqXqw

Thanks for the update. Would be fun to be on that jury.

Any word on the auction of this property to pay taxes? Was supposed to happen 11/7 but I can’t find anything about a sale.

[adrenalated]

Any word on the auction of this property to pay taxes? Was supposed to happen 11/7 but I can’t find anything about a sale.

Didn't hear anything more on that. Assessor still shows the property as being owned by the inbreds.