Ex-FLDS Group attempts to seize USFS land in SW Colorado

[TBS]

OK, so there is some backstory. FLDS did actually own some land (about 160 acres) that's surrounded completely by national forest. They purchased that in 2004. They supposedly had a small compound there and it's suspected that Warren and/or Lyle Jeffs were hiding out there at some point. When Pipkin won his wrongful arrest lawsuit in 2020, the judgement granted him several properties including those 160 acres. They removed some of the FLDS stuff but I'm not really clear on if anyone is or did live there.

The property went through a $0 transfer in Dec 2023 and is currently owned by "PJ Sunset PLP Nevada Revocable Living Trust." No fucking clue who owns that trust, but PLP happens to be Patrick Leroy Pipkin's initials.

PJ Sunset PLP is currently delinquent on their property taxes (to the tune of $12k-ish) and the property is scheduled to go to auction on Nov 7. Public notice in the paper yesterday.

In any case that's 160acres of private property, so I only bring that up because the ~1400 or so acres of USFS land that they are fencing in happens to completely surround this parcel.

Thanks for this. Gonna take a wild guess here that the motivation for this fencing project is to stall foreclosure on the property.

From Durango Herald re: why USFS isn’t going with @stealurface’s scorched earth strategy

Community members met to talk about what’s going on at Fenceline Cider in Mancos Wednesday at 7 p.m. to try and get on the same page about the issue.

Undersheriff Tyson Cox and District Ranger Nick Mustoe attended and answered questions from concerned citizens.

People asked how the group was able to put up the fence in the first place, and why the Forest Service or other officials had not forced them to take it down.

The community agreed that their concerns would largely be put to rest if the group was forced to remove the fence until a decision was made in court about who owns the property and what the boundary line truly is.

“Like you, I want this to be resolved,” said Mustoe. “There’s a right way to settle this.”

Mustoe said the Forest Service has to be the ones to file suit over this dispute on what they believe to be National Forest Service land. He also said they’re unable to remove the fence because if their claims are valid, they have legal claim to the land.

https://www.durangoherald.com/articl...-remove-fence/

Keep in mind that Ammon Bundy was acquitted on all counts in the Malheur Wildlife Refuge takeover, and he avoided charges in the Bunkerville standoff as well.

[Meadow Skipper]

Keep in mind that Ammon Bundy was acquitted on all counts in the Malheur Wildlife Refuge takeover, and he avoided charges in the Bunkerville standoff as well.

Never far from my mind.

Another semi/barely related incident was when last year a FS guy running a locally unpopular prescribed burn in eastern Oregon was pulled off the burn operation and cuffed and stuffed by the local asshole sheriff when there was a (small) spot fire on adjacent private land. He was finally let off, but point being these rural conflicts over fed lands are fraught with explosive potential.

[Phall]

For those more interested in the Utah Lawsuit, some insights/materials:

Shameless self plug as I'm the chapter chair for Utah Backcountry Hunters and Anglers chapter on this podcast discussing the issue:
https://www.backcountryhunters.org/ep189_utah

How to get involved:
https://www.backcountryhunters.org/u...i_get_involved

Article:
https://www.backcountryhunters.org/h..._lands_lawsuit

[Skistack]

Buy their shirts!




Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[adrenalated]

Gonna take a wild guess here that the motivation for this fencing project is to stall foreclosure on the property.

Possible for sure. Although, some quick back of the napkin math is telling me that the ~6+mi or 4 wire barbed wire fencing and t-posts that they're installing would be more expensive than their delinquent taxes by a decent margin (based on retail rates, of course).

This is a dude that's been through federal courts and won before so I'm not willing to dismiss these jokers as desperate inbred idiots. I'm also not willing to conclude that they're NOT desperate inbred idiots.

As for USFS, staffing is a real issue, I don't know exactly how many LEO personnel the local office has but I'd wager it's less than a dozen. I also suspect there might be some politics in play with the sheriff as he's been in a dickwaving contest with the commissioners all year over his budget. One of the commissioners holds a grazing lease in this area.

For those more interested in the Utah Lawsuit, some insights/materials:

Shameless self plug as I'm the chapter chair for Utah Backcountry Hunters and Anglers chapter on this podcast discussing the issue:
https://www.backcountryhunters.org/ep189_utah

How to get involved:
https://www.backcountryhunters.org/u...i_get_involved

Article:
https://www.backcountryhunters.org/h..._lands_lawsuit

Thanks for this, will give 'er a listen.

[Woodsy]

So far public sympathies are pretty overwhelmingly against this. Plenty of wild accusations and misinformation flying on the old Facebook of course but so far it seems to have pretty much united everyone from the good 'ol boys to the hippy chicks.



I'm a bit perplexed by the sheriff's response myself.

my kind of party


curious on Foggys take

[old goat]

interesting article on Constitutionalist Sheriffs

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...egade-sheriffs

The guy Nowlin beat for sheriff was apparently a "constitutional sheriff"--so I'd assume Nowlin is not?

No one likes the guvment (or anyone else) telling them what to do, and the feds are far from perfect, but all things considered the federal government does a better job of protecting civil liberties, the rule of law, and the overall public interest than the states and local jurisdictions. (See war between the states, brown v board, ADA, etc. etc etc.). The more local you get the slimier the politics. (See HOA).

[Woodsy]

this

I spend more and more time on blm and forest service land and national parks now
the damage these fucking cows can do to the land is really over the top

welfare queens they are

Anybody who spent any time ( or the night) at my condo in SLC in the early 00s and thats a lot of folks in here saw this book on my coffee table https://www.amazon.com/Welfare-Ranch.../dp/1559639423

wanna be rancher, predator killing government teat sucking anti government mouthbreathers

[adrenalated]

The guy Nowlin beat for sheriff was apparently a "constitutional sheriff"--so I'd assume Nowlin is not?

Just because Odis Sykes was batshit crazy don't mean the other guy ain't on the spectrum.
This is Boebert Country (TM)

[old goat]

Anybody who spent any time ( or the night) at my condo in SLC in the early 00s and thats a lot of folks in here saw this book on my coffee table https://www.amazon.com/Welfare-Ranch.../dp/1559639423

wanna be rancher, predator killing government teat sucking anti government mouthbreathers

Along similar lines Beyond the 100th Meridian by Stegner. Subsidized water in the West. Feds were selling water at 5 cents on the dollar to western alfalfa farmers at the same time they were paying eastern farmers not to grow it. "Water follows the plow". Stuff like that.

[Woodsy]

Cadillac Desert by Mark Reisner was and is on the book shelf if I didnt give it away again

[TBS]

^^^Great book

[old goat]

I think the items about alfalfa and the myth that water follows the plow are actually from Cadillac Desert. Beyond the 100th Meridian is about John Wesley Powell and how he tried to warn the government et al that there was no water on the Colorado Plateau except what flowed down the rivers from the mountains. Thinking about all the homesteaders on the plains who went bust or starved to death, thinking that water follows the plow, reminded me of this thread drift


Freezing to death beats starving, at least.

The West has always been fertile ground for one thing--lies.

[exsparky]

All the top FLDS guys are total crooks.

Here is one in Denver who is running at least 8 companies who is "broke."
Nephi Allred
He stole $12 million in food stamps. Nice guy.
UPDATE: (Nov. 19, 2020) -- The charges against Nephi Allred were officially dismissed as ordered by Judge Ted Stewart, Jan. 6, 2017.

Original story-Thursday, January 5th, 2017

Six more defendants in the multi-million dollar FLDS SNAP benefits fraud case were set free after pleading guilty Wednesday.

This comes more than 10 months after the FBI raided the polygamist towns of Hildale and Colorado City and arrested 11 leaders and members of the FLDS church for aiding and embedding SNAP benefits fraud.

He skated but the others had to fall as part of the deal because he was too important.


he owns
Reliance Electric
Productive Electric
Wang Electric
^not to collude or price fix I'm sure.
A fire alarm company.
A excavator company.

Here they are busted for Child labor laws from 2008-2013. nice People working kids in heavy equipment and electrical traveling on Hotel work is a reoccurring MO.
https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...aid/316507001/

and again. $1.9m
https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/whd/whd20150909-0


$1m pecans this time.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/30/us/fl...ase/index.html

now its $2m in pecans.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/flds-churc...ry?id=30916213

[exsparky]

Most of them have long narrow faces and thin brown hair and are tall and thin.

[RootSkier]

Most westerners of all political affiliation resolutely oppose proposals to privatize public lands

This is more-or-less the official platform of most state-level Republican parties. Sure, they frame it as returning the land to the state, but that is because the state land boards are GOP-run and have the authority to privatize/monetize that land.

Fuck Tim Sheehy, by the way.

[CarlMega]

Herald had another article where the Free Land nutz went out to interact w/ the people taking down their fence: https://www.durangoherald.com/articl...emoving-fence/

They trotted out their treaty lulz and pedaled some more horseshit.

Not making a lot of friends.

[The Reverend Floater]

For those more interested in the Utah Lawsuit, some insights/materials:

Shameless self plug as I'm the chapter chair for Utah Backcountry Hunters and Anglers chapter on this podcast discussing the issue:
https://www.backcountryhunters.org/ep189_utah

How to get involved:
https://www.backcountryhunters.org/u...i_get_involved

Article:
https://www.backcountryhunters.org/h..._lands_lawsuit

Good on you, P. This thread reminded me to up the BHA and TRCP support this year. So important to hit these assholes right in the beak!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ZomblibulaX]

From Reddit, not my post:

"For anyone paying attention of the Free Land Holders Committee drama over in Mancos, their claims to USFS lands is dumber than you expect.

I'm an attorney who grew up and practices in the four corners area. My practice involves public lands, though I'm admittedly more familiar with lands held by the BLM or Fish and Wildlife. When I saw all this I thought it might be interesting to look at the justifications they offer for their land claims and try to parse their argument. I was expecting some sage-brush level challenge to the existence of federal lands or maybe some tenuous connection to a long dead homesteader with a name spelled vaguely similar to one of their members. Ultimately I found nothing that made any sense to me, and that's because the real justification is a whole hell of a lot dumber than I expected, and it took someone actually talking to Pitkin to make it clear.

Essentially, Pitkin and his group are arguing that there are two different United States at play here. One is "The United States of America," the original republic created by the founders, of which he and his people all purport to be members, and "United States of America," an illegitimate non-entity masquerading as the republic and which has been in control of the country for some amount of time dating back to the reign of King Charles. Their justification for this? Certain treaties signed by government officials dating to as far back as the colonial period do not [capitalize] the T, signing instead on behalf of "the United States of America." Ok, but then why this land in particular? Why not all the public lands? In the 1920's the owner of the land in question sold it to the federal government. The instrument used to convey the land conveyed it to "The United States of America." Their argument, therefore, is that the land was conveyed to the original republic, not the sham entity we all live in. This is all nonsense, and you don't need an attorney to tell you that this absolutely will not hold up in court, if Pitkin or his people ever actually file a formal claim. I did some poking around the federal court PACER system. No actions of any kind have yet been docketed by or on behalf of Pitkin or the Free Land Holders Committee. Given his statement to the interviewer, I kind of doubt they intend to involve the courts at all and I question whether they'd respect an adverse decision."

https://www.reddit.com/r/Durango/s/I5eB2CmAYJ

Somebody mentioned up thread the FS probably has less than a dozen LEOs in the district; think less than five. Two designated LEOs, and maybe a couple of people in other positions that happen to be licensed (have training and certification, can issue citations, but are not armed and do not have regular patrols). The Montezuma County Sheriff dept has a couple dozen deputies patrolling over 2k sq mi of land, as well as providing primary police service to the town of Dolores and assisting tribal police on Ute Mountain Ute lands. I don't agree with the Sheriff's stance, but I can't blame him for not wanting to get into an armed standoff because some LDS kook thinks the flag doesn't have enough tassels on it.

[Mudfoot]

Sounds like a classic case of "This is public land, I'm a member of the public and therefore I have the right to do anything I want on it," mindset.

[goldenboy]

Drives me nuts that the county and/or USFS doesn't do much in these cases. We have a guy that gated off a road by Irwin years ago- even though the county and the USFS say he has to remove the gate, it's still there. It's going to drag on for decades.

For the podcast listeners out there, Bundyville is one of the best I've ever listened to.

[Hopeless Sinner]

Nowlin is still right; he's county, not Federal.

From what I read, Forest Protection Officers (FPOs) enforce Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) § 261.10, which regulates the use and occupancy of developed recreation sites in National Forests. Penalties
Violations of CFR § 261.10 can result in a penalty of up to $500, 6 months in prison, or both.

Get as snotty as you'd like, but the fact remains that the feds are playing the civil matter first, since a tiny fine and imprisoning 1 person isn't going to alleviate the claim.

The sheriff is legally able to enforce fed, state, or county laws on the Forest. Typically they would do so w the co-operation of the FS cop.

[MontuckyFried]

Drives me nuts that the county and/or USFS doesn't do much in these cases.

It's actually quite bizarre how unwilling our various governmental agencies have been to do literally ANYTHING about blatantly illegal incursions.
Are you a FLDS cult that want to take over USFS land?.... Federal response: "Meh."
Are you a foreign entity who wants to send a spy balloon across the entire country?... Sure thing.
Are you a drug cartel who wants to fly drones all over the US side of the border?... Have at it.
Want to fly UAVs all around Langley AFB for 17 days?... Go for it!
https://www.newsweek.com/us-air-forc...ry-map-1969811
https://www.wsj.com/politics/nationa...fense-331871f4

Seems that ESPECIALLY when there is no loss of life (ie drones/UAVs) the simple answer would be to shoot that nonsense down without hesitation, but nope! Apparently you can pretty much do whatever TF you want these days and the gubmint ain't gonna do sheeit about it.

Guess USFS land is free real estate now! Have at it, gentlemen! Time to go stake our claims!

[TBS]

Seems that ESPECIALLY when there is no loss of life (ie drones/UAVs) the simple answer would be to shoot that nonsense down without hesitation, but nope! Apparently you can pretty much do whatever TF you want these days and the gubmint ain't gonna do sheeit about it.

This is genius! I’m amazed nobody has thought of this before. Because shooting down a drone would not involve any risk to civilian life or property.

I mean the military already has the ability to vacuum up all of the debris from shooting down aerial targets before anything hits the ground in populated areas. And they’ve never missed a target.

The simple answer indeed

[dan_pdx]

The drone thing is weird though. Have to assume they're doing signals intelligence or otherwise working against our interests. Hoping that the military is implementing counter measures that they just haven't chosen to disclose