Trail Mullets

[SchralphMacchio]

Bike shopping for the wife. Looking for factory mullets, 130-150mm rear, 140-160mm front, with an eye toward the lighter and less of a bruiser side of the spectrum. Carbon frame. What should be on my short list?

(Edited)
1. SC Bronson 4.1 / Roubion
2. SC 5010 v5 / Furtado v5
3. Canyon Spectral CF
4. Norco Sight MX
5. Norco Optic MX


What else?

We aren’t totally sold on mullets yet but I have a hunch that’s where we will end up. When she rides my Bronson gen1 (that has -2 degree angleset and carbon wheels) she says she likes how agile it is compared to 29ers, but she is noticeably more tentative about obstacles than on a 29er. We demed a Hightower 3 a couple of weeks ago and will demo a Smuggler today. Sadly none of the local shops have any MX rental bikes for us to try out.

(Edit: removed SB135, thought it was a mullet)

[XXX-er]

i find my SC bullit mullet more agile than my Yeti 5.5 was, it just gets around 180 degree corners easier

[grinch]

Norco sight mx is a pretty nice option

https://www.norco.com/bikes/mountain...4-sight-C1-MX/

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Or optic mx for less travel

https://www.norco.com/bikes/mountain...4-optic-C2-MX/

[ASmileyFace]

Fairly new 5010 v5 owner here.

Coming off a 2019 Alloy Norco Sight and a major injury last year that kept me off a bike for ~18 months, I was looking for something that was agile, playful and squarely in the "trail" category. I wanted a bike that would make chilled recovery biking more interesting and fun, while being a great platform to work on bike skills as I progressed back into tougher terrain. I was not able to demo any bikes leading up to my purchase so I was going in kind of blind.

My initial short list was the Hightower, Transition Smuggler, Pivot Switchblade & Tallboy. Other than the Tallboy, all of the other bikes were so damn similar so I spent a lot of time reading specs and reviews. During my reading the 5010 kept catching my eye as a weird bike that was in-between the full 29er trail bikes and the Tallboy... but in a fun way. I had always been mullet curious so when I couldn't choose between the rest of the 29ers (and I could get a better deal on the 5010) I went for it.

So far I have been very pleased with the 5010. To put it in simple terms, it is silly fun. SW Colorado has an amazing selection of types of trails so I've had a chance to put it through some good tests. In tight and twisty terrain it is a dream, so easy to come around and snappy. Every berm becomes a test of how much dirt I can rooster and how much speed I can keep out of the turn. It feels stable and compliant up front, but agile and silly in the rear. Exactly as a the mullet moniker indicates. It is obviously not as planted as the full 39lb 29er I was coming off, but I have been pleasantly surprised at the ability to hold speed through chunky terrain. The rear travel (when setup right) is very poppy, so with light feet, good line choice you can ride any of the chunky terrain around here 85% as fast as I was before. Best of both worlds is how I have been feeling about it, comfortable and stable upfront and fun in the rear (lol).

I did have an issue with my Super Deluxe that came on the bike (I was leaking air on the damper body and having to pump it up on every ride). I have since warrantied it and reattached it to the bike yesterday so we'll see how this weekend's riding goes. Long term I will probably get a Cascade link when they release that, and put a short travel coil on to turn it into a mini-bronson... but still be able to go back to the lighter trail characteristics when I want to.

Is there anywhere you can check out the Forbidden Druid? That seems like a great choice in the category as well.

[SchralphMacchio]

Norco sight mx is a pretty nice option

https://www.norco.com/bikes/mountain...4-sight-C1-MX/

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Or optic mx for less travel

https://www.norco.com/bikes/mountain...4-optic-C2-MX/

Ah yes, good call, plus high pivot horst! But since this is a brand new release it will go at the bottom of the list since no discounts yet.

Fairly new 5010 v5 owner here.

…

So far I have been very pleased with the 5010. To put it in simple terms, it is silly fun. SW Colorado has an amazing selection of types of trails so I've had a chance to put it through some good tests. In tight and twisty terrain it is a dream, so easy to come around and snappy. Every berm becomes a test of how much dirt I can rooster and how much speed I can keep out of the turn. It feels stable and compliant up front, but agile and silly in the rear. Exactly as a the mullet moniker indicates …

Is there anywhere you can check out the Forbidden Druid? That seems like a great choice in the category as well.

Thanks for these notes. 5010 / Furtado is at the top of the list and there are discounts right now.

Forbidden … we live in a small market. Won’t even be able to test the 5010 v5, even given that our main two bike shops in town are both SC dealers! Anyways, my wife isn’t picky. I think 5010 will be the answer but I’ll wait until her notes from the Smuggler for today and tomorrow. Sounds like she’s really in a similar position to you and will get the benefits of the mullet.

[farmguy]

The Patrol is a mullet, not quite as slack as the Smuggler I think(?) Fits in the 160/140 range. Then the Scout while 27.5 150/140, very fun bike.

[SchralphMacchio]

Patrol and Bronson are “too big.” The geo and ride feel on the Patrol are also pretty extreme, I rode one in the rain in September and am pretty sure my wife would not like it (that rear has such little traction and just wants to take its own line everywhere, the bike tries to wheelie when pedaling up switchbacks, etc).

[SchralphMacchio]

BTW, if you want to test out the “worst of both worlds” on a mullet, try pedaling up tight, greasy, and/or technical switchbacks. I know that’s not what the bikes are made for, but that aspect shows where they are weakest. Something my wife won’t care too much about … for me it was eye opening. I can’t imagine that I would personally ever use a mullet on greasy trails due to the inherent traction imbalance.

[Andeh]

So as a mullet aficionado, I'll just say this: they work best with longer chainstays. Super short and the cornering gets weird, climbing tech gets weird and shitty, they feel less stable in chunk. My Nomad 6, Heckler SL both have 440mm CS on a medium and feel nicely balanced. The Levo I owned last year did also (442ish on S3). The point I'm getting to is that if you're really set on short travel, most of the factory mullets will have goofy short CS and not handle well.

The only short travel exception to the short CS I can think of is the Druid, especially since the rear grows as it sinks into travel. Haven't owned one of them though.

My Heckler SL is basically an E-Bronson/Furtado. I feel like it's got just the right amount of travel for aggressive riding. You can set it up pretty cushy if needed, or firmer for flowy stuff. I wouldn't call the geo too big in today's terms. It rides a lot more "trail" than my Nomad, despite having similar geometry and only 10mm front / 20mm rear less travel.

[XXX-er]

So as a mullet aficionado, I'll just say this: they work best with longer chainstays. Super short and the cornering gets weird, climbing tech gets weird and shitty, they feel less stable in chunk. My Nomad 6, Heckler SL both have 440mm CS on a medium and feel nicely balanced. The Levo I owned last year did also (442ish on S3). The point I'm getting to is that if you're really set on short travel, most of the factory mullets will have goofy short CS and not handle well.

The only short travel exception to the short CS I can think of is the Druid, especially since the rear grows as it sinks into travel. Haven't owned one of them though.

My Heckler SL is basically an E-Bronson/Furtado. I feel like it's got just the right amount of travel for aggressive riding. You can set it up pretty cushy if needed, or firmer for flowy stuff. I wouldn't call the geo too big in today's terms. It rides a lot more "trail" than my Nomad, despite having similar geometry and only 10mm front / 20mm rear less travel.

thats ^^ interesting so wanking around a bit in the specsheet it looks like SC calls it " rear center " so on the Bullit its even longer, the spindle-center to axle-center is 449 for all their sizes while heckler is 445/446 I would guess depending on mullet or not

I havent ridden any other mullets or even any other SC but i think Bullit is long however with 7" travel every thing is a berm, locally SC is a huge selling brand

[SchralphMacchio]

Thanks for the thoughts.
Bronson is back in the mix.
Only one ride but so far she likes the Hightower better than the Smuggler because the HT was set up more plush. I think when the Smuggler wanted to take off downhill she was fighting it with the brakes and with the suspension set up from the shop more firm it all felt off to her.

So now I’m realizing plushness is important … and I’m worried about trying to optimize a 125/130mm rear end on the Optic and 5010 for plushness, seems like it will be a lot easier to do on a Bronson or Sight MX.

[grinch]

The bike ive been considering, that looks ez to mulletize with its flip chip is the yt jeffsy. Flip the chip to high and put a 160 air shaft in the lyric and throw in the 27.5 rear wheel. It would make the head and seat angle 1? slacker, 64/76 and lower the bb 6mm. I'd probably slide the seat a bit forward to keep the SA at 77. Good numbers for me. Beauty bike and great price and spec. 33lbs

https://ca.yt-industries.com/product...-core-4/#tech2

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[Dee Hubbs]

Not a factory mullet, but I have some new LIV Hail carbon frames I’d sell for real cheap.
Their original 27.5 geo was not good, but they mullet into a decent bike that fits your description.

[singlesline]

The mullet S-Works Evo is still heavily discounted and in stock in smaller sizes which might work for her:

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/s-...=336226-200534

Still not cheap...but it is a mullet with a top of the line build kit and it is relatively light for a 160/150 (or 150/150 in S1)

[jackstraw]

So as a mullet aficionado, I'll just say this: they work best with longer chainstays. Super short and the cornering gets weird, climbing tech gets weird and shitty, they feel less stable in chunk. My Nomad 6, Heckler SL both have 440mm CS on a medium and feel nicely balanced. The Levo I owned last year did also (442ish on S3). The point I'm getting to is that if you're really set on short travel, most of the factory mullets will have goofy short CS and not handle well.

The only short travel exception to the short CS I can think of is the Druid, especially since the rear grows as it sinks into travel. Haven't owned one of them though.

My Heckler SL is basically an E-Bronson/Furtado. I feel like it's got just the right amount of travel for aggressive riding. You can set it up pretty cushy if needed, or firmer for flowy stuff. I wouldn't call the geo too big in today's terms. It rides a lot more "trail" than my Nomad, despite having similar geometry and only 10mm front / 20mm rear less travel.

I find the Bronson MX in large has zero issues on granite tech. And dirt rooty stuff I like the front 29er on the up and enjoy the 650b rear on the down. Getting balanced on a down turn it does feel like I'm getting further over the front vs my 29er or my 650b Bronson.

The full 650b feels like a BMX bike now, so it's super fun on tight twisty stuff, but I'm sold on the MX bikes now.

Full 29er Blur TR works on all the stuff I ride my MX on, but its much faster and confidence inspiring on the Bronson. I guess what I'm saying is it seems like most bikes are capable of a lot these days and it's hard to go wrong. Maybe the lightest bike would require the least effort, so easier? Or a heavier bigger suspension bike would give the most confidence, which may be easier? Focus on ones specific weakness where they'll be riding most often for bike choice?

[SchralphMacchio]

Not a factory mullet, but I have some new LIV Hail carbon frames I’d sell for real cheap.

Thanks for the offer … more travel than the wife needs but maybe I’ll hit you up we save more cash to build me a bigger bike. I’m not afraid of women’s graphics and topsheets, I bought two sets of Blizzard Sheeva 11 skis with glitter on them because they were less than half the price of Rustler 11s and identical construction!

The mullet S-Works Evo is still heavily discounted and in stock in smaller sizes which might work for her:

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/s-...=336226-200534

Not cheap and my wife and I are both size 3 / ~450 reach, but thanks for checking!!!

I think I’m pretty sold on Bronson / Roubion MX for her, and leaning toward CC frame to get the total bike weight on par with the Hightower C S that she really really liked. Lots of used inventory on Roubions and Bronsons and some previous year new inventory out there … not very much CC inventory though so I’ll see what I can find.

[carlh]

I just put my wife on a giant trance x but it’s full 29. Plush suspension and conservative geometry for her conservative riding. Only 1 ride so far but she seems to like it.

[SchralphMacchio]

If my wife and I lived in Bend, where pedaling really matters, where you have to pedal even on downhill trails, I would 100% be getting the Hightower for her.

But we ride Alsea, Carpenter Bypass, Oakridge, Ashland, and Hood River - it’s almost all slowly grind (or shuttle) up and then bomb down a lot of vert. Even though my wife is not very fast, I think the Bronson will still be more comfortable for her on this kind of terrain. The trail I shuttled her on today drops nearly 3k feet in only 3 miles and requires almost no pedaling!

[Andeh]

One other reason to look for one of the CC frames (unless you're getting like a Jenson custom build), the lower tier ones don't have LSC/HSC adjust on the shock. It's basically not until the X01/XO builds that you start getting the SD Ultimate. I mention it because a lighter rider is almost certainly going to need to open up the comp a bit on the stock tune.

[XXX-er]

I've often wondered if there is more to a great mullet than just wheel size ?

A local guy has an SC 29/26 mullet possibly from some warranty chicarnery and you can tell something is wierd at a glance .

[jackstraw]

If my wife and I lived in Bend, where pedaling really matters, where you have to pedal even on downhill trails, I would 100% be getting the Hightower for her.

But we ride Alsea, Carpenter Bypass, Oakridge, Ashland, and Hood River - it’s almost all slowly grind (or shuttle) up and then bomb down a lot of vert. Even though my wife is not very fast, I think the Bronson will still be more comfortable for her on this kind of terrain. The trail I shuttled her on today drops nearly 3k feet in only 3 miles and requires almost no pedaling!

Yeah, that sounds perfect for a Bronson and it climbs fine imo. Again, I did find myself having to focus on staying more forward on the down to be balanced. Slack and the smaller rear wheel kinda kept me back I guess. I've never owned a DH bike, so it was a new feeling for me. I went from a High tower to a 650b Bronson, then the MX. The MX seemed very different initially, but it's my favorite now.

[SchralphMacchio]

One other reason to look for one of the CC frames (unless you're getting like a Jenson custom build), the lower tier ones don't have LSC/HSC adjust on the shock. It's basically not until the X01/XO builds that you start getting the SD Ultimate. I mention it because a lighter rider is almost certainly going to need to open up the comp a bit on the stock tune.

That’s a pretty good point.

SC has the C GX AXS RSV builds at the same price as the CC XO AXS build. At first glance most people would say, oh yeah I would take GX and Reserve Wheels over the CC frame and XO drivetrain! But then look closely at the specs, and the shock and fork are Select dampers on the C versus Ultimate on the CC, and the hubs are actually DT370 on the RSVs versus DT350 or I9 1/1 on the CC! So, lighter frame, better suspension, better hubs - versus carbon rims with base level hubs, less adjustable dampers, and heavier frame.

My wife and I are pretty close in height, and she has a little bit of weight on me, but the main thing is we want to tune this thing for max plushness. Like, I’ll probably be pulling out all the spacers and tokens and getting LSC as low as will be tolerable for pedaling and braking! She never uses the max travel on my Bronson 27.5 which I have set up with 2 tokens in my Pike and 3 bands in the Monarch+.

[Andeh]

Related to that, another point in favor of the Roubion if you go that way is I believe they spec the Juliana models with a lighter tune. The men's bikes all get a slightly firmer than stock tune. And their suggested shock settings are almost always "HSC open, LSC in the middle," so if you're likely to err lighter, best to start with the lighter tune to give you more range in that direction.

[SchralphMacchio]

My LBS can get the Roubion CC XO AXS RSV kit in our size (M), but not the CC XO AXS alloy wheel kit … so we may up getting the Bronson and its shock tune. Having a hard time finding a used current vintage Bronson or Roubion CC too.

I had a custom compression tune done for the Monarch Bronson 1 to go in between light and medium compression damping and that seemed to work well for both of us.

[SchralphMacchio]

Related to that, another point in favor of the Roubion if you go that way is I believe they spec the Juliana models with a lighter tune. The men's bikes all get a slightly firmer than stock tune. And their suggested shock settings are almost always "HSC open, LSC in the middle," so if you're likely to err lighter, best to start with the lighter tune to give you more range in that direction.

Quick internet search indicates that stock SDU tune for Bronson is now “linear rebound light compression.” I wonder if the Roubion is any different now - does RS still make an “extra light” compression tune? Will ask my shop owner and in Experts thread.