Tune new skis?

[gregL]

Huh?

The bottom of the skis is made flat by a large cyllindrical stone first, then the base edge bevel is applied by a series of spinning disks set to the correct angle. The rotary marks you see, which extend slightly on to the base, are from these, which never touch the middle of the ski.

[buttahflake]

Dude seriously? Ive been running a Wintersteiger Mercury for the last 6 years. Kinda familiar with the process

[XXX-er]

definately an interesting topic here.

i worked for a well known brand with cap construction and foam core skis, and when they air shipped samples straight off the press for tradeshows, those things almost always arrived crazy railed in the tips and tails. The conventional wisdom at the time was that going from high humidity and temp production to low pressure cargo hold of a plane caused the warp, since it was notably more than production skis that were boat-shipped. It didn’t appreciably happen to wood core skis in the same shipments.

on a sandwich ski, they are finished curing by the time the ski is cooled and comes out of the mold. So generally bad factory tunes come from out-of-calibration tune machines.

and aside from this, modern tuning machines just don’t do edge bevels very will in the tips and tails of rockered freeride skis (ie 3d shapes vs linear grind planes), so the area around the wide points through the ends almost always benefit from hand work on more progressive shapes. Based on my experiences, the more conservative the shape, the less likely it needs hand work touch up out of the wrapper.

I bought a pair of 1st gen BD Verdicts cap/ foam core/ made in the Atomic factory which I don't think they were railed so much as badly concave, they also had a lot of camber and were somewhat evil handling, a stone grind on a Montana saphir and dulling the tails back 10cm really changed that handling

i figured the concave had something to do with the foam core shrinking ?

It would have taken a lot of work to fix them by hand but the Montana made them perfect in 15 min

I don't normally tune a new ski unless it needs it like the verdicts did

[Marshal Olson]

One other thing thing that is often worth checking for is case hardening. When the edge is excessively hardened, it won’t detune, So a ski can feel grabby, even if you do a detune process and checked the bevels.

back in my days of helping the race service techs prep skis for magazine tests, we would always fully remove the ceramic disc finish by hand, as there was often areas of case hardening along the edge.

not saying everyone would always benefit from all of this with every ski, just sharing as a fwiw if someone is trying to troubleshoot a pair of skis

[SB]

Tune and hot box

[PB]

My current ski habits are such that I always reset the edges more aggressively than the factory angles, so always tune first. There was a time that I felt skiing it first was the way to go, but then had a bad experience with some stocklis (base high - very squirrelly). Out of 5 pairs of skis I mounted this season 3 arrived edge high - probably not enough to kill me, but still. I guess I would say if you got some skis with a very specific purpose, and know that the factory tune is not what you want to end up with, why wouldn't you tune before skiing? If you're trying something new, with no real expectations, then sure, ski first.

[kootenayskier]

New skis, old skis, everything gets regular love. Getting my edges smooth, sharp and beveled (2 and 1 degree) exactly as I want them, my bases flat, filled, and waxed, it’s all a fundamental and joyful part of being ready to ski.

[josh.podoll@gmail.com]

Completely agree. fresh tune always feels best.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Dude seriously? Ive been running a Wintersteiger Mercury for the last 6 years. Kinda familiar with the process

Correct me if I’m wrong but we’re talking about new skis from the factory. The process from grinding and setting edges in bulk quantities might be different than what you’re doing in the shop.

It’s pretty common for performance skis to have the edges polished after having the edges set.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[lrn2swim]

Yup, only bevel for me.

Not like one of the other examples I mentioned - almost took my knee and threw me into a tree when I exited deep pow onto a groomer on my first run on the skis

Hahahaha, same.

[SnowMachine]

I got wild and ordered $300 worth of tools/wax yesterday (call it cabin fever). I'm curious to check out a few pairs of skis and also modify their habits a bit.

The other huge factor for me is the beating my all-mountain skis take. My freshly tuned skis made it one day before grinding edges over granite. I've somewhat given up on my daily drivers. I knock down the burrs and wax them once a week, or so, but the edges are pretty bad. They'll probably go full rock ski before next year.

[detrusor]

I always check every ski that comes to me for flat and bevel, grind as necessary. A few cycles of wax makes the ski more durable imho…more likely to slide off a rock instead of grabbing. I could be full of shit though.
The case hardening also happens when you smoke a rock, need to hit that spot hard with a real stone before tuning or the file just skips over that spot.

[gregL]

The case hardening also happens when you smoke a rock, need to hit that spot hard with a real stone before tuning or the file just skips over that spot.

Knock the burr down with a 100 diamond stone before you use your "good" tools on it.

[gregL]

Correct me if I’m wrong but we’re talking about new skis from the factory. The process from grinding and setting edges in bulk quantities might be different than what you’re doing in the shop.

It’s pretty common for performance skis to have the edges polished after having the edges set.

I think what buttahflake is saying is he wants to see circular striations all the way across the base edge when he pulls the ski out of the machine to make sure the base bevel is set correctly. No argument there. What I'm saying is I don't want those striations on the skis I'm going to use and get rid of them. In the factories I've been in, the finishing process is pretty much the same (cylindrical stone for the structure and ceramic disks for the edges, but they're pushing a lot more skis through.

[tuco]

I took it as he wants to see marks from the stone on the edges because that will tell you your base is flat edge to edge

[gregL]

I took it as he wants to see marks from the stone on the edges because that will tell you your base is flat edge to edge

And my point is that the rotary marks on the edge and the structure in the P-Tex are created by different parts of the machine.

[tuco]

Yes, acutely aware of that, that's why I indicated he was looking for marks created by the stone

[skinipenem]

I always check for base flatness and tip-to-tail warpage, then check bevels

What's the best way to check:

Base flatness? I use a true bar

Tip-to-tail warpage? (What is this?)

Bevels?



Sent from my SM-S908U1 using Tapatalk

[gregL]

What's the best way to check:

Base flatness? I use a true bar

Tip-to-tail warpage? (What is this?)

Bevels?

True bar is great.

Sight down the length of the ski and check that the base at the tip is parallel with the base at the tail to check for tip-tail warpage. Tape a ruler across the contact points at tip and tail if you can't see it well.

I check edge bevels with a file in a guide - if the factory bevel is 3 degrees and you run a file in a 2 degree edge bevel guide down the edge, you will get a bright shiny line on the part of the edge closest to the base, if it is 3 degrees you should make the whole edge shiny. Most file guides are only in 1 degree increments (3, 2, 1 and 0 degrees) so it takes a bit of experience and good light to interpret this, but it's pretty straightforward. FWIW most people consider the margin for error with tuning machines to be ~ .2 degrees, so take the manufacturer's spec with a grain of salt.

It helps to have an idea of what bevels you want for a particular width/type of ski in advance. For race skis it's normally .75 and 3, for carving skis normally 1 and 3, "all mountain" skis from 95mm to 105mm normally 1 and 2, skis over 115mm wide usually 1 and 1.