Avalung, but with a trigger

[frorider]

https://www.safeback.no

Thoughts?

[Ørion]

Rather have an airbag personally but one can only assume they're hoping to eventually come out with a combo unit.

[frorider]

Agree

[Bunion 2020]

Great idea "if" you survive the ride.

[Dantheman]

Great idea "if" you survive the ride.

And you aren't buried so deep that the weight of the overlying snow is crushing your chest and preventing you from breathing at all. But, yeah, seems like a good idea.

[frorider]

Mostly just posted this because I was wondering if anyone had heard of it (I hadn’t).

[Bunion 2020]

First I have heard of it but it does sound promising.

[garyfromterrace]

hmmm. Interesting. First I've heard of it as well. Thanks for posting fro. Initial thoughts after spending a full 43 seconds on their website...is that I'd rather have a big inflated bag potentially keeping me on top and possibly providing some protection against trauma.

[sfotex]

Safeback Device– A ‘new asphyxiation delaying device during snow burial in a prone position.” It is a battery powdered rebreather device that pulls fresh air from the back of a buried patient and moves it to vents located on the shoulder straps of the pack and is activated by pulling a handle on the shoulder handle.

It was developed with/for the Norwegian Military. The idea is to extend the survival rate for patients that make it past the initial 15 mins on a burial(i.e. no truma/or occluded airway)

[Name Redacted]

Well, can they put that in an airbag vest with a spine guard and Leatt neck brace and and call it good?

[Upinsmoke]

I still ski with my avalung. I know the guy in Telluride with the record for longest burial and still surviving. The airbag is a great tool above treeline. Unfortunately, it’s proven in treed slopes it’s usually a problem because the wearer suffers more trauma being pinballed around. I like this idea coupled with an airbag and avy education

[william.sherman@safeback.no]

Stoked to see this shared on here - we've been meaning to post here ourselves, but haven't been able to because of permissions issues.


We are open to take any questions you may have about our technology here, or you guys can find an AMA in the r/Skigear subreddit and throw your question in there.

Otherwise, can also recommend giving our interviews with The Avalanche Hour and Gear:30 a listen...


Fire away if you have any questions!

[summit]

Powered avalung.... kinda

It doesn't protect your airway during the slide or burial. Some avalung users report they were able to keep skiing and fighting because their airway was clear.

It requires charging and activation, but doesn't require you to keep in or put in a mouth piece.

Heavier and more pricey than the avalung.

Rating from a 18 year avalung user: MEH!

Maybe you can market to ground SAR as we are more likely to be hit from above without turbulent flow where you want an airbag.

I still sometimes attach an avalung to my alpride e1

Broader appeal maybe if integrated into an electric avalanche bag: use the fan, trigger and power source so you don't have quite the weight and price penalty. Sell it to alpride or litric.... That's probably your actual business plan, no?

[schindlerpiste]

The next innovation will be to combine this with an airbag, but 2 activation triggers when going for a ride seems complicated.

[stuckathuntermtn]

How does it work if it doesn't go directly onto your airway like the avalung?

[Ørion]

The next innovation will be to combine this with an airbag, but 2 activation triggers when going for a ride seems complicated.

Why two triggers?

I imagine that they'd beef up the battery and fan on the airbag and just have a second stage "low speed fan" mode that's keeping the bag full and pumping excess air towards the head.

[gaijin]

The airbag is a great tool above treeline. Unfortunately, it’s proven in treed slopes it’s usually a problem because the wearer suffers more trauma being pinballed around. I like this idea coupled with an airbag and avy education

Ummm, what?

As someone who has ridden a slide, and was in the "Zero Control White Room" while "ping-ponging" off of trees for a solid 100m, I would have definitely preferred to have a big ass airbag on my back.

But that's just me. I got lucky and this is anecdotal.

Avalanches in trees... I call it the Meat Grinder. Any protection you can muster should be taken seriously. I still can't believe I walked away from that.

My biggest fear was getting stuck on a tree, and then getting ripped in half by the force of the coming snow.

Maybe the airbag would have prevented me from being able to keep my feet below me, but who knows? And, maybe I'm proof that no airbag in a forest-avi is the way to survive the game of Blind-Pong.

April 4th, 2009. I don't recommend. The snow came to a stop. My face was above the surface, everything else buried. I screamed at God. Took me a painful hour just to dig down to my skis. I hate that forest now.

[garyfromterrace]

I'm with you gaijin on questioning the "issue" with airbag deployment in trees. Anything that would help deflect/absorb would be a good thing getting strained through trees. There was another thread that raised questions about wearing one in the trees (some cat operator was against them or something...). I maintain it can't hurt to have this shit on in avi terrain.

[Ørion]

I think the confusion is that airbags are less effective below treeline because of the higher risk from impact trauma and that's being conflated into being actively harmful?

I've never seen any study saying they're more dangerous in trees. It is a limitation, not a liability.

[Upinsmoke]

In my experience, with the airbag deployed, you are carried further in an avalanche. 2 ski partners of mine have passed away in incidents below treeline, wearing airbags. Both died from trauma, not asphyxiation. Trauma from being dragged through trees. Just my data

[stuckathuntermtn]

Airbags have been around since 2009?! Damn.
Also, no one answered my question about how this thing works when your airways are blocked by and full of snow. An Avalung makes sense because you put it in your mouth like a snorkel and if you manage to keep it there, you keep your airway clear. How does this work if it's just a fan by your shoulders? I don't buy their air circulation theory.

[sfotex]

Also, no one answered my question about how this thing works when your airways are blocked by and full of snow. An Avalung makes sense because you put it in your mouth like a snorkel and if you manage to keep it there, you keep your airway clear. How does this work if it's just a fan by your shoulders? I don't buy their air circulation theory.

See my post above:
The idea is to extend the survival rate for patients that make it past the initial 15 mins on a burial(i.e. no truma/or occluded airway)

So the military wanted something they could integrate into a rucksack without the negatives of an airbag, ( like accidental deployment in a helicopter, tank, etc., losing pack space for the guts) and for users with minimal training. Think of soldiers marching up a road and getting hit by a slide from above.

[stuckathuntermtn]

So it is, in fact, useless if you get a bunch of snow down your nose/mouth.
This seems like a solution looking for a problem when the Avalung already exists. Or is there something I don't know about what would happen if you accidentally deployed your Avalung in a helicopter?

[Ørion]

So it is, in fact, useless if you get a bunch of snow down your nose/mouth.

This seems like a solution looking for a problem when the Avalung already exists. Or is there something I don't know about what would happen if you accidentally deployed your Avalung in a helicopter?

All these devices have drawbacks.

I'd be curious to see the statistics on how many skiers trust they can insert the mouthpiece in time vs just always descend with it in.

The statistics would be harder to come by, but given how wildly violent avalanches can be and how often we hear about articles of clothing getting ripped from people, what is the success rate of keeping the mouthpiece in for a full slide and burial?

If one's mouth can be forced open enough to pack the throat with an ice plug, I don't see how biting down on an avalung mouthpiece will significantly change that.

[Stuntmonkey]

All these devices have drawbacks.

I'd be curious to see the statistics on how many skiers trust they can insert the mouthpiece in time vs just always descend with it in.

The statistics would be harder to come by, but given how wildly violent avalanches can be and how often we hear about articles of clothing getting ripped from people, what is the success rate of keeping the mouthpiece in for a full slide and burial?

If one's mouth can be forced open enough to pack the throat with an ice plug, I don't see how biting down on an avalung mouthpiece will significantly change that.

Anecdotal but we just had a local dude die in a slide with an avalung, but couldn't get it in his mouth in time. I feel like it's another tool along side of the airbag that offers about an additional chance at survival, but much like an airbag is only useful if all the tangibles line up e.g you can get it in your mouth, don't have snow rammed down your throat and your airway isn't compromised.