Grass is Greener Advice

[plugboots]

Money is nice to have. Take the job.

[skaredshtles]

Fwiw some friends of mine in Germany also had the same calculations as us in Canada. Their Healthcare was about the same.

Yeah - goddam Germans, too.

The cost of kids has gone up a lot also due to the expense of secondary education in the US which to me, was eye-opening.

You ain't kidding - 3rd one started at uni in August. 1st one finished Dec '22 and the 2nd finishes this May. I'm gonna be rolling in disposable income... in a few years.

[LeeLau]

Yeah - goddam Germans, too.


You ain't kidding - 3rd one started at uni in August. 1st one finished Dec '22 and the 2nd finishes this May. I'm gonna be rolling in disposable income... in a few years.

I've said to my brother that I'll help out the nieces when it comes time for their secondary education. Seems like a right thing to do. But it's an order of magnitude less in Can for tuition than in the US. UBC degree is $ 5k per year in tuition. US/International rates for UBC tuition is approx $ 25K per year and even then I'm told that's cheaper than the US degrees. Crazy

Another thought for DTM. You'll be forced/coached to practise bizdev and rain-making/schmoozing skills. That happened to me mid-career. I got comfortable with knowing how to adjust quickly when quizzed and running with ideas and translating them to action/implementation or figuring out reasonable alternatives. I'm sure you're already doing this but you'll be doing it more so than before when you're the top dog/lead. And that's a heck of a good skill to practise and learn.

One more thought re what altachic said. It always helps to have and earn more $. I call it saving/having a bag of FU money. It doesn't mean you have to tell other demands on your time FU. But it does mean that you can tell other "stuff" to take a hike. And imo that gives one a certain sense of freedom of choice. Whether that means, choosing to work more or to work less, or to take a sabbatical, or to hang with your kids, or to ski and lot/bike a lot and post excessively on TGR

[Dantheman]

Money is nice to have. Take the job.

Hard to argue against this.

[climberevan]

I always argue that people should work less, even if it means earning less. I've never really understood the drive to work a lot (40+h/wk) or even a shitload (80h? nuts!) for a lot of years in the hope that one can retire at 65 or so. That's selling one's best years so that one can "relax" when one is over the hill.

My personal situation is not widely transferable (self-employed for most of my career, frugal to the point of still being kind of a dirtbag, no kids, etc), but I have largely stopped working at 47. (And averaged around 20h/wk for the last 6 years or so.) I can afford to travel and buy new bike parts once in a while, but I'm not driving a car built in the last 15 years.

DTM's situation here, however, is a little different. It sounds like working way less is not really on the table, especially with a kid. It also sounds like the increased rate of pay could be so overwhelming that a few extra hours will be worth it. But do the math! If you're working 44h now and the new expectation is 55h, that 50% increase in salary works out to only 120% your current hourly rate. So if making 100k now, that's $43.70/hr vs $52.45/hr at the new rate/hrs. Just figure it out for your salary.

How much is riding your bike to work worth? Getting hit by that car seemed pretty fun, and surely you don't want to give up future opportunities for that. How much would losing another 10ish hours a week impact your time with your kid? How many fewer ridge traverses will you be able to do if you lose that time? Especially since you'll feel pressure to minimize the impact on the kid time.

I feel like people in general have really lost sight of the concept of "ENOUGH".

Like, how much money/clothes/cars/furniture/square feet/etc does one really need? Happiness, as we know, is mostly determined by one's in-built mindset unless one is genuinely suffering financially. If you're making enough money to live a comfortable life and you enjoy your work and co-workers and your job is stable, that "greener" grass is likely just our consumerist society talking.

[North]

To state the obvious: no job is a guarantee. Not the one you have and not the one you're considering. You're presumably being headhunted because you have experience, skills, and a reputation that make you a valuable hire. That's not going to change whether or not the new gig ends up being a good fit. If you're excited about it, try it and give it a real effort. If you're worried about losing valuable time with your kid, set some hard boundaries on your time from the jump. Don't be afraid to bail if it's not working out.

I have some smart and talented friends that (IMO) limit themselves for fear of losing their paycheck/the unknown. That's natural, but my fears of change diminished greatly when I got laid off in my late 20s (~8yr gig, only real job I'd ever had). I came out the other side just fine, if not better. If you don't have FU money, FU confidence that you can and will find another equal or better opportunity is the next best thing. Moving around occasionally and taking a leap is a great way to build that confidence.

FWIW my perspective is not coming from the "more money = more better side". I'm in a very similar situation to climberevan, and heavily prioritize enjoying my time outside of work. I did some sustained dirtbagging before my current gigs really got going, and there's no way around the fact that $$$ matters, even if you're not chasing excess (currently buying almost all the fancy groceries I want).

[Core Shot]

The description of the new job sounds exciting.
If you are up to the challenge.
If you are, many folks would take the new opportunity for the same pay.
Money isn’t everything. But it helps.

[Dantheman]

I always argue that people should work less, even if it means earning less. I've never really understood the drive to work a lot (40+h/wk) or even a shitload (80h? nuts!) for a lot of years in the hope that one can retire at 65 or so. That's selling one's best years so that one can "relax" when one is over the hill.

My personal situation is not widely transferable (self-employed for most of my career, frugal to the point of still being kind of a dirtbag, no kids, etc), but I have largely stopped working at 47. (And averaged around 20h/wk for the last 6 years or so.) I can afford to travel and buy new bike parts once in a while, but I'm not driving a car built in the last 15 years.

DTM's situation here, however, is a little different. It sounds like working way less is not really on the table, especially with a kid. It also sounds like the increased rate of pay could be so overwhelming that a few extra hours will be worth it. But do the math! If you're working 44h now and the new expectation is 55h, that 50% increase in salary works out to only 120% your current hourly rate. So if making 100k now, that's $43.70/hr vs $52.45/hr at the new rate/hrs. Just figure it out for your salary.

How much is riding your bike to work worth? Getting hit by that car seemed pretty fun, and surely you don't want to give up future opportunities for that. How much would losing another 10ish hours a week impact your time with your kid? How many fewer ridge traverses will you be able to do if you lose that time? Especially since you'll feel pressure to minimize the impact on the kid time.

I feel like people in general have really lost sight of the concept of "ENOUGH".

Like, how much money/clothes/cars/furniture/square feet/etc does one really need? Happiness, as we know, is mostly determined by one's in-built mindset unless one is genuinely suffering financially. If you're making enough money to live a comfortable life and you enjoy your work and co-workers and your job is stable, that "greener" grass is likely just our consumerist society talking.

Lots of good points. If the workload really does end up being 55 hrs a week, yeah, I'm out. Riding my bike really is worth a lot (FTR, I didn't get hit on my commute, that's what I get for violating my "Only for transportation, not recreation" rule ). I can tell you from experience, like last winter when it never stopped snowing or my recent adventure with a broken thumb, that it's impossible make up those training hours. I estimate that I did at least 2,500 miles last year.

I'm really not the "Keep up with the Joneses" type. The goal would be to maintain my current lifestyle as much as possible and bank money so I can exit this game much sooner than planned, maybe with a "I'm looking for the least possible amount of responsibility" part time gig. My latest model vehicle is a 2010. If I want to make the Joneses jealous I just do yard work out front with my shirt off.

I have some smart and talented friends that (IMO) limit themselves for fear of losing their paycheck/the unknown.

This hits home. It feels a little like I imagine it feels to get the call to go film in AK. Could end up being the ride of a lifetime, could end up in a pile of sluff with a blown knee and bloody face.

Money isn’t everything. But it helps.

I like to say that the things that make me happy can't be bought, but that doesn't mean they don't cost money.

[Buster Highmen]

... However, the amount of money on the table could potentially mean retiring years earlier than I had planned.

That's worth it.
My choice integrated that, but I got out sort of late at 62 with enough so our 2 kids don't qualify for FAFSA and we can afford their college.

I actually liked making stuff though.

[climberevan]

If I want to make the Joneses jealous I just do yard work out front with my shirt off.

Sig worthy.

[californiagrown]

Some things to consider- added responsibility means that you will be working more, officially or unofficially due to the the larger chunk of your thoughts the job will take up. You will likely need to be available afterhours, and life will begin to blend with work with less of a boundary. More vacation sounds nice, but can be a trap in that you have to actually take it and sometimes the increased stress from preparing for/catching up from vacation ends up negating the benefit of vacation. the job may appear cushy at first, but the extra responsibilities (after hours BD, mgmt meetings, travel, HR issues, etc on top of producing measurable project work) can be a real pain in the ass, especially if you have kids you want to spend time with.


IMO, the added stress and time is worth it if you will be able to take pride in your success at the new job. If you arent emotionally and psychologically invested in the success of your company/program, the money wont be worth it (unless its fuck-you money). The most successful people i have known love doing their job- they have more than enough money to retire, but they are truly invested in their work and take immense pride in it so they keep at it. So if this job is something you will be proud of and something you are excited to take on the challenges regardless of the money, then you should do it. But if you are just taking the job so you can buy a few more toys, and retire a decade earlier at 50 (while sacrificing time with your kids when they are in the house with you), then its probably not.

Basically, if you are very comfy financially now, then the money should be a fairly low priority when deciding to take the job... though once you do decide to take it definitely negotiate the shit out of your compensation.

Final thing to add- Make sure your partner is 100% onboard first because they will have to step up as well for the first year or two while you work extra hard to get your feet underyou and learn the new roles, responsibilities, personalities, processes, etc of the new job and the company. You will not be efficient, or know what corners to cut until youve done the job for a little while. Coming home an hour later each day doesnt sound like much, but when you have kids it can throw things off significantly and your partner will have to deal with these changes and pick up your slack. They can't be half in, they need to be all-in just like you.

[Danno]

If I want to make the Joneses jealous I just do yard work out front with my shirt off.

Tgapp would appreciate a phone call next time.

[fastfred]

I just saw this thrad and it really hits home for me. I know I’m late to the party like two weeks, but I sure as shit have been running my whole being a day late a dollar short. So Fred is going to take a back seat for a second and the other guy is going to comment. I deal with this same crap day in and day out and agonize over work related decisions every day I wake up.
On one hand I enjoy stuffing hundreds into my mattress the flip side is I hate having to work like the end of the world is around the corner. There is no halfway button anymore when it comes to work. I’m all in and desperately want to give every day 110%.

I spent my 20’s being the biggest ski bum ever and I look back today and wish I could go back in time. The kicker is, I can. I’m just too scared to do it. My expenses are low I can easily and happily live like a dirt bag. The flip side is picking out furniture, a pimp van, and great vacations. Not sure that all adds up, or what it adds up too. I like to give climberevan some shit for being such a dirt bag, but deep down maybe I’m jealous that he can just sit on the sidelines and be content.

Successfully managing millions of dollars a year is a feather in my cap. When do you throw in the towel and say enough? Now that (cough cough) I’m in my late forties and fifty is at my door step I have suddenly realized that yeah, the fifties are where you are at the top of your career and can easily make bank if your that person. Why do I walk away? Why do you make changes for more money?
For a number of years I said I would retire at fifty and start the second phase of my life, maybe a greater at Walmart? Maybe work in an auto shop two days a week for fun? Maybe just travel.

[singlesline]

When do you throw in the towel and say enough?

That's what I don't get about most of the senior people at my company, especially those that are at or above "standard" retirement age.

Why are they still at work? Their kids are long done with college, I know they have plenty of money...what is another year of income buying them that they can't already afford?

It is not like they are professors or some job like that where I can understand the drive to keep doing research/teaching students into their 70s...they are working in an office (or home office) in front of a computer on things that 99% of the world doesn't care about.

I suppose I should be grateful because they stick around and bring in clients and run projects...but I don't think I'd be doing that.

For Dantheman's offer, I feel like he should take it unless the prospect of being the head honcho is something he seriously does not want to do. It is good money, good experience, and it is probably a pretty good influence on the 14 year old to see dad doing something like that. Once the kid is done with college, have a plan for what you actually want out of the job--when is retirement on the table, can you reduce to part time or seasonal status, can you bank the money and transition to a "retirement" job.

[Dantheman]

Well, it took a while but I did it, start Monday. Left my previous company on excellent terms and was told repeatedly on the way out that I have a standing offer to come back any time no questions asked. So, not much to lose really. This is going to be quite a ride.

In terms of money/time balance, I'm getting 160 hrs of PTO annually which is the same as before, but this company also does separate sick pay on top of PTO (80 hrs/yr) and does two more paid holidays per year (both during ski season).

[Danno]

FKNA, Dan, congrats!

[NBABUCKS1]

congrats dantheman, literally nothing to lose.

any other openings there?

[Hopeless Sinner]

Congrats!

[rideit]

Group ride Tuesday morning at 8:00, Red Butte parking lot.

Be there.

[XXX-er]

That's what I don't get about most of the senior people at my company, especially those that are at or above "standard" retirement age.

Why are they still at work? Their kids are long done with college, I know they have plenty of money...what is another year of income buying them that they can't already afford?

It is not like they are professors or some job like that where I can understand the drive to keep doing research/teaching students into their 70s...they are working in an office (or home office) in front of a computer on things that 99% of the world doesn't care about.

I suppose I should be grateful because they stick around and bring in clients and run projects...but I don't think I'd be doing that.

For Dantheman's offer, I feel like he should take it unless the prospect of being the head honcho is something he seriously does not want to do. It is good money, good experience, and it is probably a pretty good influence on the 14 year old to see dad doing something like that. Once the kid is done with college, have a plan for what you actually want out of the job--when is retirement on the table, can you reduce to part time or seasonal status, can you bank the money and transition to a "retirement" job.

simple , they are habituated TO show up for work in front of a nice warm screen where people give them positive validation AKA blow smoke up their assholes

when i retired/ was rightsized I would talk to a whole bunch of recent retirees of all kinds and maybe 10-20 % actualy liked it

to sum it up the people who could not afford/ did not qualify to retire would know/ could tell you what they would do in retirement,

the people who actualy could afford and did qualify, did not want to retire

[Dantheman]

any other openings there?

It's a new, growing office. If serious, PM me.