K2 recon pro/team boot?

[FloridaSnow]

I'm just trying to read through the lines here. Is there a Recon Team(140) with Tech fittings and a Boa lower next season? 25.5 around now?

that was my ideal set up. Got an insane deal on the recon 130boa I couldn’t pass up. $480 shipped US new.

[CHAIR_97]

Pretty sure the 130 and and the 140 are the same shell just has a dealymbob on the tongue of the 140

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[FloridaSnow]

Pretty sure the 130 and and the 140 are the same shell just has a dealymbob on the tongue of the 140

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

as long as theyre both buckle versions. Boa uses a dedicated mold for the shell. They didn’t just slap boa onto the buckle molds like others.

[onenerdykid]

They didn’t just slap boa onto the buckle molds like others.

No brand that uses BOA has done this. Every shell mold that uses BOA is a made-for-BOA-mold.

[FloridaSnow]

No brand that uses BOA has done this. Every shell mold that uses BOA is a made-for-BOA-mold.

that’s very interesting. When did atomic change this because this is a direct quote from you on NS.

“What boots were you comparing side by side? The same exact boot but one with buckles and one with BOA? As far as I am aware, only Atomic and Fischer are using the same mold for both closure systems. Salomon isn't and I believe the buckle versions of the K2 are also a different mold series- Tom let me know if that's not the case.”

you stated both atomic and Fischer are using the same mold for both boa and buckle.

[onenerdykid]

that’s very interesting. When did atomic change this because this is a direct quote from you on NS.

“What boots were you comparing side by side? The same exact boot but one with buckles and one with BOA? As far as I am aware, only Atomic and Fischer are using the same mold for both closure systems. Salomon isn't and I believe the buckle versions of the K2 are also a different mold series- Tom let me know if that's not the case.”

you stated both atomic and Fischer are using the same mold for both boa and buckle.

Probably an instance of posting before coffee. What I meant is that you can get the same generation boot (Hawx Ultra XTD) in either BOA or buckle configurations. With K2 & Salomon, you are (currently) getting an older generation boot equipped with buckles, and a new generation boot with BOA - two different ages/vintages/generations of boots. Their buckle boot is not the same boot as the BOA boot. With Atomic, you are getting the same generation boot, either available with buckles or BOA. This means we made a BOA mold and a buckle mold for the new generation boot. You can see this when you look at our boot: the BOA version has protective ramps and BOA hardware mounting locations integrated into the shell. The buckle version has it's own hardware mounting locations integrated into the shell. Sorry for the confusion.

[FloridaSnow]

Probably an instance of posting before coffee. What I meant is that you can get the same generation boot (Hawx Ultra XTD) in either BOA or buckle configurations. With K2 & Salomon, you are (currently) getting an older generation boot equipped with buckles, and a new generation boot with BOA - two different ages/vintages/generations of boots. Their buckle boot is not the same boot as the BOA boot. With Atomic, you are getting the same generation boot, either available with buckles or BOA. This means we made a BOA mold and a buckle mold for the new generation boot. You can see this when you look at our boot: the BOA version has protective ramps and BOA hardware mounting locations integrated into the shell. The buckle version has its own hardware mounting locations integrated into the shell. Sorry for the confusion.

ok that makes more sense. The way you worded it originally made it sound like one mold was being used for both buckles and boa etc.

my main point was since they used two different mold for the team vs boa recon that needs to be taking into account when comparing The fit between those two models

[mntlion]

if anyone wants the boots from the K2 site shipped to 'merica, I can help. Odds are $50 ish in shipping.

Seems like some great deals if you do the exchange?

[tompietrowski]

It looks like the BOA is not offered for the Recon Team. Is that correct? Tom can you speak to if that was a decision to make it better for short tours or for a different reason?

Recon/Anthem Team (now Recon 140 BOA and Anthem 125 BOA) will be available in the 2024/25 season. It is also updated with the Intuition BOA wrap Liner! Manon just got 2nd at the FWT in the Anthem 125 BOA this past weekend.

[tompietrowski]

Tom, can you talk about the reason co molding and over molding were used? I have consistently found that boots that use these molding techniques are more prone to failure than those that don’t. It also makes the boot worse for doing dramatic boot work too as those layers can separate.

What are the advantages of using multiple mouldings and what are the challenges of getting what you need out of a single molding?

Great question! So to start with for the new BOA shells we no longer use over molding we only use co-molding. For those unsure over molding is where a part is injected in a separate mold first then added to the last and the shell is then molded over this part. We use to use this process for the heel insert on buckle shells but changed to a pure co-molding process on BOA shells. Co-molding is where different materials can be injected in the same mold and they can form a chemical bond between the different layers. This will generally allow for a stronger overall process than over molding.

The reason we choose to use co-molding in this series of boots is to allow use to create a shell which is lighter weight while maintaining the ski characteristics we desire from this range of boots and also to allow the ease of entry. To make a boot lighter you generally need to go for a thinner shell wall, doing so means you need to use a much higher flex modulus to get the desired flex performance from the shell. High flex modulus is possible but it can make the boots very hard to get on and off and also they tend to conform and wrap less well which is not something we want with BOA. Instead we choose to use the very stiff material in the base of the shell and then move to lower flex modulus for the mid foot and even softer for the instep. This allows us to use the material we want in each section. You get the stability and support from the lower shell. Stability mixed with conformability in the mid and ease of entry from the instep. This is not something that is possible with a single injection and we feel this allows us to build a great light weight boot for this category. It is not something we will use in our new LV "race inspired" boots those will just use a soft instep but we feel for this consumer co-molding offers some good advantages.

Now with anything yes there are cons, you may see a few more failures but we closely keep records of this and currently we are at around the 0.05% failure rate. We may see a slightly lower rate if we went to a single injection however we also would not be able to build the boot to have all the features I listed above. As for fitting there really should be nothing you cant do. You can punch really hard right along the parting lines and they will not open up as there is not a physical seam. You can actually punch and do more work than if we used the higher flex modulus for the whole shell.

So pro and cons but we believe that the pros of what we can build out weigh the cons.

[tompietrowski]

ok that makes more sense. The way you worded it originally made it sound like one mold was being used for both buckles and boa etc.

my main point was since they used two different mold for the team vs boa recon that needs to be taking into account when comparing The fit between those two models

Matt answered already but Ill point out why we use two different tools. We believe you need a different shell solution for buckles and BOA so that is why we choose to use different tools. Currently we have no demand for buckle boots compared to BOA so we dont see a need to update our buckle tooling at this time. But yes our buckle and BOA shells are not fully comparable and never will be as even if we do decide to update a buckle boot down the road we will not use the same shell solution as the BOA boot as the closure systems are so different.

[tompietrowski]

Pretty sure the 130 and and the 140 are the same shell just has a dealymbob on the tongue of the 140

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

120-140 use the same lower shell but we change the cuff and most importantly the liner. The liner makes a big difference in how the boot flex's.