Why do proforms suck now?

[jackstraw]

Yeah, funny how that works. I dont really try any more. I consider the fact that i make a lot more now than i did in a ski shop reason enough to let the kids have at those deals. I still take them when they come my way, but it is fewer and fewer. The good old days were good.

Just another way that the ski bum is getting squeezed out from the ski towns. Pretty soon all the Dentists and Lawyers are gonna be skiing around on DPSs with dried out bases and rounded edges because they aint got anyone to tune their shit.

Yup.

And the fully automated tuning machines have made the shop tuner essentially obsolete.

[skiracer88_00]

Is Expert Voice the new Sniagrab?

Not going to lie, I use expertvoice all the time. I am a ski coach and used to get access from my USSA (USSS) coaches membership. Some of the deals are not great (<30% or so), but some are in the 50% range, which is consistent with historic pro deals from my ski instructing days in high school and college.

Now I am an IFSA coach without a USSS membership, and IFSA doesn't seem to partner with expertvoice.

but...

I am also an assistant scoutmaster for my son's boy scout troop and requalified by sending them my BSA membership card.

I get the same deals on ski gear through that as I got when I was registered with USSA. I get the feeling this is just seen as a revenue stream for most brands. They get to move lots of gear at a slight markup from what they sell to retailers. The extremely low barrier to entry is only there so brands can wave the flag at retailers that they aren't truly undercutting them on the open market.

[phatty]

Not going to lie, I use expertvoice all the time. I am a ski coach and used to get access from my USSA (USSS) coaches membership. Some of the deals are not great (<30% or so), but some are in the 50% range, which is consistent with historic pro deals from my ski instructing days in high school and college.

Now I am an IFSA coach without a USSS membership, and IFSA doesn't seem to partner with expertvoice.

but...

I am also an assistant scoutmaster for my son's boy scout troop and requalified by sending them my BSA membership card.

I get the same deals on ski gear through that as I got when I was registered with USSA. I get the feeling this is just seen as a revenue stream for most brands. They get to move lots of gear at a slight markup from what they sell to retailers. The extremely low barrier to entry is only there so brands can wave the flag at retailers that they aren't truly undercutting them on the open market.

I had a slightly different experience. I had access to Experticity thru two different organizations. 1 was for being a ski instructor the other was through my employer. The ski group gave access to more companies and gave higher discounts then my employer group.

One thing I noticed was that these offers often would not include the "latest/greatest". So yes, the offers are broader but not always equal among the various groups.

These tools also make auditing easy. I stopped teaching a few years ago and all of my old deals are cut off thru their mechanisms.

[adrian.bee]

More customers, less inventory, more inflation, more internet, more (bad) shops, more influencers

[justcuz]

For some reason i feel the need to chime in. I’ve either worked at a shop or been a patroller since 1998. Yes, pro deals have changed in a frustrating way. I both worked at a shop and patrol to be able to afford to ski. Free passes and cheap gear through my work was the only reason I was able to ski for a lot of seasons in a row (and this place, honestly). Times have changed and I’m more stable financially, but I still patrol and appreciate some discounts, but the hardgoods discounts piss me off. I’m sure I’m old and jaded but wtf. After 25 years seems like I’ve earned it. But alas, tgr is more fun anyway.

I’ve sold hundreds of skis/boots/goggles—-you name it because people really do ask. If you’re a decent human and an ok skier, patroller, instructor, or whatever….people do actually listen. But at this point the discounts suck, and I’d honestly rather just have a referral bonus in the form of credit. THAT would separate the folks milking it from others who are actually helping shops and oems.

If marshal is right, and I think he is, that this has turned to a sales line item, then reward me for selling your shit.

Otherwise I have zero loyalty in a world where, to the average consumer, absolutely everything looks the same and is confusing.


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[Rob Stokes]

I don't think I refer people to a certain brand often, but as a patroller I certainly recommend certain shops in town to people.

Whether it's for rentals, boot fitting or hardgoods people often ask for recommendations.

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[Mustonen]

For some reason i feel the need to chime in. I’ve either worked at a shop or been a patroller since 1998. Yes, pro deals have changed in a frustrating way. I both worked at a shop and patrol to be able to afford to ski. Free passes and cheap gear through my work was the only reason I was able to ski for a lot of seasons in a row (and this place, honestly). Times have changed and I’m more stable financially, but I still patrol and appreciate some discounts, but the hardgoods discounts piss me off. I’m sure I’m old and jaded but wtf. After 25 years seems like I’ve earned it. But alas, tgr is more fun anyway.

I’ve sold hundreds of skis/boots/goggles—-you name it because people really do ask. If you’re a decent human and an ok skier, patroller, instructor, or whatever….people do actually listen. But at this point the discounts suck, and I’d honestly rather just have a referral bonus in the form of credit. THAT would separate the folks milking it from others who are actually helping shops and oems.

If marshal is right, and I think he is, that this has turned to a sales line item, then reward me for selling your shit.

Otherwise I have zero loyalty in a world where, to the average consumer, absolutely everything looks the same and is confusing.


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Word.

I sell the shit out of the gear I rock. I’m constantly amazed at who and how many are paying attention to what I have on my feet. I wear the hell out of smith because those guys are good to us and give me cheap tshirts. There are a half dozen other brands who have similarly supported my ability to outfit myself and my family when otherwise it would have been hand me downs and duct tape.

There’s a whole economy built out of volunteers and staff who get paid nothing to bullshit and keeping them supplied makes a difference. Maybe only for 20% of us, and of those only a few are actually being emulated, but that’s just marketing anyways, right? Half of the money you spend is wasted, problem is, you don’t know which half.

It’s the influencers before influencers. Maybe that’s dying, but I can’t see how in the chaos of today. I’ll rep whoever supports those who are putting something into the sport. Otherwise I’ll just buy whatever justcuz is using. How else am I supposed to know the difference?

[XXX-er]

Is any patroler or instructor or ski shop worker going to be skiing the skis they will recommend to a newby, I doubt it so i don't really doubt they will influence newby ?

I think some people get/ got deals on gear and so those people are just pretty lucky IMO but if you are whining you no longer get proform maybe you are just entitled ?

I don't think anybody is really worth the $$ except my local buddy Claire the rossi ambasador gets skis and the clothing, she also ski coach/ ski instructor/ fitness coach influencer, but she looks good enough skiing to have 15 magazine covers

[Core Shot]

^^^ big difference between pro form which used to be wholesale and pro athlete influencers that get free gear and money for projects

30 off pro form bullshit. I think it’s retailers complaining.
Son works bikes. Shop gives him 20 off which sucks. He’s scored pro forms from 30 to 50. He doesn’t buy any 30. He knows it’s a shit deal. But some of the 50 off he can buy $8k a year. He could be flipping forks or wheels or drivetrains on eBay. But he won’t.

PS. My employees get cost plus 10 on anything for them or their family.

[GoSlowGoFar]

Can’t speak to the OP and his experience in Canada but I think “real proforms” - read staff deals at retailers, patrol deals, etc. - are still pretty solid. If you’re talking the generic Experticity deals then yeah, those have always generally sucked. It seems that a few folks hit the nail on the head that the latter is just seen as another revenue stream.

I’m not in the know but for the larger manufacturers, it seems that they value volume and moving product over margins which makes sense they’re on the ExpertVoice websites where anyone can get a “prodeal” thus allowing them to move more product.

[skiracer88_00]

Can’t speak to the OP and his experience in Canada but I think “real proforms” - read staff deals at retailers, patrol deals, etc. - are still pretty solid. If you’re talking the generic Experticity deals then yeah, those have always generally sucked. It seems that a few folks hit the nail on the head that the latter is just seen as another revenue stream.

I’m not in the know but for the larger manufacturers, it seems that they value volume and moving product over margins which makes sense they’re on the ExpertVoice websites where anyone can get a “prodeal” thus allowing them to move more product.

From the manufacturer perspective, their margins from Expert Voice are as good if not better than selling to retailers. Its a win-win for them.