Steep and Scary Ski Mountaineering, Traverses and Expeditions Thread

**riff** · 11-20-2023, 05:00 PM

We have a skinny ski refuge and maybe there’s too much overlap here, but do we want to discuss our favorite belay device, building snow/ice anchors, whether Whippets matter, how to travel on glaciers, what rope to buy etc? How to keep your feet warm, what to bring for repair, tents, stoves, packs, mapping software, trip planning….
This might be an untapped source of things to decide on and then be a dick about. Folks are stoked on Cody’s projects, I bet some of you are cooking up aspirational outings for the season and the NA skiing is just getting underway - no need to reveal locations or specific plans, but a discussion of the finer points of skills and gear could be diverting.
I’m a recovering ultralight bro who’s now interested in stuff that works in all conditions and lasts. Let’s talk about it!

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

**muted reborn** · 11-20-2023, 05:06 PM

What device do you all use for satellite tracking and messaging? I can't get my In Reach (first version) to connect to my phone for messaging and it's driving me crazy. I mainly need it for texting stuff like "camping here" "back at the car" and SOS, but getting a device that also has a screen with a map might be a nice upgrade, presuming it's battery will last days, instead of using my phone's offline maps.

**alive** · 11-20-2023, 05:30 PM

Whippets mater!
That’s about all I can add for now, but looking forward to this thread.

**zion zig zag** · 11-20-2023, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by muted reborn

What device do you all use for satellite tracking and messaging? I can't get my In Reach (first version) to connect to my phone for messaging and it's driving me crazy. I mainly need it for texting stuff like "camping here" "back at the car" and SOS, but getting a device that also has a screen with a map might be a nice upgrade, presuming it's battery will last days, instead of using my phone's offline maps.

I use an InReach Mini. Seems to connect to my phone pretty easily every time I try it, but for the messages you describe, I just use the preset texts in the device. When I got it I edited some of the preset options in the device for things I'd most often want to communicate and I use those 90% of the time.

As far as using maps, if I'm going to be out for days, I still use my phone and carry a battery charger that will charge the phone 3-4 times. In airplane mode, and just using maps and camera the phone will usually last two days per charge.

**fleaches** · 11-20-2023, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by muted reborn

What device do you all use for satellite tracking and messaging? I can't get my In Reach (first version) to connect to my phone for messaging and it's driving me crazy. I mainly need it for texting stuff like "camping here" "back at the car" and SOS, but getting a device that also has a screen with a map might be a nice upgrade, presuming it's battery will last days, instead of using my phone's offline maps.

Inreach mini here. Never had an issue connecting to my phone, but sometimes takes a while to get a message out.

Interesting tidbit that I came across but can't verify is that supposedly your inreach will lock onto satellites much more quickly if you connect your phone to it while in civilization, before heading out. Something about it downloading satellite coordinates for the next several days. Again can't really verify, but anecdotally this has helped.

For maps I like the combo of a garmin watch + phone. You can't really see all the details on the watch, but it's enough to keep me from pulling my phone out all the time. I can load a path on there or keep out zones and at least make sure I'm on the right track, and having the breadcrumbs trail to follow back makes it a lot harder to get lost. Then the phone can mostly stay in my warm pocket.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

**riff** · 11-20-2023, 06:26 PM

I’ve had issues with the Inreach a while back but not lately; definitely want to update the Earthmate app and test it at home first.

I mainly use Gaia because its easy to build routes, and it was initially designed for iphone so it seems quite smooth to me. Switching between the various layers especially satellite helps me lay out routes.

I use a small folding solar panel for anything over four days out; then i carry a smaller battery and just keep it charged all the time instead of a bigger battery and no panel on shorter trips. Batteries like the same temp range as us, so pockets on base layers are GOLD. Charge/discharge warm batteries for best efficiency, wait til your phone is below 20% to charge and unplug it before 80% for max performance from your booster battery. Airplane mode, (make sure cell service is actually off) battery saver mode, all apps off and paper maps for maximum battery life.

I like my whippet although its no substitute for an actual tool when climbing etc- but comforting when you have it. I just got the new one that’s removable and it’s bueno.

Anecdotally the times I’ve self arrested were accomplished with odds and ends that came to hand, not the actual tool. 🤨

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

**tang** · 11-20-2023, 06:42 PM

Subscribed!
Me… zoleo, gaia map and I rarely ski with a whippet (dont think it’ll stop me) but keep it in the pack as mini axe if needed on the up (if I don’t bring a real axe). One of the detachable whippets.
Zoleo has worked well for messaging and getting weather updates on multi day outings.

**tgapp** · 11-20-2023, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by fleaches

Inreach mini here. Never had an issue connecting to my phone, but sometimes takes a while to get a message out.

Interesting tidbit that I came across but can't verify is that supposedly your inreach will lock onto satellites much more quickly if you connect your phone to it while in civilization, before heading out. Something about it downloading satellite coordinates for the next several days. Again can't really verify, but anecdotally this has helped.

For maps I like the combo of a garmin watch + phone. You can't really see all the details on the watch, but it's enough to keep me from pulling my phone out all the time. I can load a path on there or keep out zones and at least make sure I'm on the right track, and having the breadcrumbs trail to follow back makes it a lot harder to get lost. Then the phone can mostly stay in my warm pocket.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

What Garmin watch do you use? Looking to potentially start doing something like that

Also subbed. Great thread. Not really a skinny ski mag but definitely a pokey things one.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

**Jeb McHardman** · 11-20-2023, 07:34 PM

I don't have particularly strong opinions on whippets, but I have become violently opposed to bringing aluminum axes/tools or crampons when there is any chance of encountering technical ice or mixed terrain. No amount of weight-savings is worth scratching up an AI3 pitch with a single Camp Corsa and skimo crampons...

**muted reborn** · 11-20-2023, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by zion zig zag

I use an InReach Mini. Seems to connect to my phone pretty easily every time I try it, but for the messages you describe, I just use the preset texts in the device. When I got it I edited some of the preset options in the device for things I'd most often want to communicate and I use those 90% of the time.

As far as using maps, if I'm going to be out for days, I still use my phone and carry a battery charger that will charge the phone 3-4 times. In airplane mode, and just using maps and camera the phone will usually last two days per charge.

Thanks - I have issues connecting it to my computer too though and right now I can only text myself, ha. Can't change the preset options yet. Long story. Might upgrade to the mini 2 to see if that solves things

I guess I won't sell my Mini here after telling this story.

**BFD** · 11-20-2023, 08:43 PM

i used to live for ski traverses. Have done quite a few in AK. Most of the trips pale in comparison to what is being done now. Gear is not my thing, but know something about glacier travel, pulling sleds , building snow shelters and trip planning in AK. My son has some type of in reach. I think a mini. Seems to work great, he can set it so it updates every 30 minutes so I can follow him on a map. 30 years ago this passed for stoke.
Mount Thor, North Ridge, Chugach Range, Winter Ascent. Leo Ameri cus
and I spent four days skiing the 32 miles to the base of the north side of Mount
Thor via the Nelchina and Sylvester Glaciers, starting on February 10. From
there we made the first winter ascent of the north ridge, which rises 3750 feet
from 8500 feet on the Sylvester Glacier. Thor (3734 meters, 12,251 feet) is the
third highest peak of the Chugach Range. A storm moved in. A window in the
multiple fronts opened on the sixth day and allowed us to climb. The first 1500
feet were a well defined ridge of blue ice and rotten snow, sometimes knifeedged, with a drop of 1000 feet or more on both sides and at a 35° to 50° angle.
The ridge broadened as it met the north face, crossing a 250-yard area of
crevasses. The upper 2250 feet were on good snow. We summited on February
16 after only six hours, having placed one ice screw on the lower section. We
spent three days skiing 33 miles out the Powell Glacier to the south fork of the
Matanuska River.
John Bauman, Unaffiliated

**riff** · 11-20-2023, 08:46 PM

I went by Thor in April, stunning place on the planet. Skied down the Powell to the South Fork too, hell of a way to finish a week and a half out there- Much respect to you sir!

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

**BFD** · 11-20-2023, 08:55 PM

I saw your TR. You never told me if the old Playboys were still in Meekin's hunting cabin at the toe of the Powell.

**Going Coastal** · 11-20-2023, 09:02 PM

I have been curious for a while if people using inReach, etc.. are also packing PLB's still (if they ever did).

I work in SAR and we receive PLB alerts directly, but they dont seem that common outside of some specific communities. We definitely get more alerts about rec activities from the sat monitoring companies now, at least in my area.

**fleaches** · 11-20-2023, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by tgapp

What Garmin watch do you use? Looking to potentially start doing something like that

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

Fenix 5x+ I think. The newer ones look like they have much better screens, but are $$$. The older models can be found for a lot less.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

**riff** · 11-20-2023, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by BFD

I saw your TR. You never told me if the old Playboys were still in Meekin's hunting cabin at the toe of the Powell.

We didn’t see em, maybe next time! Hoping to fly with Meekins this spring to preview our next attempt, i’ll ask him….

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

**kamtron** · 11-21-2023, 12:36 AM

I haven't been doing a lot of overnight trips lately but really do enjoy lightening the glacier kit with a Rad line. It is worth practicing with due to the extra skinniness.

Axes--I prefer to bring one over a whippet. I have one of those superlight Petzl gully, which is sweet, but man it sucks to use the square spike in hard snow. Climbing up the Park headwall last near in snow that was hard crusted over but would sometimes blow out on my feet had me really gripped. I couldn't get a solid self-belay without bashing the spike in multiple times. Eek.

Lightweight pack and skins has really helped me feel better on the long days.

Experience and badass partners definitely are the ultimate gear!

**suncrustable** · 11-21-2023, 04:57 AM

Good timing on this thread. Also pretty happy with gaia + inreach mini, though the web/desktop version of gaia drives me nuts.

What are people using for tents? Specifically thinking of short trips in the PNW with reasonably good weather forecast. Been looking at pyramids and the classic MSR/BD 4 season offerings.

**Foggy_Goggles** · 11-21-2023, 08:25 AM

@muted I'm pretty familiar with the InReach Mini. They are widely adopted in the paragliding community. I have not heard of an real issues pairing via Bluetooth to the phone. We have a thread for that. If you want some help troubleshooting, let me know and we can do it off line.

**rod9301** · 11-21-2023, 08:30 AM

I use a tarptent scarp 1. One or two people can sleep in it, 2 1/2 lbs. Double wall, really solid tent.
And the inner and outer set up at the same time, so it's really fast and nothing gets wet when setting it up in the rain.

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

**davjr96** · 11-21-2023, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by suncrustable

What are people using for tents? Specifically thinking of short trips in the PNW with reasonably good weather forecast. Been looking at pyramids and the classic MSR/BD 4 season offerings.

Picked up one of these earlier this summer https://www.slingfin.com/products/hotbox. Unfortunately the trips I had planned got cancelled for various life reasons so no on-mountain experience yet, but it feels very nice and high quality. I had an MSR Advanced Pro 2 previously and can already tell this is much more livable and flexible with the double wall construction for only a slight weight penalty. Some experiences from others here https://www.mountainproject.com/foru...x-tent-reviews

**Yukonrider** · 11-21-2023, 09:02 AM

My question is: How do you get started in this type of skiing? I've dipped my toe and had a blast, but I have two issues currently.

1. How do you find easier routes, it seems to go from zero to hero pretty quickly

2. And a bit harder, none of my primary ski partners seem into this and I don't think I would trust the ski acquaintances.

**tgapp** · 11-21-2023, 09:06 AM

I have a Crux assault x1 that I absolutely love. Used it for years and found it to be nearly perfect as a bivy tent. I do wish it was a little bit taller inside but the thing is an absolute bomb shelter and surprisingly roomie for two. Also I wish it was any color other than black.

http://www.crux.us.com/product/x1-assault

Minor gripes though especially when the ease of setup, lack of condensation, strength, and vestibule are all world class.

Pictured on top of Liberty Cap a few years back

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

**riff** · 11-21-2023, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by suncrustable

Good timing on this thread. Also pretty happy with gaia + inreach mini, though the web/desktop version of gaia drives me nuts.

What are people using for tents? Specifically thinking of short trips in the PNW with reasonably good weather forecast. Been looking at pyramids and the classic MSR/BD 4 season offerings.

If you’re ok without a floor, I really like my Mountain Laurel Design Supermid, in silnylon. I wore out a Hyperlite Ultamid in 40 days of use, due to wind shredding the dyneema. I’ve got the same number of days on the Supermid now and it’s going strong, and cost less than half of the Ultamid. 20 ounces all in.

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

**riff** · 11-21-2023, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by Yukonrider

My question is: How do you get started in this type of skiing? I've dipped my toe and had a blast, but I have two issues currently.

1. How do you find easier routes, it seems to go from zero to hero pretty quickly

2. And a bit harder, none of my primary ski partners seem into this and I don't think I would trust the ski acquaintances.

Hmmm, interesting question; I keep a list of stuff i want to work up to- long day trips, multi day, and totally off the wall aspirations. I work through the long day trips when a small weather windows go by, with partners that are willing to try. Win some, lose some, get stoked . As the experiences and skill set starts to feel satisfying, begin stepping into the bigger attempts with the partners that have gained the most interest and aptitude.

I’m lucky to be in an area with plenty of glaciers and excellent spring skiing options, which can be a nice way to reduce some of the stress over weather and stability, and long days are nice too.

I like flipping through old guidebooks or chatting with long term locals for ideas, extended map gazing sessions (this is a big one) and stuff you see from day tours and summer outings. Eventually the exploration and occasionally excellent ski lines start to snowball into a life absorbing search for weather windows and partners. Good luck!

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums