Steep and Scary Ski Mountaineering, Traverses and Expeditions Thread

[Tjaardbreeuwer]

My strategy is Leopard + Gully if there’s a chance of needing pointy things and then Irvis Hybrid + Sum Tec if pointy things expected/required.

I don’t own a (modern) all aluminum crampon (the old Camp pair I have is heavier than my Irvin’s hybrids), but if I did, I would choose more based on expected surface underfoot than on likelyhood of using them.
If there is any chance of pure rock, I wouldn’t want to have all aluminum crampons on.

I’d say that’s the nice thing about the Petzl system: fully modular, so you can mix and match pieces as needed, without having to buy an entire new set.

The Dynafit DNA crampons seem cool, they are even lighter then the Blue Ice Harfangs.
(Make sure to compare bare weights, without antibots).

But what I don’t like is their lack of a heel anti-balling plate. In my experience, if ever there is a need for anti balling, it is on the heel, on flat/traversing terrain, or descending. I get these are aimed at ski mountaineering, so mostly you will only use them in the ascent, but still, you might have a ridge walk, which includes up and down sections. Or the snow is too thin or icy to ski down, so you walk down a section.
If I bought them, I’d try and make my own heel anti-bots.

[PinyonJuniper5]

I have made 10-15 rappels with the ATC alpine guide on the 6mm RAD line and have found it to provide sufficient friction for most ski applications.

I really like using the method pictured below, which adds quite a bit of friction to the system, that can be easily taken away (at a secure stance) if I find it to be too much. Used it with just the RAD line on the free hanging rap on the grand this summer, and felt very comfortable. I always use an extension and a backup when rapping too, which I think helps a lot with this skinny of a rope.




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[Shred Baron]

I have made 10-15 rappels with the ATC alpine guide on the 6mm RAD line and have found it to provide sufficient friction for most ski applications.

I really like using the method pictured below, which adds quite a bit of friction to the system, that can be easily taken away (at a secure stance) if I find it to be too much. Used it with just the RAD line on the free hanging rap on the grand this summer, and felt very comfortable. I always use an extension and a backup when rapping too, which I think helps a lot with this skinny of a rope.




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What do you use for a backup? Would a 5mm prusik loop bite? Do you make loops from even smaller cord?


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[PinyonJuniper5]

What do you use for a backup? Would a 5mm prusik loop bite? Do you make loops from even smaller cord?
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I use a 6.8mm sterling hollowblock loop tied in a autoblock configuration. It is an aramid sheath without a core, so it flexes a lot and grabs skinny ropes really well. I haven’t tried a 5mm prussic, but from my experience on thicker ropes, that won’t grab as well as the hollowblock.

The only disadvantage to the hollowblock that I have found is in its ability to work as a rope clamp/ascender on an icy rope. So if I need to carry crevasse rescue gear, I would carry a tibloc/nano trax for sure. That said, the same disadvantage applies to the 5mm cord as well, although that might work marginally better than the hollowblock in that situation.


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[riff]

You guys might enjoy :

ropelitellc.com




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[hafjell]

I have made 10-15 rappels with the ATC alpine guide on the 6mm RAD line and have found it to provide sufficient friction for most ski applications.

I really like using the method pictured below, which adds quite a bit of friction to the system, that can be easily taken away (at a secure stance) if I find it to be too much. Used it with just the RAD line on the free hanging rap on the grand this summer, and felt very comfortable. I always use an extension and a backup when rapping too, which I think helps a lot with this skinny of a rope.

Free hanging in the pictured configuration at how much weight? You plus gear? Should be enough for rapping over almost 90 degree frozen water falls / ice bulges? You ever throw in an extra carabiner from belay loop through rope? Iow, two orange carabiners instead of just one? I hate slick raps.

[jacob_dbu]

Cool thread, subscribing. Love these kind of adventures!

[PinyonJuniper5]

Free hanging in the pictured configuration at how much weight? You plus gear? Should be enough for rapping over almost 90 degree frozen water falls / ice bulges? You ever throw in an extra carabiner from belay loop through rope? Iow, two orange carabiners instead of just one? I hate slick raps.

I weight about 180 and had a 15ish lb pack on. I was using the pictured configuration but with an extension and backup. I have tried using an extra carabiner through the rope (two carabiners, more friction) but not with the carabiner through the guide hole. I’m not sure that would even work well. I think the method pictured above is more friction than just two carabiners through the rope though.


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[Tjaardbreeuwer]

Just got my Ropelite Prussiks last night. Until now, I have been using Beal Jammy 5mm (solid aramid) prussiks. Will see if these work better. The Jammy’s seemed to work ok for me, both with the Scream and with a Munter.
Maybe I will try icing my ropes down, I have not tried that yet.

I also ordered an ATC alpine, and Mago 8 to compare to the Scream. Once those arrive, I’ll do a couple rappel tests to compare. I’ll try that set up from Pinyon as well, I’d never thought of that before.

I only have the Mammut Glacier cord and Edelrid Rapline Protect though, so if you are using something like the Petzl Pur line, I won’t be able to tell you anything.

[riff]

I have some Ropelite prusiks coming too, and a Whoopie in the works to use as a personal tether and for ascending. Will report!


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[auvgeek]

I don’t own a (modern) all aluminum crampon (the old Camp pair I have is heavier than my Irvin’s hybrids), but if I did, I would choose more based on expected surface underfoot than on likelyhood of using them.
If there is any chance of pure rock, I wouldn’t want to have all aluminum crampons on.

Yeah, my post was misleading. That's what I get for posting while (fitness) skinning. You are obviously correct. I haven't used the Leopard on rock, and, if I put them in the pack as a backup plan, that means snow only. Like "you might end up booting a couloir and don't expect to need crampons but might as well throw some in the pack" kind of situation. Not a scenario that's super relevant to this thread.

[Benneke10]

Great thanks a lot guys. Anyone have experience with the Blue Ice Harfang?

Sounds like steel fronts and aluminum heels is a decent compromise for skiing based objectives.

I have them, they are my main crampon but I don't do crazy steep and firm stuff. Similar to the Petzls, the dyneema attachment will loosen up during the first few uses, you can mitigate this by stretching them out beforehand by getting the strap wet while maintaining tension on the boot. I also have the Irvis Hybrid, the annoying thing about the Petzl skimo crampons is that the heelpiece doesn't fit nicely on all boots but that is no problem with the Blue Ice. I am curious about the Dynafit system because it seems more locked in to me to have micro-adjustable steel cables instead of dyneema that can stretch.

The Irvis Hybrid has bigger spikes than the Harfang, and the Dynafit is smaller than both. I wouldn't really want the Dynafit in the real alpine due to the small spikes, but they would probably be a perfect Wasatch and low angle volcano crampon.

[riff]

I have some Ropelite prusiks coming too, and a Whoopie in the works to use as a personal tether and for ascending. Will report!


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[tang]

The ropelite stuff looks cool. Sharp End pod had a good interview with the founder. My beal prusik is pretty stiff and I’m sure wouldn’t work with a skinny rad line-like rope. Ropelite seems more versatile

[Yukonrider]

you can mitigate this by stretching them out beforehand by getting the strap wet while maintaining tension on the boot.

Hot tip, will report back. Just picked up a pair of Irvis for my objective tomorrow. These will work so much better than the vertical ice crampons I've used in the past.

[Blaster]

Do the fine folks of this thread have a preferred lightweight shell glove? Something in the glove form of the Marmot minimalist mitten shell.

My preferred setup for winter camping trips was a glove like that paired with a medium weight liner.

I tried the BD soloist glove but was lukewarm on it as 1) it was far too warm for the places I ski, 2) the fingers were super wide, and 3) the lengthy gauntlet adds a fair amount of bulk.

Stoke for cushy “winter” camping in the high sierra

[abcdethan]

If you are going to invest in a lightweight rope for a team of two or three for glacier travel and rappelling, what length would you choose? I am aware this would change depending on the terrain and objective.

[kamtron]

If you are going to invest in a lightweight rope for a team of two or three for glacier travel and rappelling, what length would you choose? I am aware this would change depending on the terrain and objective.

2x 30 m
Best to have 2 ropes if skiing down unroped.

[riff]

Agreed- lately been pushing for each member of the group to have their own rope


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[kootenayskier]

If you are going to invest in a lightweight rope for a team of two or three for glacier travel and rappelling, what length would you choose? I am aware this would change depending on the terrain and objective.

30m Beal Rando 8mm is lightweight, does what you need, and is cheap. Buy one each.

[Tjaardbreeuwer]

@Blaster, so you are looking for a fully waterproof shell glove?

There are no lightweight, single layer gloves like there are mittens, because you can’t tape all the seams in a glove. So, waterproof gloves will use a single piece waterproof insert, sewn in between an outer fabric layer and a liner fabric.

So, you will have to either settle for something soft shell, not taped, or for a thin waterproof glove, which will have multiple layers, increasing weight and warmth and reducing dexterity and breathability.

[Tjaardbreeuwer]

Agreed- lately been pushing for each member of the group to have their own rope


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Sharp end podcast linked above, with the Ropelite guy, describes how he rescued a skier who had fallen in a crevasse and the victim was the one in the group carrying the rope… ironically the rescuer said he and his partner were doing the same.

Its sort of the same as why you don’t just carry 1 avalanche shovel per party.

[abcdethan]

Sharp end podcast linked above, with the Ropelite guy, describes how he rescued a skier who had fallen in a crevasse and the victim was the one in the group carrying the rope… ironically the rescuer said he and his partner were doing the same.

Its sort of the same as why you don’t just carry 1 avalanche shovel per party.

This is pretty much what I researched. To follow up, what do people recommend for an ultralight ropebag for easy deployment and storage?

[riff]

30m RAD come with their own that works pretty good, I’d guess most drawstring bags of appropriate size would perform similarly….


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[Thesystemsplit]

This is pretty much what I researched. To follow up, what do people recommend for an ultralight ropebag for easy deployment and storage?

dave searle masterclass for RAD line...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFAmzTRo63I