Talk to me about table saws

[toast2266]

I need some cabinets, and after getting some quotes, it seems like I can buy a nice table saw and a bunch of nice wood and still save at least $10k on the project. So I need a table saw that can process full size sheets of plywood with reasonable accuracy, and probably run some dado cuts. And, of course, I'd use the saw for assorted other non-specific projects in the future.

I currently have a dewalt job site saw that works fine, but isn't going to cut it (pun intended) for accurately cutting big pieces of wood.

Am I better off getting an old, heavy cabinet saw off of Craigslist? Newer, smaller, contractor type saw? Worth it to throw down the money for a sawstop? Any noteworthy considerations in this whole process? Is the whole idea dumb and I should just pay out the ass for cabinets?

I'll need to put the saw on a mobile base due to space constraints. I can run either 120 or 240v power, although 120 would be easier.

[Bosco]

Buying used is good if you can find what you want. I bought a new Delta Unisaw for my projects and like it alot. It requires 240v, but the added power is really nice. I think it's also important to get the best scale and fence you can. Being able to trust the scale and knowing the fence is true is a hudge plus in my mind.

I'd also consider a good dust collector, and...

[cravenmorhead]

Table saws are one of the few products that cause more damage in terms of personal injury dollars than they gross in sales every year. So certainly keep that in mind. I think if you plan on doing a lot of work with one, Sawstops are worth the money. They only have to work once.

If you want to do it cheap, used cabinet saws can be found for cheap, and particularly with a narrow kerf blade they have the guts to get the job done. Even with a mediocre fence my old belt drive craftsman 113 can give windowpane-thin cuts. Add a riving knife/splitter - easy to do with an add-on kit. I built a rolling workbench for it that gives me a nice outfeed table, which will be important if you're cutting plywood.

[Bosco]

Regarding safety, I grew up in construction working for my dad and safety was not really considered. When I get a new table saw the first thing I do is remove the blade guard. My main safety rule is no drinking while using tools like table saws, routers, jointers and such. Drinking while sanding and applying finish is OK and sometimes recommended.

I think a Sawstop would be nice to have, but I'd buy a used tablesaw without one if it meet my needs and was at a a good price.

[Stuntmonkey]

I've got a Dewalt jobsite one that's been perfectly fine for everything I've done (basement rebuild including window boxes, cedar strip canoe). If I was going to get another I would spring for the sawstop because I love my fingers, and unless you have a helper cutting down full sheets of plywood is a bitch.

That said, I would 100% you get youself a nice large outfeed table / work table and have the saw at the end of it.

[climberevan]

As a GC/cabinetmaker who is at the moment building a $15k island, I'd suggest buying a track saw instead.

For breaking down sheet goods, unless you have a gigantic sliding table TS, a track saw will be easier, more accurate, and FAR safer. The reality is that controlling a piece of 3/4 Armacore or melamine so that you get a perfectly straight cut with a table saw that you can reasonably put in a garage is nearly impossible.

A table saw is nice for dadoes and for repeated ripping, of course. I wouldn't give up my 60" Powermatic, but a track saw and smaller TS is a much better and more versatile setup.

Last, unless you're pretty experienced at cabinet building and have a TON of other tools that you haven't mentioned, it will take you FOREVER to build a whole kitchen worth of cabs. Do you have an HVLP rig and clean room to finish them? What about an edgebanding machine (for euro style), or a bunch of huge clamps (for face frames)? Etc, etc. Are you unemployed, or is your time otherwise without value?

[Stuntmonkey]

^ He makes a very good point. I use my makita track saw more than I use my table saw. Didn't even consider that option.

[Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo]

As a GC/cabinetmaker who is at the moment building a $15k island, I'd suggest buying a track saw instead.

For breaking down sheet goods, unless you have a gigantic sliding table TS, a track saw will be easier, more accurate, and FAR safer. The reality is that controlling a piece of 3/4 Armacore or melamine so that you get a perfectly straight cut with a table saw that you can reasonably put in a garage is nearly impossible.

A table saw is nice for dadoes and for repeated ripping, of course. I wouldn't give up my 60" Powermatic, but a track saw and smaller TS is a much better and more versatile setup.

Last, unless you're pretty experienced at cabinet building and have a TON of other tools that you haven't mentioned, it will take you FOREVER to build a whole kitchen worth of cabs. Do you have an HVLP rig and clean room to finish them? What about an edgebanding machine (for euro style), or a bunch of huge clamps (for face frames)? Etc, etc. Are you unemployed, or is your time otherwise without value?

I'm not a professional and don't have near Evan's experience but I agree with this. I've built cabinets and furniture both in a nice big shop with a table saw and spacious outfeed, and on my own with a contractors saw and a track saw, and the track saw is really the best for big sheet goods imho. Even with another person and a big outfeed manhandling 4x8 sheets of 3/4 plywood through a table saw can be a bitch and still presents plenty of opportunity to fuck up a cut, or yourself.

[toast2266]

As a GC/cabinetmaker who is at the moment building a $15k island, I'd suggest buying a track saw instead.

For breaking down sheet goods, unless you have a gigantic sliding table TS, a track saw will be easier, more accurate, and FAR safer. The reality is that controlling a piece of 3/4 Armacore or melamine so that you get a perfectly straight cut with a table saw that you can reasonably put in a garage is nearly impossible.

A table saw is nice for dadoes and for repeated ripping, of course. I wouldn't give up my 60" Powermatic, but a track saw and smaller TS is a much better and more versatile setup.

Last, unless you're pretty experienced at cabinet building and have a TON of other tools that you haven't mentioned, it will take you FOREVER to build a whole kitchen worth of cabs. Do you have an HVLP rig and clean room to finish them? What about an edgebanding machine (for euro style), or a bunch of huge clamps (for face frames)? Etc, etc. Are you unemployed, or is your time otherwise without value?

Hmmm, a track saw is certainly an option. Although part of the attraction to a table saw is I can do a bunch of other stuff with it. I use my little job site saw pretty frequently, but it's limited in all kinds of fairly obvious ways. But point taken re: breaking down sheet goods still being a pain in the ass, even with a big saw.

For the cabinets, I'd be doing face framed. And it's actually for a gear room, not a kitchen. Which only matters in that I'm not tearing apart my kitchen and then under some sort of time constraint to get the kitchen back up and running. Cabinets for the gear room can get built at a pretty leisurely pace over the course of this winter (realistically in the evenings when it's cold and dark and there isn't much else to do). I do have a bunch of big clamps, and I've spent enough time finishing doors and trim with a brush for this project that brushing some cabinets is just more of the same (which certainly isn't to say that I enjoy it). All that said, I fully acknowledge that building cabinets is probably going to be more difficult than I expect and they're going to come out shittier than the stuff I'd buy.

edit: but now I'm shopping track saws. This is really the problem with this project - it's just an excuse to buy more tools.

[Bosco]

You cannot buy a track saw instead. You must buy both. Buying woodworking tools is similar to ski equipment, the more the better. However, a track saw makes alot of sense for working with plywood.

[Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo]

You cannot buy a track saw instead. You must buy both. Buying woodworking tools is similar to ski equipment, the more the better.

Thanks for the clarification, I forgot to include that in my post. A new project is the best excuse for new tools.

[toast2266]

I really should have known this is how this thread was going to go. Tech talk is like 30% useful technical advice, and 70% emotional support group for middle aged men buying excessive amounts of tools and gear.

So I appreciate the emotional support in my inevitable decision to buy a bunch of wood working tools that I'm not really skilled enough to use.

As a side note, there's a guy near me on Craigslist selling an entire professional wood working shop's worth of tools for $20k. I should really just buy that, but my garage isn't big enough. I suppose I could use the tools to build a bigger garage...

[Norseman]

+n for track saw. bitchin tool

[Jason4]

I really should have known this is how this thread was going to go. Tech talk is like 30% useful technical advice, and 70% emotional support group for middle aged men buying excessive amounts of tools and gear.

So I appreciate the emotional support in my inevitable decision to buy a bunch of wood working tools that I'm not really skilled enough to use.

As a side note, there's a guy near me on Craigslist selling an entire professional wood working shop's worth of tools for $20k. I should really just buy that, but my garage isn't big enough. I suppose I could use the tools to build a bigger garage...

This is the way.

As the son of a 9.5 fingered father who worked in a cabinet shop as his post retirement job I went for a Sawstop jobsite saw when I realized I'm going to have a lot of finish work to do on my remodel gone wild. My wife works in the ER and has seen the result of a lot of saw injuries and knows what the billing for her work is like.

I'll be buying a track saw soon too, waiting for black Friday sales at Home Depot.

[Bunion 2020]

I may get some shit for this but. What type of joinery do you plan on using? If these are not high end custom kitchen cabinets a Kreg pockethole jig is an easy way to go instead of Dados. They also make a decent saw track.

[adrenalated]

Track saw of some sort is totally the way to go for working with sheet goods. I have that Kreg saw track mentioned above and it totally works fine. I'll probably upgrade to an actual track saw eventually but for now I'd rather spend the money on materials to actually make shit out of.

If you want to go the joinery route, and your current saw can accept a dado stack - I bet you can do it just by building yourself a decent surround/cart for the saw and making some jigs. While smaller than a normal base cabinet, I did all the joinery for the 24" x 30" medicine cabinet I posted in the Shit You Built thread on a $250 10" Ridgid jobsite saw.

But for gear room cabinets I agree pocket holes would be super easy and work just fine. I'll probably do that or maybe dowels when I get around to building cabinets for my shop.

[Stuntmonkey]

I may get some shit for this but. What type of joinery do you plan on using? If these are not high end custom kitchen cabinets a Kreg pockethole jig is an easy way to go instead of Dados. They also make a decent saw track.

Before I got my makita I just used the kreg tracksaw attachment. Works with any circular saw and is very good.

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

I need some cabinets, and after getting some quotes, it seems like I can buy a nice table saw and a bunch of nice wood and still save at least $10k on the project. So I need a table saw that can process full size sheets of plywood with reasonable accuracy, and probably run some dado cuts. And, of course, I'd use the saw for assorted other non-specific projects in the future.

I currently have a dewalt job site saw that works fine, but isn't going to cut it (pun intended) for accurately cutting big pieces of wood.

Am I better off getting an old, heavy cabinet saw off of Craigslist? Newer, smaller, contractor type saw? Worth it to throw down the money for a sawstop? Any noteworthy considerations in this whole process? Is the whole idea dumb and I should just pay out the ass for cabinets?

I'll need to put the saw on a mobile base due to space constraints. I can run either 120 or 240v power, although 120 would be easier.

Whatcha building? I've done quite a few projects by buying the bare boxes from local shops, and then ordering the drawer boxes and fronts. Filler strips, toe kicks, light fronts can all be made with a contractors saw.

[skivan]

I really like my CL found festool track saw and dust extractor. Also check out festoolrecon. I can’t attach a pic (?) but there’s a HK55 on there right now for 399…

I have a few recon bought tools and nothings wrong with them at all…

https://www.festoolrecon.com/

I also kind of want a good ts but mainly for dadoes and i can get away w a router for that i guess.

Edit to add… going down the festool route is very much along the lines of the wagon thread - no opinions there at all haha. But oh the German build quality…

[AlpiNord]

Dude, real men of genius use portable table saws upside down to cut plywood. What could possibly go wrong? (There's a viral video showing this.)

After eons of ripping plywood with my worm drive Skilsaw, I got a 4" saw with track which works great, plus the 4" saw is now my go to saw for all kinds of uses. The table saw for ripping face frames & chop saw for cross cuts......then you'll need to get a CNC to round out your shop....just because they're awesome.

Roller stands are handy for supporting long material on table saws & chop saws, etc. Rigid Flip Top stands are even more handy and can replace saw horses. They are lightweight and useful for countless tasks.



For cutting plywood, it's handy to lay (and screw in) 2xs over saw horses to support the sheets on either side of the cuts to support the fall off.

[toast2266]

Whatcha building? I've done quite a few projects by buying the bare boxes from local shops, and then ordering the drawer boxes and fronts. Filler strips, toe kicks, light fronts can all be made with a contractors saw.

The main thing I'm hoping to build is 3 floor to ceiling cabinets (roughly 2' x 2' x 8' each), the centerpiece of which will be 4 large cubbies for ski gear, ideally with garage door style cabinets that can be opened and retracted into the cabinet so the doors are out of the way (those cubbies will get left open for most of the winter so gear dries out, but then closed all summer). Then an assortment of drawers and regular shelves / cabinets surrounding the ski gear cubbies.

There'll also be 1 or 2 other "normal" cabinets in the vicinity where I could probably buy some sort of pre-built box. The issue would just be getting something those matched with the floor to ceiling boxes.

[toast2266]

Dude, real men of genius use portable table saws upside down to cut plywood. What could possibly go wrong? (There's a viral video showing this.)

Lol! I remember that.

I wonder if I can attach my little table saw to one of those kreg universal tracks.

[SeatownSlackey]

Not sure where you’re located but we have a place called Sawbox here in the puget sound that will let you use their software to spec and design whatever cabinet you want to build then you pick whatever type of sheet goods to build it out of. They’ll then cut all your pieces with a cnc machine. You then get to assemble yourself. Basically a way to get custom cabinets at a fraction of the cost for the diy inclined without the hassle and hardship of handling and breaking down unwieldily sheets of ply. Maybe look locally for a similar shop that can do something similar?


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[mcski]

That sounds amazing^

[MyNameIsAugustWest]

I once built a 10 foot wall of built ins including raised panel doors out of MDF entirely using a POS Rigid table saw and an aluminum track for a circular saw. I still have 10 fingers. It was for a basement finish job that my kids were inevitably going to trash. I thought it came out fine. I wouldn't do that again.

Have you looked at online cabinets? We re-did a kitchen recently (4 years ago) and bought the cabinets from Cabinets USA. Great customer service, tons of options on sizes, and cheaper than the crap that HD or Lowe's sells. If it's for a gear room, they should be fine.

Downside is, you don't get to buy new tools....