Guerilla Gravity going out of business?

[geomorph]

This is a bummer as a trail pistol owner that plans to hold onto my bike for a while and would like to have access to spare parts. I mostly picked up the bike because of good things read on here and it was one of the few bikes available in 2021 when I was looking. Never was a huge fan of their brand image (I was always more of a Phish guy than a heavy metal guy) but I think they were making some unique, sensible products. I've thought that the (claimed) higher impact resistance of the Revved Carbon (at a slight weight penalty) always made sense for mountain bike applications. Would have been interesting to see where they could have gone with it. New, less beefy front triangle for the shorter travel variants? Seems like with geometry changes slowing down, they would have been set for a while with all the infrastructure they already had in place.

[toast2266]

That's a pretty good summary. I would bet that in some regions there are brands that are prevalent (Kona maybe in western Canada?).

I think pretty much every brand except for Giant, Trek, Specialized, and maybe Santa Cruz are at least somewhat regional in their popularity.

There's always been lots of Yetis in Colorado, lots of Transitions in the Northwest, lots of Intenses in California, etc. There was a while where you barely ever saw a Norco outside of Canada (although that's changed a lot in the last ~5 years). And then Europe's a whole different thing - tons of brands over there that have zero presence in the US. And tons of US brands that have zero presence in Europe. And I don't have the slightest idea what's popular in Asia and Oceania. Polygons and Zerodes, maybe?

[El Chupacabra]

I have a Kona Explosif hardtail and a Sutra touring bike. I'm not that interested in their f/s designs though.

Also have a Salsa Blackthorn, which is fantastic. And on sale at REI now for a damn good deal.

Intense seems like it could end any day - nothing new in many years, and the Costco offerings don't seem like a hallmark of a brand on the upswing.

[toast2266]

The thing with a lot of those brands on that list is that they don't make their bikes themselves, like GG did. So presumably they bought at least their normal amount of frames & components from their Asian manufacturers during 2020/21/22 (if not more like everyone else), and now the market is totally flooded. Best case scenario, they ordered normal quantity so their oversupply and consequent loss isn't as big, but it's still a loss. I mean, I guess some of the loss will be passed on to whichever retail vendors they have, but they've still got to be sitting on a lot of inventory they haven't yet sold to vendors that they already paid the Asian manufacturers for.

I think a lot of the smaller companies couldn't over-order in that time period even if they wanted to. Wait times for components were long. Wait times at the frame manufacturing factories were also long. If you had loads of cash or lots of leverage (i.e. Specialized), you could potentially shortcut that line, but most smaller manufacturers had neither the cash nor the leverage to get their frames manufactured / shipped across the pacific / built with components. So I think most of the smaller players weren't actually spending gobs of money, but they weren't really making any money either (since they didn't have much of anything to sell).

Like you said, GG was in a somewhat unique position because they built their frames themselves. So they were more able to throw a bunch of money at upscaling manufacturing, which it seems was actually a poor choice in hindsight.

[XXX-er]

> 20 yrs ago I met the Banshee guy when they were a new brand so I asked where he made them ?

He said Taiwan was the best place to make bikes cuz he could get on a bike, ride up the road, source all the parts , all the tubing, all the expertise, all the best welders also rent a factory

and the beach was at the other end of the road

[joetron]

There is a desire (not sure it’s actually “demand”) within US bike companies to onshore frame manufacturing. There’s probably less desire/demand for this now than there was 2 years ago when Revved Industries ramped up capacity to fulfill some of those desires/demands.
I heard some pretty crazy numbers regarding minimum order quantities to get into their frame manufacturing queue.
I dont know if they scaled their production capacity based on those numbers, but it would make sense.
So now they are left holding the bag. Competitively priced contract domestic carbon frame manufacturing isn’t a terrible idea, and is probably more profitable and has vastly higher revenue than running a niche marketed mountain bike brand, so it makes sense that their new leadership and investors would push to close up the dead weight of GG and focus on the vastly larger MOQ contracts.

Anyhow,I’m fucking stuck with 2 size 3 Pedalheads and a Size 2 and Size 4 Smash at the shop now and I want to make them go away. I think I’m gonna part out the Smash bikes, but I’m not too worried about moving the Pedalheads.
If anyone wants a brand new Smash V2 frame/shock/hs I will sell to a Mag for $1200 with a SuperDeluxe Ult, or $1000 with a Deluxe Select(no piggyback). Friends of mags qualify too, haha, so tell your friends.
All sales final, I have no idea what warranty looks like because these titans of CO Bro manufacturing won’t answer my email. I like most of the GG crew, and the bikes are fine…but I have to say I’m a little chapped about this whole situation and they way it’s been handled, given that I was pursued and signed up as a dealer late last fall. They shipped me bikes this spring without checking in first - which is a bit dodgy in my experience.


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[stuckathuntermtn]

Brand popularity is hard to judge since it may just have to do with whatever shops are in your town, and how good they are.

Pistola Frame Bearings:
Main pivot: 6903 Max
Rocker pivot: 6901 Max
Seatstay to rocker: 6900
Seatstay to chainstay: 6901 SM Max

Oh thanks. With my riding and where I live, the bearings will probably last forever. But just in case! Figured it was standardized parts.

[smmokan]

All sales final, I have no idea what warranty looks like because these titans of CO Bro manufacturing won’t answer my email. I like most of the GG crew, and the bikes are fine…but I have to say I’m a little chapped about this whole situation and they way it’s been handled, given that I was pursued and signed up as a dealer late last fall.

I don't claim to know anything about what's happening behind the scenes, but the way this has been handled is less than professional. No public announcement, no support for dealers/partners/etc, and everyone is left wondering WTF is going on. It's not that hard to send out some communication so folks know what the hell is happening. Poor form for sure.

Oh, and that's a ridiculous deal on the Smash frame... I'll poke around and see if I can't help you sell that thing.

[snowaddict91]

I agree, pretty lame the way this is going down. I just bought my Smash in May during the sale, my buddy runs a small shop and he had just become a dealer. Like Joe, he couldn't get a response as to WTF was going on when he tried to order me a bearing kit and extra headset cups.

Oh well, such is life I guess. Pretty shitty though, this is my first carbon bike and now poof, no warranty.

How much for one of those pedalheads? I really shouldn't be asking, but...

[Tailwind]

It’s sad but this makes me immediately start speculating about other bike companies that might not make it.

I’m worried about Spot (my wife loves hers) but they seem like a company that might be vulnerable. Same goes for newer small brands like Esker and Allied.

[smmokan]

Allied has Walmart money behind it, no way they're going anywhere.

[muted reborn]

TW - I've never heard of two of those brands, so I'm shooting from the hip - they may be very small boutique brands that appeal to very wealthy millionaires and are going to be fine. The Rich feel special owning something unique and think they are helping 'art-teastss' make a living with their considerate purchase. Also, they appeal to regular dudes who are finally 'simple' rich and can spoil themselves with a very high end bike. And a few outdoorsy boomers are a sucker to plunk play-investment money into brands like these.

GG is for a different market of bros.

[Eluder]

I think a lot of the smaller companies couldn't over-order in that time period even if they wanted to. Wait times for components were long. Wait times at the frame manufacturing factories were also long. If you had loads of cash or lots of leverage (i.e. Specialized), you could potentially shortcut that line, but most smaller manufacturers had neither the cash nor the leverage to get their frames manufactured / shipped across the pacific / built with components. So I think most of the smaller players weren't actually spending gobs of money, but they weren't really making any money either (since they didn't have much of anything to sell).

Like you said, GG was in a somewhat unique position because they built their frames themselves. So they were more able to throw a bunch of money at upscaling manufacturing, which it seems was actually a poor choice in hindsight.

This is true. What money you had, you threw at frames and parts, but they all required 50% down with a lead time of 9-12 months. Then, it took 3-5 months to get your shipment. That ocean shipment cost more than it would to air freight them today. Shit was fucked up. There was no recourse for things taking longer than you were told, and money was out of your hands for a year before you had a chance to sell the bike. This assumes all the parts lined up and were available when the frame came through the door. The big guys, QBP included, bought up so much factory time you had to beg to get anything made at times. The factory that made our frames also made Salsas carbon FS bikes; at one point, they said they had over a year of production on the books that we had to wait for, but that backtracked after six months, thankfully. Despite what some think, Salsa does care about their mountain bikes, its just maybe we don't.

We ran into the same thing at the tire factory; before we could get the cash together for a deposit, orders were out for ten months.

One takeaway I have is that I9 and MRP deserve your money. Stand-up companies, with good people working for them.

[Meconium]

Orbea kind of has a strange business model. Build mold in house, export mold, Import raw fram, paint and assemble in house. (I think)
Mid/ smaller Canadian companies should survive, gut feeling. Doesn't seam like they try to be what they are not.

[smmokan]

Too funny, MTBR closed the GG thread because it’s all just speculation at this point… Well duh, because GG hasn’t said anything despite already giving up on their customers and retailers.

[Andeh]

Too funny, MTBR closed the GG thread because it’s all just speculation at this point… Well duh, because GG hasn’t said anything despite already giving up on their customers and retailers.

Yeah, I was pretty WTF at that. GG could end speculation pretty easily by saying ANYTHING.

Eluder, who do/did you work for? Just curious.

[joetron]

Haha. Wow. I would imagine that was at the request of what’s left of GG…so Will?
Matt’s LinkedIn post made it pretty darn clear what was happening.


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[fastfred]

Most people have no clue about running a business. The cliche comment is always, "it must be great being your own boss."

As if you just sit around, phone in a few decisions, goof off the rest of the time, and make gobs of cash.

Very few businesses succeed. A ten year run is pretty good. Getting a name and a fan base is exceptional.

Running a business will drag you down hard, reading profit and loss statements, while truly being able to interpret them is impossible for most.

I understand their position and it sucks, they saw the writing on the wall last fall. Probably looked for a buyer, lines of credit, or a way to work themselves out of a hole. But throwing your hands up, giving up, and just walking away is sometimes the easiest. Hand it over to lawyers and accountants to clean up the mess and absolve you of any liability. It's not hard.

Reading the guys post, sure that cliché dad shit is cute, but underneath the statement is a guy who has struggled for months, who has been a miserable sob, and today he's happy and content.

Having run my own business for almost twenty years now is brutal and I can easily be one of the biggest pieces of shit.

[One (+) Sentence]

Haha. Wow. I would imagine that was at the request of what’s left of GG…so Will?
Matt’s LinkedIn post made it pretty darn clear what was happening.


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This sucks, dude...

[The Reverend Floater]

This isn't unique to MTB, unfortunately. We'll see a good little chunk of smallish outdoor brands fold in the next several months.

Yeah, a lot of folks misread COVID demand but if you're a smallish brand dependent on retailers like REI and if THEY misread it and tell you to build a ton of widgets, you do it. Then they cancel orders when they realize it was an anomaly (because they can) and you eat shit, sitting on a pile of inventory with slowing demand. Add the cost of money and labor right now and it's a tough environment for a smaller outdoor brand.

This has happened all over the landscape.

The good news is that historically, lots of brands are born in environments like this.



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[joetron]

This sucks, dude...

Yeah man, I’m staring at $15k in bikes from an apparent zombie company and haven’t heard shit from them. Not a lot of dough for a big swinging dick shop, but I sure have a lot better things to do with that $$.
Gonna blow em out and take a loss because I have no idea what kind of warranty or tech support there will be in the future. Likely zero.
For a company that built their brand on community/culture and close relationships with their customers, this has been a really weird turn of events - I think that’s what most of the reactions are about.


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[singlesline]

I'm gonna laugh when shops get an email that's like

"sorry bros, we just got back from a super epic company riding vacation in BC and haven't been able to respond to emails. Matt has moved on to other things, but I'll be handling your account going forward. Lets talk about 2024 bikes!"

...


Ok, probably not. This doesn't look good for them, but similar things have happened with small companies that recover (but even if they did, shops and consumers can be rightfully pissed about them going dark on parts/warranty).

[Meconium]

Ibis Bicycles was founded by Scot Nicol, one of the earliest mountain bikers in northern California. It began in Nicol's garage in 1981, when a friend asked him to build a frame.[2] Nicol sold the company to an investment group in 2000 and it went bankrupt within 20 months.[2] Ibis returned to the industry at the 2005 Interbike tradeshow.[3] Hans Heim, a former co-owner of Bontrager Cycles and Santa Cruz Bicycles, partnered with Scot Nicol, Tom Morgan, and Roxy Lo to relaunch the brand. Colin Hughes, the Head of Engineering, would join later as a partner.[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibis_(bicycle_company)

[LeeLau]

There is a desire (not sure it’s actually “demand”) within US bike companies to onshore frame manufacturing.

Anyhow,I’m fucking stuck with 2 size 3 Pedalheads and a Size 2 and Size 4 Smash at the shop now and I want to make them go away. I think I’m gonna part out the Smash bikes, but I’m not too worried about moving the Pedalheads.
If anyone wants a brand new Smash V2 frame/shock/hs I will sell to a Mag for $1200 with a SuperDeluxe Ult, or $1000 with a Deluxe Select(no piggyback). Friends of mags qualify too, haha, so tell your friends.

Sorry to hear Joe - I'm a size 3 unfortunately otherwise it would have been a screaming deal.

[Danno]

For a company that built their brand on community/culture and close relationships with their customers, this has been a really weird turn of events - I think that’s what most of the reactions are about.

yeah, I pay very little attention to bikes and even I know how GG has marketed itself.