Tree well rescue at Mt Baker

[Core Shot]

Sidecountry is lift accessed backcountry.
That’s the definition.

You don’t have to earn every turn.
But they are both the same in terms of snow stability and required skills.

In fact it wouldn’t surprise me to find some google something that sidecountry as a term was created for the express purpose of making people think more about the consequences.

So I would argue sidecountry as a term was created to tie it into backcountry as backcountry started getting more popular. To get people to think more about terrain and consequences

Decades ago it was just called ducking the rope.

[Ørion]

Maybe I've been living under a rock but the primary people I've ever seen claim that sidecountry is a term designed to indicate some sort of risk are the people decrying that its designed to downplay said risk.

The almost universal use is to describe ease of access (aka: lift-accessed backcountry) and whenever an accident or death happens in these zones the online discourse seems to eventually devolve into these two viewpoints arguing past each other.

[Wapow]

It's funny how tree wells are now considered so dangerous. I grew up skiing Alpy and we chased the deepest pow we could find, always, and never any tree well issues. I only ski backcountry now and for the past 18 years exclusively via sled access in the Cascades (the supposed heartland of this type of danger) and still never any issues with tree wells, for me or any of my partners. Tree wells are actually a useful terrain feature for mountain sledding, because you can use them to reset when you lose your line climbing in steep trees. Based on the hysterics, you'd think taking a step off the sled in these situations would be deadly. But it's not even an issue. It makes me wonder how often the people who wind up dead in tree wells hit their head on the tree on the way in. I also wonder if the guy in the video was doing something else (looking for a place to smoke weed or take a dump) when he fell in there. How else would you end up head first in a hole on the downhill side of a patch of relatively small, but seemingly impenetrable trees?

[AK47bp]

It's funny how tree wells are now considered so dangerous. I grew up skiing Alpy and we chased the deepest pow we could find, always, and never any tree well issues. I only ski backcountry now and for the past 18 years exclusively via sled access in the Cascades (the supposed heartland of this type of danger) and still never any issues with tree wells, for me or any of my partners. Tree wells are actually a useful terrain feature for mountain sledding, because you can use them to reset when you lose your line climbing in steep trees. Based on the hysterics, you'd think taking a step off the sled in these situations would be deadly. But it's not even an issue. It makes me wonder how often the people who wind up dead in tree wells hit their head on the tree on the way in. I also wonder if the guy in the video was doing something else (looking for a place to smoke weed or take a dump) when he fell in there. How else would you end up head first in a hole on the downhill side of a patch of relatively small, but seemingly impenetrable trees?

Cool story bro.


Next tell us how funny it is you think drunk driving is considered dangerous because you’ve driven drunk plenty of times and never killed anyone.

Dumb ass

[summit]

Sidecountry is extra dangerous backcountry because people run it lax and you get exposed to hazard created by crowds

[altasnob]

I only ski backcountry now and for the past 18 years exclusively via sled access in the Cascades (the supposed heartland of this type of danger) and still never any issues with tree wells, for me or any of my partners.

My guess is you've never fallen head first into a tree. If that happens on a deep day in the Cascades, you're probably fucked.

Also, there is a major difference in tree well danger at Baker than, say, the Teanaway. Baker has huge trees and huge snowfall. Alpental is similar but Baker definitely takes the treewell danger cake.

Crystal trims the bottoms of a lot of their trees that are in highly skied areas. Not only makes more space for skiing but eliminates the tree well danger. The tree is still there to hit your head on but you don't have the deep unconsolidated snow around the base.

[Ted Striker]

True. Especially for snowboarders. Toe side fall upslope from a tree, go head first down under the canopy, snow filling in from above, and the bottom branches can hide whatever is still above the surface.

[Wapow]

Cool story bro.


Next tell us how funny it is you think drunk driving is considered dangerous because you’ve driven drunk plenty of times and never killed anyone.

Dumb ass

LOL. You're fucking soft.

[AK47bp]

LOL. You're fucking soft.

Ouch.

[Lvovsky]

Cool story bro.


Next tell us how funny it is you think drunk driving is considered dangerous because you’ve driven drunk plenty of times and never killed anyone.

Dumb ass

“Take a lap, jong” has been under utilized lately. Would have been a fitting response.

[MakersTeleMark]

Sidecountry is extra dangerous backcountry because people run it lax and you get exposed to hazard created by crowds

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CqnZs..._web_copy_link

[powdork]

I treat tree skiing, and particularly tree snowboarding, in deep snow in the Cascades as fall you die terrain. Skiing with partners and skiing with gear isn't going to save you. Just don't fall. And if you are not confident that you won't fall, then ski somewhere more wide open. It will take a miracle, like in this video, to save someone fully submerged in a tree well. Most of the time, you can't even see the person from the surface and by the time you get to them with avy gear, they are dead. If are on a snowboard, you can't ski slow through the trees with a partner. You have to charge it or you are getting stuck on the flats in a wallow fest.

I've been with some very good snowboarders in the BC who have no problems at all, but also some not so good ones. They have a really hard time not falling backwards when they stop in deep pow. And if they don't know any tricks for getting up it just gets worse (although those tricks usually involve you having some gear).

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Good to hear, although since you exclusively ski East of the crest you wouldn't understand as you only have spindly little lodge poles, an occasional needle-less larch, and a general lack of snow.

You forgot the white bark and pondos, but you’re right there’s no snow. I’ve been skiing on dirt and basalt for 75 days

[wolfelot]

Yikes. That is freaky. I love the trees and have barely even thought of tree wells here in the Colorado front range. Good reminder.

[Yonder_River]

Having lived in Colorado and Montana prior to the northwest, I didn't think much about them either. They are on a whole other level up here.

[Lvovsky]

Patrol practice tree well rescue. Volunteer dives head first into a well:

https://unofficialnetworks.com/2022/...-well-ski/amp/

[AK47bp]

This one was posted at the bottom of the above article.

Dad close call with his kid.

https://youtu.be/84lt-3uc_Gc

[muted reborn]

How to rescue a moose from a treewell


i was expecting a much smaller moose to come out!

[Dromond]

It's funny how tree wells are now considered so dangerous. I grew up skiing Alpy and we chased the deepest pow we could find, always, and never any tree well issues. I only ski backcountry now and for the past 18 years exclusively via sled access in the Cascades (the supposed heartland of this type of danger) and still never any issues with tree wells, for me or any of my partners. Tree wells are actually a useful terrain feature for mountain sledding, because you can use them to reset when you lose your line climbing in steep trees. Based on the hysterics, you'd think taking a step off the sled in these situations would be deadly. But it's not even an issue. It makes me wonder how often the people who wind up dead in tree wells hit their head on the tree on the way in. I also wonder if the guy in the video was doing something else (looking for a place to smoke weed or take a dump) when he fell in there. How else would you end up head first in a hole on the downhill side of a patch of relatively small, but seemingly impenetrable trees?

What is your logic here? Just because something has never happened to you, that means it can't happen?

A skier died in a tree well at Alpental in 2016. I believe is was in the Felsen area:
https://livingsnoqualmie.com/skier-d...ing-tree-well/

One of my ski partners and long time Alpental skier recently relayed a tale from several years ago about how he had lost a ski in Felsen, was hiking up to get it, just happened to see a snowboarder who had slid to the bottom of a steep slope in a depression. Sluff had piled on top of him, and he was completely inverted and unable to move or breath. Not a tree well exactly, but a similar type of snow immersion. My friend dug him out quickly but said it was pure luck that he happened to be there and see him. If things played out differently it's almost certain this guy would have died.

[PNWbrit]

It's funny how tree wells are now considered so dangerous. I grew up skiing Alpy and we chased the deepest pow we could find, always, and never any tree well issues. I only ski backcountry now and for the past 18 years exclusively via sled access in the Cascades (the supposed heartland of this type of danger) and still never any issues with tree wells, for me or any of my partners. Tree wells are actually a useful terrain feature for mountain sledding, because you can use them to reset when you lose your line climbing in steep trees. Based on the hysterics, you'd think taking a step off the sled in these situations would be deadly. But it's not even an issue. It makes me wonder how often the people who wind up dead in tree wells hit their head on the tree on the way in. I also wonder if the guy in the video was doing something else (looking for a place to smoke weed or take a dump) when he fell in there. How else would you end up head first in a hole on the downhill side of a patch of relatively small, but seemingly impenetrable trees?

https://www.deepsnowsafety.org/index.php/sis-numbers

[sweatypowderpig]

deep snow generally can be sketch even inbounds. I once worked a NARSID where an elderly gentleman came over a roller, skied into the extra deep snow on the leeward side, punch front to vertical lawn dart. partner and others got to his airway in 7 minutes (took over 3 minutes just to hike up 50 feet), but still not fast enough.

lots of people underestimate how much strength it takes to get yourself out of that kind of situation. it's often just plain impossible solo. it happens very fast and unexpectedly and every second counts.

as said, just cuz it hasn't happened to you or your friends, doesn't mean it can't happen. kids are especially vulnerable

[Core Shot]

How to rescue a moose from a treewell


i was expecting a much smaller moose to come out!

Holy fuck.
Yeah. Full size moose in a tree well.

Great rescue effort.

[Core Shot]

Patrol practice tree well rescue. Volunteer dives head first into a well:

https://unofficialnetworks.com/2022/...-well-ski/amp/

That was so fucked up. Patroller should have had an avalung or a scuba tank. As soon as they clipped his skis he went deep. If they didn’t have shovels he’d be fucked.

And yet they said
======
Here’s a list of tips from Whitewater if you ever find yourself in a similar situation:

If your partner gets stuck in a tree well, here are some tips to help get them out:

Don’t leave to get help – stay with your partner.

-Keep ski or board attached; this will stop them from going in deeper.

[MarsB]

That was so fucked up. Patroller should have had an avalung or a scuba tank. As soon as they clipped his skis he went deep. If they didn’t have shovels he’d be fucked.

Obviously they did this as a demo with multiple people on the ready. It's not that hard to create an air pocket when you know you are going in, and they established his airway first thing. I've held my breath longer getting thrashed in a hole while kayaking.

[Core Shot]

Obviously they did this as a demo with multiple people on the ready. It's not that hard to create an air pocket when you know you are going in, and they established his airway first thing. I've held my breath longer getting thrashed in a hole while kayaking.

Yes.
Demo example.
Established airway? Check.
Unclip skis? Check. Demonstrate that’s a bad idea. Check.
Go so fucking deep they couldn’t pull him out, with a strap wrapped around his boots, with two people yanking? Check.
Then dig dig dig. And dig. Check.
Even after the dig, still took two people on a bootstrap.

His reaction and words when finally extracted say a lot.
I wonder if he wants to do it again.

Yes, he had airway the whole time. But what if he didn’t after the ski release?

OSHA would have something to say if that demo didn’t work.

PS. I get that they intentionally unclipped his skis to show its a bad idea sometimes. But fuck. That dude disappeared like a full grown moose.