Let's Talk About The Opioid Problem

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Thanks. I actually meant to tag you with that post I was including hospice type situations (in my head) as "hospitalized". If you have someone checking in on you daily rather than sending you home with a two week supply that makes a huge difference but is alsy WAY more expensive..

Point is these should only be used under close supervision, COST BE DAMNED.

There are likely millions of people using opioids at home and following dosage directions that never develop dependency. Far more than those that develop dependency. It’s ignorance about the root cause that forms opinions like you express. It’s not an opioid problem, that’s a symptom


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[SumJongGuy]

There are likely millions of people using opioids at home and following dosage directions that never develop dependency. Far more than those that develop dependency. It’s ignorance about the root cause that’s forms opinions like you express. It’s not an opioid problem, that’s a symptom


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This sounds like an argument against more gun control regulation. Ya, it's not the guns/pills themselves and there are more situations where they are used properly than improperly.

But, the only effective way to slow down the bleeding is to more highly regulate them for everyone no?

[nickwm21]

Some of the earliest texts, Sumerian clay tablets, describe opiate abuse. It’s not a “fixable” issue. As long as there are humans, there will be addicts.

The issue has been “supercharged” in the modern era due to everything posters above have said…

It seems like it’s time for extreme management.

Do you give addicts safe drugs, safe needles, and safe spaces? That’s a hard hill to climb.

Do you lock up addicts and force recovery on those who’s addiction has turned them to a life of crime? Another hard hill to climb.

Can those two policies co-exist?


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[MagnificentUnicorn]

Decriminalize drugs, provide access and lose the stigma. There are so many things we’re addicted to. Everyone has their vice. Even religion is a vice.


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[skaredshtles]

<snip>
Do you give addicts safe drugs, safe needles, and safe spaces? That’s a hard hill to climb.

Do you lock up addicts and force recovery on those who’s addiction has turned them to a life of crime? Another hard hill to climb.

Can those two policies co-exist?

I think they can. But what do I know?

I would really like to see us face the fact that the "War on Drugs" is lost and that we really need to throw all those billions at something that *might* actually work.

[nickwm21]

Decriminalize drugs, provide access and lose the stigma. There are so many things we’re addicted to. Everyone has their vice. Even religion is a vice.


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But these drug addictions cause people to shit on the sidewalk, break into homes and steal TVs, drive impaired and put lives at risk, etc…


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[XXX-er]

ask yerself if any time " the war on anything " has ever been won ?

[baron]

It wasn't JUST a BigPharm and their lobby money grab. This was just as much driven by the healthcare insurance companies like Cigna and Blue Cross as an effort to lower their costs and increase profits. Before this the established practice in high level pain management was to keep people hospitalized under supervision when administering opioids. It's way cheaper for them to send you home with a bottle of morphine pills.

This is the same philosophy as dismantling our system of public mental health hospitals and instead trying to manage the mentally ill at home (parent's basement) with pills instead of full time professional care. Similar tragic results..

The Recovery costs are a big player in this too...the busiest department in the hospital I work in is the Behavioral Health Unit. And, the cost astronomical. +the drugs big pharma sells to curb addiction.

[Cono Este]

Like I mentioned in the other thread, the fentanyl is showing up laced on everything. Kids are not even asking for it, then they’re flat lining.

It’s one thing to take oxy etc (never done it) and another to find poison on everything that kills you so easily.

Having met a mother with a 17 yr old dealing with this, it sounds like a plague sweeping the country.

[baron]

I think they can. But what do I know?

I would really like to see us face the fact that the "War on Drugs" is lost and that we really need to throw all those billions at something that *might* actually work.

Exactly... should be way better education in schools.. trying random drugs is not like when we grew up; Better odds playing Russian Roulette with a 6 shooter.

We used to have McGruff; I think he died of an overdose?

The cartels were allowed to get freaking huge too- If we finally do go to war with them, it will be far bloodier than the war with prohibition. We used to be able to kick these scumbags out of our neiborhood's... I doubt that's possible any more without martial law.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

But these drug addictions cause people to shit on the sidewalk, break into homes and steal TVs, drive impaired and put lives at risk, etc…


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Again, those are symptoms of a broken society.

Take away the stigma and criminal penalties then provide help and those problems disappear.

Our problem in this country is our exceptionalism and it’s a problem for liberals and conservatives. We’re not special.
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[XXX-er]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...laim-1.6767257

along with the free contraceptives this surfaced ^^ last week

so of course the local ex cocaine dealer is all hot to get in the bidness claiming " I can do this you know I'm good cuz i'm still alive ! "

[fastfred]

oh where to start?

people are broken and have given up drugs are just a self medicating result of giving up
social media is destroying people rotting their brains
the amount of in person contact each of us has each day compared to someone ten twenty or thirty years ago is less and less

it's hard to realize here in our upwardly mobile athletic world of tgr
most people have given up on being healthy physically or emotionally cause there is a pill to fix everything and anything these days

[AK47bp]

Anyone holding?

[XXX-er]

No ! and so like i tell the possibly ex dealer, I don't wana know any of that shit

[highangle]

Again, those are symptoms of a broken society.

Take away the stigma and criminal penalties then provide help and those problems disappear.

Our problem in this country is our exceptionalism and it’s a problem for liberals and conservatives. We’re not special.
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You know blaming societal indifference makes you a functioning part of that indifference, right? Thoughts & prayers.

[old goat]

Thanks. I actually meant to tag you with that post I was including hospice type situations (in my head) as "hospitalized". If you have someone checking in on you daily rather than sending you home with a two week supply that makes a huge difference but is alsy WAY more UNNECESSARY..

Point is these should only be used under close supervision, COST BE DAMNED.

FIFY
What re you going to do--put people with chronic pain in the hospital for the rest of their lives? Keep surgery patients and ortho patients who are walking, eating, caring for themselves in the hospital for 2 more weeks. That's absurd. And those aren't the people who are ODing. What you do is educate people. For the acute situation it's easy--teach them to stay ahead of the pain at first, taper the dose, expect to get no refills and then stick to it unless there's a good reason not to. For chronic pain--teach them to use for situations that need extra pain control, not around the clock so that the blood level goes to zero between doses, clear expectation of how much they get and how often and stick to it. Once in a while a surprise drug test to make sure they are using and not diverting. Make sure they understand the extremely high risk of street drugs these days.

There are likely millions of people using opioids at home and following dosage directions that never develop dependency. Far more than those that develop dependency. It’s ignorance about the root cause that forms opinions like you express. It’s not an opioid problem, that’s a symptom


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The figure I've heard (and can't source so it may be bullshit) is 10% of people receiving opioids become addicted, which is the same as the prevalence of substance abuse in the population. I can't qualify that as applying to all people who get opioids, including peope who get a few pills for an injury or if it's people receiving them longer term.

ask yerself if any time " the war on anything " has ever been won ?

We won the war after the Nazis bombed Pearl Harbor. (That's the only example I can think of.)

oh where to start?

people are broken and have given up drugs are just a self medicating result of giving up
social media is destroying people rotting their brains
the amount of in person contact each of us has each day compared to someone ten twenty or thirty years ago is less and less

it's hard to realize here in our upwardly mobile athletic world of tgr
most people have given up on being healthy physically or emotionally cause there is a pill to fix everything and anything these days

well said

[Dantheman]

And BTW, re the Sacklers--without downplaying their role in the epidemic, any doctor who believed the marketing that oxycontin wasn't addictive was an idiot. The key to developing physical dependency on opioids is maintaining a constant blood level, which is what extended release opioids like oxycontin are designed to do.

Yep.

Honestly, here in my little bubble, I had thought the wave had crested, and that we were on the way down. Looking at the numbers through 2021 (the most recent I saw n a quick search) that is not the case at all.

Really? I feel like the fentanyl crisis has been in the news for years now. And unlike a lot of drug crises this one is actually real.

There are likely millions of people using opioids at home and following dosage directions that never develop dependency. Far more than those that develop dependency. It’s ignorance about the root cause that forms opinions like you express. It’s not an opioid problem, that’s a symptom

Why else would there be so many unused opioids in people's medicine cabinets for Matthew Perry to steal?

Legalize drugs drugs, provide access and lose the stigma. There are so many things we’re addicted to. Everyone has their vice. Even religion is a vice.

FIFY. Decriminalization is a step in the right direction but no solution. Without the black market, arbitrary criminality, and moralization involved opioid addiction is a completely treatable medical condition.

Fentanyl is not going away, the logistics and economics just work out so much better for black market distribution. The bodies will keep piling up until we accept the alternative.

If you want to address addiction you need to address poverty and untreated trauma. ACE score is the top predictor of addiction risk by far.

I have strong opinions about this subject but I've already written about them extensively in the heroin and drug legalization threads and don't really feel like rehashing it all.

But these drug addictions cause people to shit on the sidewalk, break into homes and steal TVs, drive impaired and put lives at risk, etc…

Alcoholics drive impaired, would steal shit if their drug cost black market prices, would shit on the street if they became unemployable due to some drug convictions and ended up homeless, and would die from tainted black market supply.

[baron]

FIFY
We won the war after the Nazis bombed Pearl Harbor. (That's the only example I can think of.)

oh yea, I remember those pictures of Stuka's bombing the USS Arizona/sarcastic smile

Did we really win the war? >we left the Russian Nazis( Stalin was responsible for more deaths than Hitler) to grow into a plague after the German Nazis woke up their war machine.. we are still fighting that war today in North Korea and Ukraine. Earth is a mess, just nuke it from orbit and fly away to another planet if we could. Those Japanese Nazis are one of our best allies now Guess the only way to make a true ally from an enemy is to kick their ass back to the stone age and help them rebuild after.

I hope those Cartel Nazis are next on our list...bomb them into the stone age..then help them rebuild.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

You know blaming societal indifference makes you a functioning part of that indifference, right? Thoughts & prayers.

Yes, we’re all part of the problem. Are you one of the “bootstraps” kinda people?


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[ötzi]

Really? I feel like the fentanyl crisis has been in the news for years now. And unlike a lot of drug crises this one is actually real.

I didn't think it had ended or gone away by any means but I did have a kind of a gut feeling that the wave had at least crested and that a better trend had started or was at least on the verge of developing. I think it's probably because of what MU says here:

It’s because it’s no longer a headline and people don’t care about the dirty junkies.

In part it's probably because here, at least, the OD death level has been basically flat for the last 5 years, which just goes back to what MU said. It's boring for the media now, for the media here in particular, so you just don't hear as much about it. It's also probably because I'm clueless.

MA stats:
https://www.mass.gov/doc/opioid-related-overdose-deaths-among-ma-residents-may-2021/download]

[SumJongGuy]

I'm 100% in on legalizing the more popular, less insane social drugs. Once we cart taxing things like alcohol and weed, the grey and black market sources get squashed ... and the quality of the goods goes way up..

When you have legal distributors narking on unlicensed dealers shit gets better, and safer.

[old goat]

For the record I have several bottles with a handful of opioids--vicodin and oxycodone- in each. And I have every intention of keeping them for a rainy day.
There is one problem that has an easy solution--shit and trash on the streets. Put out some dumpsters and porta-potties and stop pretending the homeless aren't there.

[SumJongGuy]

For the record I have several bottles with a handful of opioids--vicodin and oxycodone- in each. And I have every intention of keeping them for a rainy day.
There is one problem that has an easy solution--shit and trash on the streets. Put out some dumpsters and porta-potties and stop pretending the homeless aren't there.

I'm also big on keeping a stash of prescriptions we had leftover post treatment. Lots of people do. Pills were never much of an oppressions for me but I've but turned down Oridonin before. We do have a stash of Tylenol 3.. Both kids only took a few post wisdom teeth removal. I put the leftovers in the drawer for a future oh shit that hurts emergency..

Back around 1989 I was working with a crew doing kitchen remodels and we had this new guy, ex con on parole. 3rd day on the job we caught him going through a client's medicine cabinet.. had to fire him right there and reported him to the parole officer.

[Trackhead]

But these drug addictions cause people to shit on the sidewalk, break into homes and steal TVs, drive impaired and put lives at risk, etc…


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As long as it’s in your back yard and not the politicians, it’s ok.