Let's Talk About The Opioid Problem

[Meadow Skipper]

Agree. It’s complicated. I thought this article was a good summary of the various metrics and data: https://transformdrugs.org/blog/drug...ecord-straight

Good to see the EU metrics laid out.

Empathy and compassion are what work, if that means decriminalizing/legalizing that’s fine. Most of the criminal problems associated with drugs are because our drug are illegal. Fix that and then address the addiction problem. It’s a long row to hoe and we all stand to lose or gain a lot. What we’re doing now isn’t working.

It isn’t working.

One thing I didn’t notice discussed here is whether there’s a significant benefit to taking business away from illegal drug manufacturers, traffickers, and dealers by legalizing opioids. Just spitballing it seems like an awful lot of pain, chaos, and destruction could be mitigated by taking business away from illegal labs, cartels, and gangs.

There are some good discussion points here, but even though legalization might bring some people to try harder drugs (and suffer for it), the reduction of stigmatization and criminal punishment could lead to better understanding, recovery treatment, and rehab. The reduction in crime, both street and organized, could be really significant.

I understand the fear associated with the social costs of decriminalizing/legalizing harder drugs, but illegal drugs also have huge social costs. As noted above, what we’re doing now isn’t working. I’m leaning toward decriminalizing and possibly legalizing.

[baron]

Empathy and compassion are what work, if that means decriminalizing/legalizing that’s fine. Most of the criminal problems associated with drugs are because our drug are illegal. Fix that and then address the addiction problem. It’s a long row to hoe and we all stand to lose or gain a lot. What we’re doing now isn’t working.


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agreed >empathy and compassion work

But, every case is different and the amount of compassion for someone that is stealing from you gets pretty thin and that is the road many hardcore addicts end up on. Many of them will not 'want' to quit until they hit absolute rock bottom. Ask anyone who has dealt with a person like that... they wind up burning every relationship/bridge. They hit the point they really want to quit when their friends and family have had enough and already said goodbye.

This is why I think legalization is a horrific idea... we would enable millions of people that would end up as a burden to society. Then only paid professionals would want to deal with them in recovery.

I respond to security calls for these people and one thing in common with the caregivers is that they are mentally and physically taxed from the workload already. IT TAKES 5 PEOPLE TO HOLD DOWN SOMEONE TO FORCEFULLY MEDIACTE a person, and then we have to strap them down sometimes. You can't imagine the stuff they yell when they are freaking out>it would even make people on this forum cringe. The whole ''legalize opioids" feels like a narrative from an industry that wants to profit off addiction but is not in direct contact with these people.

I loved experimenting with drugs as a young adult, and am not against it.

Still >people are stupid and weak minded, we say it all the time here on TGR... and creating a generation of addicts is a bad idea. We wont have the resources to deal with it.

Other have different opinions, and maybe they are right? Nothing is etched in stone

[Trackhead]

Maybe we should elect our own Rodrigo Duterte ….

“If I make it to the presidential palace I will do just what I did as mayor. You drug pushers, holdup men, and do-nothings, you better get out because I'll kill you.”

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Maybe we should elect our own Rodrigo Duterte ….

“If I make it to the presidential palace I will do just what I did as mayor. You drug pushers, holdup men, and do-nothings, you better get out because I'll kill you.”

How’d that work out for Duterte? You forgot that he also advocated for the extra judicial killing of users too


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[Trackhead]

I wasn’t at all serious.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

I wasn’t at all serious.

I didn’t think so.




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[SumJongGuy]

This is why I think legalization is a horrific idea... we would enable millions of people that would end up as a burden to society. Then only paid professionals would want to deal with them in recovery.

Not sure what country you live in.. but we're already well past this point where I live. I can count on one hand the number of people I know who didn't smoke weed until it became legal.

And again, youths can get the illegal stuff easier than they can get the legal stuff.. At least in my experience and that of my 19 and 20 year old kids.

[BCMtnHound]

Not sure what country you live in.. but we're already well past this point where I live. I can count on one hand the number of people I know who didn't smoke weed until it became legal.

And again, youths can get the illegal stuff easier than they can get the legal stuff.. At least in my experience and that of my 19 and 20 year old kids.

The minor as a user thing is a whole different conversation. Hearing of deaths of youth because of fentanyl spiked recreational drugs, let alone teenaged addiction is a whole other level of rage. Makes me want to go to medieval on the purveyor of cheap street drugs. Too emotional on that front to have a rational opinion. And that carrys over to alcohol and legal weed too. Even more pressure to clean up the supply, but no way should these harmful substances be easy to get as a minor.

[dunfree]

The minor as a user thing is a whole different conversation. Hearing of deaths of youth because of fentanyl spiked recreational drugs, let alone teenaged addiction is a whole other level of rage. Makes me want to go to medieval on the purveyor of cheap street drugs. Too emotional on that front to have a rational opinion. And that carrys over to alcohol and legal weed too. Even more pressure to clean up the supply, but no way should these harmful substances be easy to get as a minor.

Some jurisdictions they charge the dealer with murder, in the case of overdoses. It doesn’t seem to have reduced the supply of dealers if the number of cases are an indication.

[mcski]

That’s pretty draconian and fucked up but I guess we gotta feed the prison industrial complex

[SumJongGuy]

Just like post prohibition and the current weed trade where legal, licensed dealers have the incentive to help shut down/snitch on the criminal dealers, and the IRS takes care of the rest..

[BCMtnHound]

Some jurisdictions they charge the dealer with murder, in the case of overdoses. It doesn’t seem to have reduced the supply of dealers if the number of cases are an indication.

Oh I get it. But in the case of minors, I have no tears for the dealer, even less for the pusher. Like I said, I recognize in this aspect I can not offer a rational perspective. The conversation here begins and ends at the age of legal adulthood. That goes for any of the social exploitations - be it religion, addiction, or consumption. Youth ain’t necessarily innocent, but fuck those predators that would feed off it for personal gain.

[Core Shot]

JFC

TH is on the front lines. It’s not all sunshine and rainbows. The warm farina we’ve been fed doesn’t really work irl. The myth of healthy junkies doesn’t really equal reality.

[dunfree]

Oh I get it. But in the case of minors, I have no tears for the dealer, even less for the pusher. Like I said, I recognize in this aspect I can not offer a rational perspective. The conversation here begins and ends at the age of legal adulthood. That goes for any of the social exploitations - be it religion, addiction, or consumption. Youth ain’t necessarily innocent, but fuck those predators that would feed off it for personal gain.

the high school senior/juco Stoner dealing drugs to high schoolers is replaceable and there’ll be another one next year. The family of the dead might get some sense of Justice from the dealers incarceration but it isn’t changing the nature of the unreliable commodity illegal drugs are, or the market for them very much.

[BCMtnHound]

the high school senior/juco Stoner dealing drugs to high schoolers is replaceable and there’ll be another one next year. The family of the dead might get some sense of Justice from the dealers incarceration but it isn’t changing the nature of the commodity, or the market for it.

The minor that is also a dealer. Full stop. They remain a victim in my worldview. Not innocent, but not subject to the crime of an adult preying on the youth. Should this be 18? 21? 14? Dunno, and open to the debate. But that adult fucker supplying that 17yo dealer should be punished. Harsh and publicly.

I rode the school bus with kids (one was <13yo) who grew their own weed and sold to their mates. He was just modeling his parents. Fuck his folks, but his case would be a hard one to adjudicate. And that was just mj.

[Jacques Strap]

often read that Heroin is lot easier on the system over time than alcohol is.

I would agree with you in that ethanol is a very dirty compound with many different cellular targets in many different tissues, and that prolonged abuse often results in extensive damage to many different systems.

But I would disagree that with opioids the acute lethal dose isn’t what we are concerned about; I think the risk of OD is exactly what is troubling about these compounds.

There are many alcoholics who have destroyed themselves with a lifetime of drinking, but it’s hard to find junkies who have been on the horse for decades. Dee Dee Ramone had a good long run though, but I think he’s the exception.

[SumJongGuy]

Today the FDA approved NARCAN for OTC purchases! Not giving it away like COVID tests yet but this is a huge step in that direction..

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/pres...20prescription.

[BCMtnHound]

Today the FDA approved NARCAN for OTC purchases! Not giving it away like COVID tests yet but this is a huge step in that direction..

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/pres...20prescription.

You guys needed a prescription to carry naloxone? They give that stuff away over the counter at the pharmacy here for several years now (ampules and needle, so needs a bit of knowledge to administer). My understanding it’s completely synthetic with no proteins, so no risk as an allergen, and little to no risk to any other contraindications (other than the chance the user wakes up and clocks you cause you just killed their high).

[old goat]

It's the lay friendly delivery system that makes Narcan, like epipen, expensive. (Or so the company would like us to believe. ) Mayve we need to start teaching high schoolers how to draw up and give injections (when they're not studying critical race theory and being groomed by pedophile teachers). And the general public. Like CPR. When I went home from the hospital taking 80mg of oxycodone a day they were required to send me home with a narcan injector. Covered by insurance. I'd like to see the govt cover the cost.

[riser4]

It's the lay friendly delivery system that makes Narcan, like epipen, expensive. (Or so the company would like us to believe. ) Mayve we need to start teaching high schoolers how to draw up and give injections (when they're not studying critical race theory and being groomed by pedophile teachers). And the general public. Like CPR. When I went home from the hospital taking 80mg of oxycodone a day they were required to send me home with a narcan injector. Covered by insurance. I'd like to see the Sackler family cover the cost in perpetuity.

Fify

[ironhippy]

When I went home from the hospital taking 80mg of oxycodone a day

In your opinion, was that anywhere near necessary?

Surely you could ride out the pain for a few days/weeks without needing a heroic dose of heroin? I mean that used to happen all the time, sure you may not be comfortable, but isn't it better than chasing the dragon?

I know of an ex addict that refused pain medicine after an appendix removal. He was in rough shape for a few days, but he came out of it with his sobriety.

[SumJongGuy]

You guys needed a prescription to carry naloxone? They give that stuff away over the counter at the pharmacy here for several years now (ampules and needle, so needs a bit of knowledge to administer). My understanding it’s completely synthetic with no proteins, so no risk as an allergen, and little to no risk to any other contraindications (other than the chance the user wakes up and clocks you cause you just killed their high).

This concept was a big part of why I started this thread, to suggest this practice as a starting point to slow the bleeding while we work towards reducing the causes of said bleeding.

[riser4]

Then there was the time in the mid 90s that I snorted a bag of H because I had my wisdom teeth out that morning, it was a Friday night, they hurt like fuck, and no way was I getting the dentist to help me at 1am. I ran into someone I knew and whaddya know, he wasn't clean anymore and he had the relief I needed. My punishment was that I got dry socket a few days later, which was worse. I didn't OD, which was nice. Definitely wasn't a good idea then and a horribly bad idea now.

[riser4]

This concept was a big part of why I started this thread, to suggest this practice as a starting point to slow the bleeding while we work towards reducing the causes of said bleeding.

If by bleeding, you mean sucking chest wound, then ya, let's have at it

[Trackhead]

Mayve we need to start teaching high schoolers how to draw up and give injections (when they're not studying critical race theory and being groomed by pedophile teachers). And the general public. Like CPR.

That ain't happening in the schools in my mullet/flatbed/diesel rancher town At least not yet........./thread drift