Rant here about proposed mountain “improvements”

[Core Shot]

I posted in the Jackson stoke thread. And Djongo is right. That’s a stoke thread.
This is the place to bitch and moan about any mountain.

Lemme know what the money grubbing owners have in the plans for your hill

==============

Let’s fuck up the best part of JH

https://www.jhnewsandguide.com/news/...fc261a5bc.html

I can’t believe this could happen.

[rideit]

As said in the other post, this has been the plan for 40 years or more.
I just hope that if they get away with this, they have to build ten more miles of lift access bike trails.

[Core Shot]

I know they dreamed of the expansion, but it was never formal.
Cody and lower sublette have been on the plan for decades. And yet they built Teton instead. I cried. And then I rode the lift and I think it’s great. Tons more options including OB. I’m sure JHAF is bummed their chute is so easy.

Lower sublette makes sense to me. Not having to go to the base would be nice.

But killing side country is stupid. There are so many people that don’t want to earn turns, but like snow science, avy awareness, and the quietude.

Moved out East and cannon mountain was a favorite. Mittersill was an abandoned area that was a short shuffle up the ridge. They put in a lift and now it’s useless. Easy side country has value.

PS. Thinking about the logistics is insane.
Roping off dangers and the boundary?
Clearing a fuck ton of trees on the way to the yurt
How many more patrollers needed?

PPS. My son made a good point that if it’s inbounds and they can’t control it you can’t go through the gate.
Also, the shadows and pucker and eights will suck if they get bombed regularly.

PPPS. It’s not even good inbounds terrain. At least not by JH standards.

[Trackhead]

I didn't ski lifts for 30 elitist years. Now that I'm old, feable, and like skiing lifts with my kids I propose the following blatant hypocrisy.

1. A lift up Mt. Moran and Buck Mtn, and Teewinot, because those are fun to ski.
2. Interconnect in the Wasatch and a lift up Timpanogos, or a few lifts up Timp.
3. I lift up the Big Belts so I don't have to buy a sled.

[raisingarizona13]

As said in the other post, this has been the plan for 40 years or more.
I just hope that if they get away with this, they have to build ten more miles of lift access bike trails.

My thoughts went straight to "the bike trails down through there would be sick!"

[raisingarizona13]

I know they dreamed of the expansion, but it was never formal.
Cody and lower sublette have been on the plan for decades. And yet they built Teton instead. I cried. And then I rode the lift and I think it’s great. Tons more options including OB. I’m sure JHAF is bummed their chute is so easy.

Lower sublette makes sense to me. Not having to go to the base would be nice.

But killing side country is stupid. There are so many people that don’t want to earn turns, but like snow science, avy awareness, and the quietude.

Moved out East and cannon mountain was a favorite. Mittersill was an abandoned area that was a short shuffle up the ridge. They put in a lift and now it’s useless. Easy side country has value.

PS. Thinking about the logistics is insane.
Roping off dangers and the boundary?
Clearing a fuck ton of trees on the way to the yurt
How many more patrollers needed?

PPS. My son made a good point that if it’s inbounds and they can’t control it you can’t go through the gate.
Also, the shadows and pucker and eights will suck if they get bombed regularly.

PPPS. It’s not even good inbounds terrain. At least not by JH standards.

The one thing you mention that I agree with is that if it's in bounds terrain and they can't do avi mitigation straight away it may remain closed compared to the current situation where it's always open. that part would suck. I did say that in the JXN stoke thread.

Here's the harsh reality though about ski resorts, you and I don't actually matter. Local skiers that buy a season pass don't really matter. Bro brahs coming in from other places with that mega pass the Vill is on that don't buy any food or t shirts on the mountain and crash on their Buddys couches? Yeah, they don't matter either.

We don't keep the lights on. If anything I bet most resorts would rather not even deal with a local population.

The terrain is actually awesome in RS and GR for groomer skiing. It has natural rolls and short headwalls into user friendly run outs. Sure they would have to do a lot of leveling and blasting but it will happen. I fucking guarantee it. It will have that Euro feel back there and the tourists that drop 10+ thousand (probably closer to 20k and up) dollars on their vacation in Jackson will love it. Heck, I'd love that experience.

Thinking of the logistics to the Vill to many would be extreme but it gets done and exceptionally well. Silverton's program is mind boggling, making RS and GR part of the ski area isn't that big of a deal.

You're reacting to something you don't like. Humans are a lot like snow pack in that they reject change, it even makes them angry and hostile. I get it, I deal with it every day as a trail builder but in the end everything becomes fine and we move on.

I would be surprised if they aren't trying to figure out a new bae area somewhere below RS and GR. I'm sure it's locked up in something something but exchanges and big money deals can always change these things.

I don't live there and I can't afford to even visit so I clearly don't give a shit what goes on with the side country. The last time I visited the place was already too busy for me. I hate racing for powder and ski lines. It makes me anxious. I'll never forget the days I had my first season though in 98 doing lap after lap in RS with a couple of my friends not seeing another soul all day every day. We were in heaven and that is unfortunately the bar that I will always compare it to.

So yeah, hopefully there's some sick down hill trails through there before I'm too old to ride em!

[toast2266]

I've only skied that zone a little bit. If they expanded the inbounds terrain to there, would easily accessed sidecountry not just move to the next bowl to the south?

When my local hill expanded, it kinda ruined some nice sidecountry terrain, but it also made access to some other stuff easier. So there was a shift in skiing patterns, but not really a loss of sidecountry.

[Toadman]

what raisingarizona13 said.

If it draws some extra cash to extract from the rich, then that's the name of the game. If you ain't upgrading and adding the Disneyland of skiing experience, someone else is going to take that money. Capitalism at it's finest.

[jackstraw]

Yeah but, hold on! So would they close Spacewalk and ZeroG? That would be an fn travesty!

[raisingarizona13]

what raisingarizona13 said.

If it draws some extra cash to extract from the rich, then that's the name of the game. If you ain't upgrading and adding the Disneyland of skiing experience, someone else is going to take that money. Capitalism at it's finest.

It is what it is. I've become ok with all of this. It's the name of the game here. I get a crack at the Snowbowls social media comments about how they only care about money or, they don't care about the locals......yeah, no shit! It's a business ya dumb asses! I don't reply that tho

@toast, Not really on having much more to access. Four Pines would be the new RS and No Name might be quicker but for the most part the next area over isn't quite the match. I think there may be an actual bighorn closure somewhere on Rendevous as well and that area gets pretty darn wind whooped. At least that's how I'm seeing it, I could be wrong, there is some sick terrain beyond the normal south stuff.

So yeah, I totally get Coreshots reaction here, I would probably have been losing my shit 20 years ago about this but I'm getting old and have very little F's to give any more. I've got a kid, bills to pay and some real world problems shit and I don't see myself skiing at the Vill more than maybe one more time in this lifetime so that's where I'm at. There' a whole world out there to explore, I done the Vill already and have moved on.

[raisingarizona13]

Yeah but, hold on! So would they close Spacewalk and ZeroG? That would be an fn travesty!

And there is a shit ton more terrain that would probably fall under the permanently closed area designation that locals have been enjoying for 23 years now since the boundaries opened.

I would hope that the classics would be managed to remain open to the public but it would probably be a staged opening sort of system like they do in LLC resorts or at least for a while, while they figure out how to manage it.

But shit, how old are you guys now? I'm 47 so by the time this happens I'll probably be pushing 60-65 maybe even 70. I don't care what happens anywhere once I'm dead or practically dead anyways.

[jackstraw]

But shit, how old are you guys now? I'm 47 so by the time this happens I'll probably be pushing 60-65 maybe even 70. I don't care what happens anywhere once I'm dead or practically dead anyways.

When my kid said to me that 'skiing is just fucked' it really hurt. And he meant the ski "bum" life. He's thought about skiing for a year or two, but it's so much more difficult today.

I'm older than you at 55. My first season was '89 at the Village. It was an epic year. A bunch of like minded converged at the same time. We skied every day, drank beer balls, and watch blizzard of ahhs every night. Later most were in continuum. I just want moments/seasons like that for future generations. And maybe it will or could happen, but just different i guess. Idk. Change for the worse, imo anyway, is tough. Can't stop it, so rolling like you say is best.

[Buster Highmen]

I'm practically dead but still see the need for more lifts. Preferably new ski areas.

Seeing the hole in the ground where the St. Bernard used to be is a wrencher.

[raisingarizona13]

When my kid said to me that 'skiing is just fucked' it really hurt. And he meant the ski "bum" life. He's thought about skiing for a year or two, but it's so much more difficult today.

I'm older than you at 55. My first season was '89 at the Village. It was an epic year. A bunch of like minded converged at the same time. We skied every day, drank beer balls, and watch blizzard of ahhs every night. Later most were in continuum. I just want moments/seasons like that for future generations. And maybe it will or could happen, but just different i guess. Idk. Change for the worse, imo anyway, is tough. Can't stop it, so rolling like you say is best.

And you're still doing trail work for fun? That's rad and we are definitely in the same weirdo trail nerd club!

I agree tho, different world and yeah, it does suck! Human breeding has been a little out of control.

If the climate science is right we ain't seen nuthin yet though unfortunately.

[PB]

Expansion, if done well/comprehensively, is fine: opens new areas with minimal impact on established areas (including side country - big challenge, I'm willing to be flexible as they're probably opening up new side country), and infrastructure exceeds the addition i.e. they actually make up for the piss-poor previous expansion.

I'm lookin' at you, Pali-OV.

[byates1]

I'm practically dead but still see the need for more lifts. Preferably new ski areas.

Seeing the hole in the ground where the St. Bernard used to be is a wrencher.

Talked to an ops woman this morning about the st. B. It's coming back. Will be high end. A year or two

[muted reborn]

That plan is horrible for sure, don't get me wrong, but after my initial revulsion my second reaction was 'finally there will be some good inbounds terrain in JH'

[east or bust]

You know the worst part?

We all know the paved yellow brick road they bulldoze down RS is gunna be a slow zone the whole way down


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[yeahman]

I love skiing Big Sky but I've talked to old timers who used to hunt elk up in that area before the place ever existed and they will go to their graves feeling bitter about it. Just different perspectives.

[Bunion 2020]

I spent my entire career helping to open new terrain and was a part of some really big expansions. Change happens.

[Squirreljam]

Seeing the hole in the ground where the St. Bernard used to be is a wrencher.

Yeh, mid 50s here w kids just getting to college, they got to grow up skiing so privileged I know - but the one thing I’ve wished for for years was a ski week at the st b, skiing (and eating) with Jean. Idunno if it’s me or wut, but losing the old flavor of skiing sucks.

[byates1]

^ they are going to do ski weeks again at the new st b

[toast2266]

The biggest gripe I have is that every time my local mountain (whitefish) installs a new lift, they put it *slightly* in the wrong spot. Over the last decade, they've installed / moved 5 lifts. 4 out of 5 of them require uphill skating at either the top or the bottom (or both). And that'd be excusable if the terrain dictated the lift placement, but in every case it doesn't. And in 1 case, the dumb lift placement actually creates a super dangerous intersection completely unnecessarily. If the lift was one tower shorter, there'd be no uphill skating off the exit ramp, there'd be no dangerous intersection, and there'd be no diminishment of access from the lift.

They also just installed a brand new, 10 million dollar 6 pack, which no one uses because it stops about 100 feet short of where it needs to go. And since it stops short, it accesses about 40% of the hill instead of 80%. Although I have mixed feelings about that one since I don't mind hiking the last 100 feet, and there's never a lift line at that lift, so that's nice. But that new chair breaks down so often that even the tourists have started calling it "The Gambler."

[SnakeMagnet]

The LL expansion that's ongoing is a mixed bag but they sure as shit have their priorities a bit messed. Yeah WestBowl was an easy sell to open first as all the infrastructure is already there and I appreciate patrol keeping idiots from slabbing the bowl before its ready to go, but they've overdone it with the trimming. Far too nicely manicured trees; in its "oly" zone especially, when all that really needed doing was clearing all the bushes that clog the lanes of travel. With the aspect and elevation clearing that much cover turns the snow to shit much faster. And kills the 'lift-accessed bc' vibe it had in its pre-open/1st year; it really felt like you were exploring trying to pick a line through the bottom half of outback eg.

Maybe the upper juniper lift will fix the glaring problem of the base-bottlenecking, but that's been a problem ever since oly and giant got ripped out and that lift's about 20 years late to the party. Does nothing to fix the awkward traverse to get to the former eagle chair zone either. Probably going to delay that for a bunch of mediocre angle south-facing shit on the ridge first too.

And they got rid of elevator shaft to get the land rights. I get it, 40 minute hike, hardly used. But damn sucks to lose any inbounds terrain specially in a season like this.

--

And meanwhile i'm just waiting for anything to get started at Fortress or Castle..

[nest]

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