What did I do wrong on a pow day?

[GoldenBC]

Yah 14” was the deepest and softest snow I had ever skied… seemed like blower to me but maybe my knowledge of snow jargon is off… all I know is I completely sunk in 14” and tried to pick up speed to rise up and above, the snow never allowed me to plane and I kept trying to get them up and out and my legs where gassed after the first run. The bottom felt like an ice rink with no ability to press against anything to make a turn. Like no support for a turn. At the same time it felt if I leaned forward I was going over the bars.

Here’s a video of the dreamcatcher drop at the beginning. Maybe the footage will provide some snow quality clarity.

https://youtu.be/-2AoqUrYZE4

I actually felt better skiing later when it was chopped up, but maybe that was the ipas talking…


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I'd say your terrain is too flat. But that's just me.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Can someone explain the wax thing? Why is that important? To my 8th-grade-physics brain, I don't get how the slipperiness of your bases would matter in keeping tips up or not.

In anything but steeper terrain you can’t get enough speed to plane with the wrong wax. If it’s around 0 or lower you need a polar wax. Purple for single digits and teens. It does matter

So op could have three problems affecting his experience that day. Unfamiliar with the ski and deep snow as well as the lack of or wrong wax

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[GoldenBC]

Can someone explain the wax thing? Why is that important? To my 8th-grade-physics brain, I don't get how the slipperiness of your bases would matter in keeping tips up or not.

Skis grabbing will cause you to decelerate and shift weight forward.

[RadSkier_]

Yah 14” was the deepest and softest snow I had ever skied… seemed like blower to me but maybe my knowledge of snow jargon is off… all I know is I completely sunk in 14” and tried to pick up speed to rise up and above, the snow never allowed me to plane and I kept trying to get them up and out and my legs where gassed after the first run. The bottom felt like an ice rink with no ability to press against anything to make a turn. Like no support for a turn. At the same time it felt if I leaned forward I was going over the bars.

Here’s a video of the dreamcatcher drop at the beginning. Maybe the footage will provide some snow quality clarity.

https://youtu.be/-2AoqUrYZE4

I actually felt better skiing later when it was chopped up, but maybe that was the ipas talking…


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I watched your video and it all made sense to me: Speed. You need more speed. Wax may be a small part of it but I felt like you were still making Z turns in that deep snow when you should have been going straight. Centered stance and speed is all you need.

Also, here is a clip of a heli-guide crushing 60CM of powder in the same skis you are using (Atomic Bents). You can see in this clip that he skis very centered and is handling the snow with ease. I'm posting this to reassure you that the skis are great - just need some adjustments on your end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f43Sx5Rr504

As it has been said a bunch the gear is only a small part of the equation. Just gotta get the reps!

[plugboots]

JHC. It ain’t the skis.

[toast2266]

JHC. It ain’t the skis.

Yeah it is.

Look at almost any pow ski that's discussed in here. A huge percentage of them have mixed reviews. Like I was just reading some people's takes on the praxis FRS yesterday. A couple very good skiers think they're the best thing ever and slay everything. A couple other very good skiers think the tips dive and they're unstable in chop.

The problem isn't that the skis have some fundamental design flaw. But it does mean that the skis don't work for the skier that's on them. A different skier with a different skiing style might make them work fine, but that doesn't mean the problem isn't the skis for this particular skier.

Sure, someone could *maybe* change their skiing style to suit the skis. Or they could just go to gearswap and spend $300 on a ski that suits them better.

[XXX-er]

Lower angle with 25cms of fresh it slows you down too much to do anything but go straight

so get out of that virgin pow and gain some speed by hitting an existing track

AKA Sloppy seconds

[gaijin]

About the wax thing, what I’m trying to iterate, especially in staticky snow, is how dry bases stick to snow. It’s kind of about speed, but when staticky (or sharp, dry) crystals stick to the base the tips dive.

Japan’s snow made me highly aware of this more so than west coast snow. And massive surface areas of modern pow skis have accentuated this in my experience.

My Rens are completely different skis from day one to day two of my wax cycle.

Dominator Zoom Graphite for fighting staticky snow ( static builds up in wind— crystals constantly smashing into each other). Hyper zoom for the really cold.

Modern ski shapes are so amazing, and such a crutch that anytime someone says they didn’t like a pow ski in pow, I immediate assume the running base is dry.

Ski moar, and you’ll notice wax. People who say they don’t notice wax always make me question their mileage/experience.

That said— I do know a bunch of badasses who never wax and don’t give a shit.


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[plugboots]

Yeah it is.

Look at almost any pow ski that's discussed in here. A huge percentage of them have mixed reviews. Like I was just reading some people's takes on the praxis FRS yesterday. A couple very good skiers think they're the best thing ever and slay everything. A couple other very good skiers think the tips dive and they're unstable in chop.

The problem isn't that the skis have some fundamental design flaw. But it does mean that the skis don't work for the skier that's on them. A different skier with a different skiing style might make them work fine, but that doesn't mean the problem isn't the skis for this particular skier.

Sure, someone could *maybe* change their skiing style to suit the skis. Or they could just go to gearswap and spend $300 on a ski that suits them better.

I bet you’re a pretty good cyclist and you could go pretty good on a tricycle.
I used to tell people that Lance could kick anybody’s ass on anybody’s bike.
You know what I mean.
I’ve skied that line in the video at least a dozen times since 1980. Starting with Dynamic 210 GS, through 196 Lhasa Pows, and whatever I was wearing whatever day I was there. So would you.

[muted reborn]

Sorry, it's the skis. Ditch them and find a pair that works.

[toast2266]

I bet you’re a pretty good cyclist and you could go pretty good on a tricycle.

Just using the bike analogy, I don't ride my dirt jumper much these days. Every time I get back on that thing I feel like a total hack. There's nothing wrong with the bike, and I used to ride it really well, but it's not what I'm used to these days. Plenty of other people could hop right on it and shred, and if I spent a bunch of time on it, I'd get used to it again. But if I want to just go out for a rip on a bike, I don't grab the dirt jumper because it feels weird to me - it's too different from what I'm used to.

[Djongo Unchained]

Seems OP is a learner getting deep advice from a bucketload of pros.



Any ski, any snow, any turn = Expert

One opine...

[EWG]

Seems OP is a learner getting deep advice from a bucketload of pros.



Any ski, any snow, any turn = Expert

One opine...

Well, I mean sure, that's true, but OP isn't trying to be an expert. He's just trying to have a nice experience in deep snow. Some of us, myself included, told him he needs to change his stance when skiing progressive skis. Some of us said just get different skis. Either thing would work, and either would be a lot faster than spending 8 seasons of 100 days on snow to get to DJs "any turn, any snow, any ski" point.

Remember this is all about fun. I'm fine if someone wants the shortest route to the fun.

As for a careless attitude regarding wax only belonging to low mileage skiers, I ski maybe half the days per year DJ skis, but that still leaves me with 40-50 days minimum, and I spent a bunch of time on nordic sticks growing up as well, where they really care about wax. If I'm nordic or racing downhill I'd care about wax. Otherwise, as long as my bases aren't bone dry, I'm not worrying about wax. And even then I've skied plenty of trad and progressive skis in deep snow that had nearly no wax on them and ripped things up just fine.

Like DJ says - the end game is "Any ski, any snow, any turn." And maybe I'd add "any pitch." But OP doesn't need to get to the end game to have fun. And maybe we should add - "any wax" (or none.) Hell, girl-child EWG has been ripping around SLC for the last couple of months with some spansared guys you would recognize from the 'Gram and I guarantee you she hasn't waxed her skis in her last 20 ski days, despite me telling her to. Does not seem to prevent her from keeping up. Maybe wax would help the OP but I just have never considered it a big deal in 3D snow.

Anyway, just trying to keep the thread on track - it's not a debate about the end game, it's just trying to help the OP have a better time on the quick. In the immortal words of South Park: "If ya drive forward when yer supposed to be centered, yer gonna have a bad time."

Edit: that kinda sounded like I was picking a fight about the wax. Not meant to. Simply my opinion.

[Djongo Unchained]

Yeah dude, the expert take was for all the commenters more than the new kid. I realize he ain't us.
I think the light snow, thrown down the night before, was stiff but not heavy. Somewhat unusual combi and a more refined feel is needed to work the fore/aft balance required by his skis.
And the scratchy base is another aspect to deal with.

We've had many small events this year where you'da been better off treating that 8-14" like it wasn't even there. Hard pack underneath will buck ya.


As 2funky pointed out, the OP showed his belly early and I give him points for that. And It's cool that, mostly, we've been hepful moar and snarky less.

If Junior Samples wanted to spend a pow day together, I'd impart as much as I could to help him dial it in.

Wax is funny. I use a lot as I burn it off a lot. And it makes a difference. Yet, I think every one of us, to a man, have either experienced or seen some dry as fuckall skis go flying past us.
It's weird. Lotsa other factors, weight, momentum, etc. but still...

[whyturn]

You turned. Can’t sink if you don’t turn


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[XXX-er]

im pretty sure as oposed to the skis or the wax or what he was wearing or how buddy was griiting his teeth

he didnt know what he was doing

suggest you ski more

[GoldenBC]

Get a directional ski.

I just skied 2’ of settled -30C pow on hojis and ARG (@-1cm). The type of snow that will go over your head but also swallow you alive. I’m over progressive mounted skis for super deep snow. They have their place but I want a tip I can lean on, drive, submerge and pop back up, and relax and cruise. These guys want to dive and don’t come back up on their own like my Corvus did or QST 106 even do. I miss traditional.

[gaijin]

2’ of -30c of settled?

My lord. Must have been like dropping into an ocean of needles.

[SnowMachine]

About the wax thing, what I’m trying to iterate, especially in staticky snow, is how dry bases stick to snow. It’s kind of about speed, but when staticky (or sharp, dry) crystals stick to the base the tips dive.

Japan’s snow made me highly aware of this more so than west coast snow. And massive surface areas of modern pow skis have accentuated this in my experience.

My Rens are completely different skis from day one to day two of my wax cycle.

Dominator Zoom Graphite for fighting staticky snow ( static builds up in wind— crystals constantly smashing into each other). Hyper zoom for the really cold.

Modern ski shapes are so amazing, and such a crutch that anytime someone says they didn’t like a pow ski in pow, I immediate assume the running base is dry.

Ski moar, and you’ll notice wax. People who say they don’t notice wax always make me question their mileage/experience.

That said— I do know a bunch of badasses who never wax and don’t give a shit.


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Thursday we skied about 15" of consolidated pow and my kid was complaining about float on Bent Minis. It nuked all night. I hit his skis with low temp Swix before Friday. We rode terrain that hadn't opened all week. Lap after lap of 36" of fresh. He floated it like it was nothing. This thread made his day. I definitely think it's huge in really cold conditions (I've had to scrape ice off my skis in AK before when I had the wrong temp wax).

Coincidence or no.... it seemed to work for my kid. I was riding my full rocker 126 UF. Unsinkable.

[SnowMachine]

Just using the bike analogy, I don't ride my dirt jumper much these days. Every time I get back on that thing I feel like a total hack. There's nothing wrong with the bike, and I used to ride it really well, but it's not what I'm used to these days. Plenty of other people could hop right on it and shred, and if I spent a bunch of time on it, I'd get used to it again. But if I want to just go out for a rip on a bike, I don't grab the dirt jumper because it feels weird to me - it's too different from what I'm used to.

I'm becoming a believer in skiing a quiver that compliments itself. Jumping across radically different skis day to day does nothing good for my skiing.

[skinipenem]

Interesting thread...
Fwiw, in my limited and shittty experience I'll reiterate the following:

1) if you feel backseat when skiing, and not just on that ski that day, then consider ramp angle and delta. Backseat can load your tails and drive your tips down; thereby destroying your legs in compensatory measures.

2) some skis paired with inappropriate mount points and boot setup (see #1 above) will suck balls and tip dive on LOW angle pow. Ski steeper pitches and hills your dick on the low angle stuff (straight line or Stay very centered. )

3) wax

4) mount point too far forward

5) ski a more traditional ski... seems to allow for a larger and more forward balance point to pressure into... I can't comment that well on this though (as already mentioned my shotty experience)

6) technique. Ski with someone better. Experiment. fore aft balance while skiing. In other words, get crazy go from the tips to the tails. Slide the skiis sideways; slarve. Play with bouncing vs. Soaring. IOW try bouncing multiple times within each turn and try the opposite soaring with little up and down movement.

7) I haven't skied the bents... but some snow, ski, speed, and pitch combinations result in skiing through or sometimes underneath the snow. Embrace it. Really not a risk until there are hidden rocks and worse logs.

8) experiment with different speeds; however, your speed looked moderate and adequate.

9) I suppose it is possible you are driving the tips too hard. Consider light shin pressure and allowing your entire foot to spread out across the boot sole like pancake battter or Fred's goo on a hookers chest.


I am a huge believer in boot alignment. You can search the boot alignment threads in tgr for more info.

Careful about some of the advice here about just skiing more. While you will definitely benefit from more reps, realize that a lot of mags ski so well and have more experience than you or i will ever have that they can make anything look great. You are definitely not that mag.

Getting off the throne now and my soapbox too.

Flame away

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[XXX-er]

what he said ^^^ don't ski more pow, you will just track it up for the rest of us

[skinipenem]

what he said ^^^ don't ski more pow, you will just track it up for the rest of us

Shit, that's number 10.

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[Bushwacka]

Interesting thread...
Fwiw, in my limited and shittty experience I'll reiterate the following:

1) if you feel backseat when skiing, and not just on that ski that day, then consider ramp angle and delta. Backseat can load your tails and drive your tips down; thereby destroying your legs in compensatory measures.

2) some skis paired with inappropriate mount points and boot setup (see #1 above) will suck balls and tip dive on LOW angle pow. Ski steeper pitches and hills your dick on the low angle stuff (straight line or Stay very centered. )

3) wax

4) mount point too far forward

5) ski a more traditional ski... seems to allow for a larger and more forward balance point to pressure into... I can't comment that well on this though (as already mentioned my shotty experience)

6) technique. Ski with someone better. Experiment. fore aft balance while skiing. In other words, get crazy go from the tips to the tails. Slide the skiis sideways; slarve. Play with bouncing vs. Soaring. IOW try bouncing multiple times within each turn and try the opposite soaring with little up and down movement.

7) I haven't skied the bents... but some snow, ski, speed, and pitch combinations result in skiing through or sometimes underneath the snow. Embrace it. Really not a risk until there are hidden rocks and worse logs.

8) experiment with different speeds; however, your speed looked moderate and adequate.

9) I suppose it is possible you are driving the tips too hard. Consider light shin pressure and allowing your entire foot to spread out across the boot sole like pancake battter or Fred's goo on a hookers chest.


I am a huge believer in boot alignment. You can search the boot alignment threads in tgr for more info.

Careful about some of the advice here about just skiing more. While you will definitely benefit from more reps, realize that a lot of mags ski so well and have more experience than you or i will ever have that they can make anything look great. You are definitely not that mag.

Getting off the throne now and my soapbox too.

Flame away

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best run down of the whole thread......

Physically alignment changes to binding and boots will have physically changes to how someone stands and moves. I think that you can make even best skiing mag fucked up if you fucked with their alignment, there is only so much you compensate for before it starts to become an insurmountable obstacle to good skiing.

[mcski]

Maybe. But I still think he should try drinkin piss