Employees Quitting

[oldnew_guy]

Regarding giving an employee a 2 week notice before firing. If the reason for termination is an individual’s poor performance, bad behavior etc. and not part of a larger RIF you could leave the business (and other workers) vulnerable. Usually in the form of sabotage to business systems or theft of property, client disruption, and in the worst case a disgruntled workplace violence event. Businesses can be held liable for negligent retention if a person isn’t removed once identified as a problem.

Layoffs usually come with a payout, and if the company isn’t a bunch of dicks, a couple months notice.


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Just change “employee/individual” to “employer” and reread that.

[AK47bp]

Just change “employee/individual” to “employer” and reread that.

Works both ways


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[XXX-er]

this is the escence of work in a small town, I was talking to a bud on small town mainstreet and he sez "what day is it ? oh today is tuesday oops I'm doing yada in 10 min gotta run ! " some people have 5 jobs, one for each day of the week

If I was giving one day of work per week a week I would be checking in with employee to find out where they are at, " howyadoin are ya gona be around for the next month ? " so I wouldn't be suprise'd if they blew off the gig and I would be already looking for their replacement or have someone I can call

IMO the 2 weeks of notice is for a real 40hr per week job, for a 1 day per week job OP should be expecting people don't show and always trolling for the replacement ... as opposed to the whining

[Supermoon]

An employee doesn't "owe" their employer anything. Especially right now in our "right to work" landscape, where people can be fired or let go with little to no notice, and wildly fluctuating severance packages. Businesses only see employees as stats on expense spreadsheets, then preach about how everyone there is "family" while actively working to pay as few people as little as possible to work as much as they can.

Maybe you think you don't run your business that way, but you have to understand what it's been like for workers (especially young workers). So if you want a different relationship with your workers, you have to work at it, and prove you're different.

If you need two weeks notice when someone leaves, maybe incentivize people to give notice by paying them an additional two weeks, or a bonus, or whatever.

Personally, I would give two weeks notice to not screw over my friends who still work there, but not to "help" the business. If everyone who works there would be fine, then what's the point?

[californiagrown]

That rationale lives on the same two way street as the rest of this thread. It doesn’t matter if you’re a gig employer or hiring for decades-long careers, if you don’t want to be left in a lurch you get to know your employees and make sure you have a feel for how stable their situation is. That’s some management 101 shit.

Ive only been in mgmt for the past few years, so all ive known is an industry going gangbusters and everyone scrambling to hire any warm body they can. And in that landscape, we have been constantly under/barely staffed and have had to keep on problem employees because we cannot afford to lose their 15hrs of productive work every week (out of 40). I would love to replace these shitty employees, but damn it has been a difficult hiring environment. We do what we can to keep people happy, but when the employee holds all the power, like they have the last few years, some of them wield it like an asshole. I dont think anyone is saying that a company/boss shouldn't strive to treat employees well, and run their program at sustainable levels, etc... we are just griping about what is a perceived lack of civility by some ex employees. Just as we would gripe about getting laid off with no notice and no severance.

When i was staff level i would have been pissed if another staff left on no notice and essentially dumped a portion of their workload onto me. And yes, it would be up to me to figure it out because if we didnt hit deadlines, then we lost clients, and then i would be out of a job as well as my boss. You can foster a good team environment all you want, but there will always be shitty teammates. We are whining about those shitty teammates. Join in the fun.

[AdironRider]

You sound wonderful to work for.

[DBdude]

Its basic manners/ social ettiquite. Many people these days, including many in this thread, condone forgoing those in many aspects of life but especially in the workplace. Its shitty.

you know what is shitty... getting laid off

[californiagrown]

You sound wonderful to work for.

According to reviews i apparently am.


You must have lived one helluva charmed life to have never worked alongside/with/for an asshole or shitty person.

[DBdude]

Ive only been in mgmt for the past few years, so all ive known is an industry going gangbusters and everyone scrambling to hire any warm body they can. And in that landscape, we have been constantly under/barely staffed and have had to keep on problem employees because we cannot afford to lose their 15hrs of productive work every week (out of 40). I would love to replace these shitty employees, but damn it has been a difficult hiring environment. We do what we can to keep people happy, but when the employee holds all the power, like they have the last few years, some of them wield it like an asshole. I dont think anyone is saying that a company/boss shouldn't strive to treat employees well, and run their program at sustainable levels, etc... we are just griping about what is a perceived lack of civility by some ex employees. Just as we would gripe about getting laid off with no notice and no severance.

When i was staff level i would have been pissed if another staff left on no notice and essentially dumped a portion of their workload onto me. And yes, it would be up to me to figure it out because if we didnt hit deadlines, then we lost clients, and then i would be out of a job as well as my boss. You can foster a good team environment all you want, but there will always be shitty teammates. We are whining about those shitty teammates. Join in the fun.

employees hold all the power - that is an oxymoron

you lose - do not pass go and do not collect $200

managers complaining about shitty workers - fucking laughing my ass off

you need to read a german feller by the name of schumpeter and his ideas on the power of creative destruction in manufacturing

[mcphee]

According to reviews i apparently am.

In the interest of self preservation I have given all my bosses good reviews.

[DBdude]

In the interest of self preservation I have given all my bosses good reviews.

exactly

four person team and you actually tell the truth - yeah they won't know who wrote that...

the employee has all the power... yes in fucking deedy

[XXX-er]

Its not joe employee's fault or probelm if the manager has issues retaining staff

IME you wana be nice to that manager and keep him cuz the next one might be worse

I had 4 managers in one year, I think I didnt even meet at least one of them just an e-mail that we had a new manager but the first one had given me a great rating just so he could give me a raise, so since i was remote the rest of them had no clue and they all gave me the same rating

i rode that one for quite awhile

[californiagrown]

In the interest of self preservation I have given all my bosses good reviews.

Really? I haven't. I've given constructive criticism multiple times.


Seems like exit interviews (from the company or group) would be good indicators and fairly unfiltered. But i guess i should hop on the "All Bosses Are Bastards" bus, because thats the cool thing to do here. I was wrong, its totally cool to ghost your boss and coworkers, and leave them to scramble and hopefully salvage the work they were relying on you for.

[nickwm21]

Regarding giving an employee a 2 week notice before firing. If the reason for termination is an individual’s poor performance, bad behavior etc. and not part of a larger RIF you could leave the business (and other workers) vulnerable. Usually in the form of sabotage to business systems or theft of property, client disruption, and in the worst case a disgruntled workplace violence event. Businesses can be held liable for negligent retention if a person isn’t removed once identified as a problem.

Layoffs usually come with a payout, and if the company isn’t a bunch of dicks, a couple months notice.


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I hate it but we even have to have some secrecy and zero notice with RIF layoffs of our skilled trade workers… The vast majority are great people and understand that projects come to an end and sometimes so does employment… but there are a few bad apples that force us to keep that timing close to the chest. Fake injuries / workers comp issues are the main concern….

Example: Mid COVID I had a antivax/antimask carpenter fake a knee injury two days before a employment/project based mask mandate kicked in….

The world we live in…. I wish it was different…


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[DBdude]

maybe he had something better to do that benefitted him. aka the invisible hand - aka how you run your business

[DBdude]

I hate it but we even have to have some secrecy and zero notice with RIF layoffs of our skilled trade workers… The vast majority are great people and understand that projects come to an end and sometimes so does employment… but there are a few bad apples that force us to keep that timing close to the chest. Fake injuries / workers comp issues are the main concern….

Example: Mid COVID I had a antivax/antimask carpenter fake a knee injury two days before a employment/project based mask mandate kicked in….

The world we live in…. I wish it was different…


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that really is a cost of doing business. The HR function as I was taught in B school is to insulate the risk of having employees to a company

[mcphee]

Really? I haven't. I've given constructive criticism multiple times.


Seems like exit interviews (from the company or group) would be good indicators and fairly unfiltered. But i guess i should hop on the "All Bosses Are Bastards" bus, because thats the cool thing to do here. I was wrong, its totally cool to ghost your boss and coworkers, and leave them to scramble and hopefully salvage the work they were relying on you for.

^not what I’m saying at all. Just saying you should take glowing reviews with a grain of salt. Not everyone is going to speak up because it’s not at all an anonymous review. If you know your employees, you know their gripes. If you don’t know their gripes, you know their syntax in how they talk or write.

[oldnew_guy]

Really? I haven't. I've given constructive criticism multiple times.


Seems like exit interviews (from the company or group) would be good indicators and fairly unfiltered. But i guess i should hop on the "All Bosses Are Bastards" bus, because thats the cool thing to do here. I was wrong, it’s totally cool to ghost your boss and coworkers, and leave them to scramble and hopefully salvage the work they were relying on you for.

No real incentive as an employee to divulge the truth or burn bridges in an exit interview.

As for the Bosses are Bastards…

Well, it’s the bosses who spent the last however many decades treating their employees so shitty that now that the employee has even a smidge of clout they are all Pichaku face about it.

This phenomenon of ghosting interviews, no notice, etc is in many cases the workplace culture and how the business is acting reflected right back at them.

[oldnew_guy]

I hate it but we even have to have some secrecy and zero notice with RIF layoffs of our skilled trade workers… The vast majority are great people and understand that projects come to an end and sometimes so does employment… but there are a few bad apples that force us to keep that timing close to the chest. Fake injuries / workers comp issues are the main concern….

Example: Mid COVID I had a antivax/antimask carpenter fake a knee injury two days before a employment/project based mask mandate kicked in….

The world we live in…. I wish it was different…


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Worked in a similar field, saw the same behavior from the company. I think it’s fine, so long as the company doesn’t expect anything different from the employees.

When I resigned and gave notice they gave me a hard time, wanted a longer transition, gave me more work (that didn’t get completed of course), wanted me to work longer hours the last two weeks. It was sort of pathetic.

[californiagrown]

^not what I’m saying at all. Just saying you should take glowing reviews with a grain of salt. Not everyone is going to speak up because it’s not at all an anonymous review. If you know your employees, you know their gripes. If you don’t know their gripes, you know their syntax in how they talk or write.

Agreed. Your everyday interactions are a better indicator of rapport in your team/program.

Well, it’s the bosses who spent the last however many decades treating their employees so shitty that now that the employee has even a smidge of clout they are all Pichaku face about it.

So you think all the old bosses are still the current bosses? Are you high? Do you not realize that boomers are gone, and Gen X has started retiring? The bosses now were staff just a couple years ago now. Yes, the same way it was pretty justified to whine about a boss being an asshole in the 90s is similar to why its justified whining about an employee being an asshole. They are an asshole!

The power dynamic shifted over the past couple years and so the asshole bosses could no longer afford to be assholes, while the asshole employees suddenly felt empowered to be assholes. Its a people problem, asshole. I dont know why this got turned into a socialist clusterfuck about the evils of managment and the downtrodden worker.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Really? I haven't. I've given constructive criticism multiple times.


Seems like exit interviews (from the company or group) would be good indicators and fairly unfiltered. But i guess i should hop on the "All Bosses Are Bastards" bus, because thats the cool thing to do here. I was wrong, its totally cool to ghost your boss and coworkers, and leave them to scramble and hopefully salvage the work they were relying on you for.

How old are you? What you’re reaping as a manager is the result of decades, if not centuries, of employers fucking over workers for the benefit of the bottom line of the owners. You might not be responsible for that but you’re a lackey for the man. You chose to get into management, could you not see this? Talk about clueless. Employees and employers are the same, they are human and a lot of humans are opportunistic and/or assholes. In my experience of 35 years working in healthcare a larger percentage of the selfish greedy folks try and get into management.

Oh, shouldn’t you be working instead of wasting time here?


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[MagnificentUnicorn]

Agreed. Your everyday interactions are a better indicator of rapport in your team/program.





So you think all the old bosses are still the current bosses? Are you high? Do you not realize that boomers are gone, and Gen X has started retiring? The bosses now were staff just a couple years ago now. Yes, the same way it was pretty justified to whine about a boss being an asshole in the 90s is similar to why its justified whining about an employee being an asshole. They are an asshole!

The power dynamic shifted over the past couple years and so the asshole bosses could no longer afford to be assholes, while the asshole employees suddenly felt empowered to be assholes. Its a people problem, asshole. I dont know why this got turned into a socialist clusterfuck about the evils of managment and the downtrodden worker.

If you can’t see how this thread went in this direction then you’re even more clueless than I thought and posted in the post above. Jesus Christ


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[oldnew_guy]

Agreed. Your everyday interactions are a better indicator of rapport in your team/program.





So you think all the old bosses are still the current bosses? Are you high? Do you not realize that boomers are gone, and Gen X has started retiring? The bosses now were staff just a couple years ago now. Yes, the same way it was pretty justified to whine about a boss being an asshole in the 90s is similar to why its justified whining about an employee being an asshole. They are an asshole!

The power dynamic shifted over the past couple years and so the asshole bosses could no longer afford to be assholes, while the asshole employees suddenly felt empowered to be assholes. It’sa people problem, asshole. I dont know why this got turned into a socialist clusterfuck about the evils of managment and the downtrodden worker.

This is pretty much the exact opposite of socialism. This is the labor side of the capitalist system flexing back at capital. You as a middle manager are caught in the middle.

New bosses don’t erase decades of employer disdain for employees overnight. The new generation has been taught by employers they need to move jobs often to increase salary (checks out in my experience), that employers will have no loyalty when the times get tough, that hiring officials will gatekeep jobs through bullshit hiring system, ghost interviews, etc.

This is like the abusive parent being surprised when they get punched in the face by the teenager.

[XXX-er]

we used to call it " the managers club " sure they made mo money but had to have all the backbone and 1/2 the brains removed

the best branch manager we ever had was always realistic, kind a guy with a somewhat irreverent attitude so yeah maybe this is bulshit nudge nudge but we still gotta do it

so once a month or maybe it was a quarter he would thro up a foil and say "OK fellas i need these figures on the BMI " and he usually got em

[LongShortLong]

I hate it but we even have to have some secrecy and zero notice with RIF layoffs of our skilled trade workers… The vast majority are great people and understand that projects come to an end and sometimes so does employment… but there are a few bad apples that force us to keep that timing close to the chest. Fake injuries / workers comp issues are the main concern….

Example: Mid COVID I had a antivax/antimask carpenter fake a knee injury two days before a employment/project based mask mandate kicked in….

The world we live in…. I wish it was different…


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Gotta ask, did they fake a knee injury, or previously fake not having an injury. Many people cover injuries and work hurt. Paychecks reliably pay the bills. Workers comp/disability doesn't. Try getting a job, or getting promoted, or keeping a job when they know you're hurt.