The Atomic Ski Boot Thread

[gregL]

Shopping for LV a touring boots for my wife. She’s in 95mm Dobermans for the resort, and has hated every touring boot (currently in Lange XT 110 LVs) she’s owned this far. She just tried on the new HAWX ULTRA XTD 115 BOA W GW, and in the shop they’re feeling better than anything she’s tried previously. They’re heavier and have less of a stride (still better than her Lange’s) than ideal for a 100% touring boot, but until there’s a LV version of the BACKLAND XTD CARBON 115 W, they might be the way to go.

There is no touring boot that fits like a 95mm plug boot; the Hawx Ultra XTD is the best thing available. If she's OK skiing in a 1000 g boot, the Backland Carbon is the lowest volume option in that category. Don't hold your breath waiting for anything better in a sub-98mm last to magically appear . . . Look for an older Hawx Ultra 115 XTD in polyamide without BOA if you want to drop 200 grams or so; they can be found super cheap.

[ptavv]

I ski a polyamide (pre-BOA) Hawx Ultra XTD 130 as my in-bounds and short-medium-distance touring boot. It can be turned into an excellent, weight competitive touring boot simply by swapping out the stock liner that it comes with. A ton of the boot's unimpressive weight is actually in the liner and its touring ROM is great once the fairly stiff stock-liner is swapped out.

I've skied it with intuition protours and tourwrap (my fav) as well as the liners from my TLT x. It gives up a few points of flex, but the improvements in touring and weight are well worth it.

[Jason4]

@OneNerdyKid or @gregL, I'm skiing in a 2020 Hawx XTD now in size 28/28.5, I just checked the shell fit with a dowel and have ~20mm between my heel and shell but have had a really hard time getting into a 27.5 shell. My skiing has improved since I bought the 28.5 and I think I'd benefit from a more aggressive fit, what are your thoughts on sizing down to a 27.5 if I buy a new pair of 2024 Hawx XTDs with boa? I prefer Backlands in a 27.5 but don't have the same trouble getting my foot into them that I have with the overlap of the Hawx. Thanks!

[Qilimanjaro]

Reminds me I could force my foot into XTD 130 ultra. My instep just wouldn’t fit. Managed to get into 120, but still pains to take on and off

[turnfarmer]

@OneNerdyKid or @gregL, I'm skiing in a 2020 Hawx XTD now in size 28/28.5, I just checked the shell fit with a dowel and have ~20mm between my heel and shell but have had a really hard time getting into a 27.5 shell. My skiing has improved since I bought the 28.5 and I think I'd benefit from a more aggressive fit, what are your thoughts on sizing down to a 27.5 if I buy a new pair of 2024 Hawx XTDs with boa? I prefer Backlands in a 27.5 but don't have the same trouble getting my foot into them that I have with the overlap of the Hawx. Thanks!

I recommend you get your heel instep perimeter measured.

See here-
https://blisterreview.com/gear-101/b...sues-and-myths

If your hip is 28.5 or bigger sizing down may not be a good idea.
If it is 27.5 or less it may be ok. But the Ultra series of boots are one of the hardest non race boots out there for ingress and egress.
Depending on your HIP you may be better off with a slightly thicker liner and stay at 28.5.

[altacoup]

I’ve got a pair of hawk ultra xtd130s. Fits great everywhere but the instep is a little tight. The shell is heat moldable but I don’t want the whole shell heated. Anyone think I could just heat the instep to create more space?

[gregL]

@OneNerdyKid or @gregL, I'm skiing in a 2020 Hawx XTD now in size 28/28.5, I just checked the shell fit with a dowel and have ~20mm between my heel and shell but have had a really hard time getting into a 27.5 shell. My skiing has improved since I bought the 28.5 and I think I'd benefit from a more aggressive fit, what are your thoughts on sizing down to a 27.5 if I buy a new pair of 2024 Hawx XTDs with boa? I prefer Backlands in a 27.5 but don't have the same trouble getting my foot into them that I have with the overlap of the Hawx. Thanks!

Hard to say without seeing you in person, but the new PU Hawx Ultra XTD is quite a bit easier to get in to than the old polyamide ones - it still has a narrow cuff circumference but the plastic is more "supple." Also, the new PU boots heat mold better than PA.

If you're doing a fair amount of touring in the boot, a 20mm shell fit isn't terrible. If you're shooting for hard charging precision at the ski area, it would be worth looking into the 27.5.

[gregL]

I’ve got a pair of hawk ultra xtd130s. Fits great everywhere but the instep is a little tight. The shell is heat moldable but I don’t want the whole shell heated. Anyone think I could just heat the instep to create more space?

Yes, you can certainly heat just the instep with a heat gun and use some sort of tool to raise the instep, but what's your rationale behind not heating the entire boot? It won't get bigger unless there is internal pressure from your foot, and it will correct minor alignment issues.

PS The other possibility is to grind a millimeter or two from the mid section of the bootboard, or thin your footbed . . .

[onenerdykid]

@OneNerdyKid or @gregL, I'm skiing in a 2020 Hawx XTD now in size 28/28.5, I just checked the shell fit with a dowel and have ~20mm between my heel and shell but have had a really hard time getting into a 27.5 shell. My skiing has improved since I bought the 28.5 and I think I'd benefit from a more aggressive fit, what are your thoughts on sizing down to a 27.5 if I buy a new pair of 2024 Hawx XTDs with boa? I prefer Backlands in a 27.5 but don't have the same trouble getting my foot into them that I have with the overlap of the Hawx. Thanks!

turnfarmer & GregL are spot on with their assessments. I'd just echo that the new 23/24 Hawx Ultra XTD will offer you a bit more toe room than your 2020 version. It will shell fit the same, but due to the change in plastics and new liner construction, you will have more toe space. Does this mean you can drop down to a 27/27.5? I won't be able to answer that via the interweb. You won't know until you can try both on and compare.

Also, just a general rule of thumb, when you drop down to a ~10mm shell fit, you usually need some sort of customization done to the shell in order to be happy. There's a small chance but I wouldn't expect a ~10mm shell fit to deliver a proper fit out of the box.

[waxloaf]

I’ve got a pair of hawk ultra xtd130s. Fits great everywhere but the instep is a little tight. The shell is heat moldable but I don’t want the whole shell heated. Anyone think I could just heat the instep to create more space?

I had the same question last season and GregL and others advised to just do the full shell bake. I did, and they fit like a charm. YMMV but I’m really happy I did the full bake


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[turnfarmer]

You can also do surgery on the tongue to gain some instep space, but few are willing to do this.

[Jason4]

I recommend you get your heel instep perimeter measured.

See here-
https://blisterreview.com/gear-101/b...sues-and-myths

If your hip is 28.5 or bigger sizing down may not be a good idea.
If it is 27.5 or less it may be ok. But the Ultra series of boots are one of the hardest non race boots out there for ingress and egress.
Depending on your HIP you may be better off with a slightly thicker liner and stay at 28.5.

I'll read up on the HIP, that's good advice, thank you! I feel slightly validated in hearing that I'm not the only one that thinks the Hawx Ultra is tough to get in and out of.

turnfarmer & GregL are spot on with their assessments. I'd just echo that the new 23/24 Hawx Ultra XTD will offer you a bit more toe room than your 2020 version. It will shell fit the same, but due to the change in plastics and new liner construction, you will have more toe space. Does this mean you can drop down to a 27/27.5? I won't be able to answer that via the interweb. You won't know until you can try both on and compare.

Also, just a general rule of thumb, when you drop down to a ~10mm shell fit, you usually need some sort of customization done to the shell in order to be happy. There's a small chance but I wouldn't expect a ~10mm shell fit to deliver a proper fit out of the box.

Even at 20mm I need shell work at my navicular bone so it will likely go into the oven either way and then get punched from there.

Thanks to ONK and gregL (and turnfarmer) for answering my questions!

[tenB]

Just a heads up that the new version Mimic Pro liner is no longer available for shops to order. Atomic has some sizes left on their retail site for customers to order direct. Maybe yours will come with the foam cartridges, unlike mine.

The new version appears to be a significant improvement with more substantial materials and density. Full report to come once the snow flies.

[gregL]

Even at 20mm I need shell work at my navicular bone so it will likely go into the oven either way and then get punched from there.

Doing a thorough (i.e. 10 minutes with a cold oven) heat mold does the trick with most problem naviculars, especially with the PU shells.

[gregL]

Just a heads up that the new version Mimic Pro liner is no longer available for shops to order. Atomic has some sizes left on their retail site for customers to order direct. Maybe yours will come with the foam cartridges, unlike mine.

The new version appears to be a significant improvement with more substantial materials and density. Full report to come once the snow flies.

Professional liners ordered direct from Atomic do not include the PU cartridges - there were some liners and boots that went out with outdated ones, and the isocyanate side (amber) had hardened up so they were unusable. Unfortunately the Atomic site doesn't mention this (or that you can't inject them yourself at home without the gun). Actually, you can't buy them online either.

You will have to find a shop that has a stock of the foam kits and the gun to get the foaming done (in the meantime, it is still an excellent Mimic liner that you can heat and ski, just without the extra heel hold).

PS If you bought the closeout 2023 Hawx Prime or Ultra Professionals (mostly through evo or Ski Monster), check the date on the foam kit, some were shipped with 2022 kits and probably shouldn't be used. If the cartridge is sealed with foil I might use an outdated one (some weren't sealed at all, some with cellaphane) but I would check to make sure the outlets aren't plugged up first).

[SkiLyft]

Can confirm -

New Mimic Pro HAWX liner is at my local shop.



BOA Stoke!!!



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[Jason4]

I stopped by my favorite ski shop today (Backcountry Essentials in Bellingham) and tried on a Hawx Ultra XTD in a 27.5 shell and ended up putting in an order for the Boa version. They are not stocking the boa version this year so I guess I’m their guinea pig. I also ordered Backland XTDs in 27.5. I’ll sell my original pair of Hawx and a few pairs of Backlands to make room in the closet.

I also ordered one of the pro dual straps but in my rush (I wasn’t planning on buying boots today, just checking to see if I could even get my foot into a 27.5) I ordered the Redster version instead of the Hawx version. What’s the difference and should I call them first thing in the morning before they actually put my order into the system to try to get it switched?

[GoldenBC]

The difference between Hawx and Redster versions is only the cam buckle. Hawx has a quick-release, Redster has a push-to-release. All other things are the same.

[GoldenBC]

How does the cuff height of the redster CS compare to the Hawx ultra xtd?

[onenerdykid]

How does the cuff height of the redster CS compare to the Hawx ultra xtd?

Redster (all versions) is slightly lower than Ultra/Ultra XTD. Ultra/Ultra XTD probably have the highest cuffs on the market at the moment, whereas Redster is more normal, on par with the likes of Lange, Head, Dalbello, etc.

I don't have boot near me to measure at the moment, but whenever you compare cuff heights (between any boots), you need to remove the liner and measure from the boot board. Just measuring external heights on a table doesn't give you the real picture because different boots have different stand heights due to their sole constructions. A taller looking boot might actually have a lower cuff height. So measuring from the boot board is the only real way to compare cuff height.

[gregL]

I stopped by my favorite ski shop today (Backcountry Essentials in Bellingham) and tried on a Hawx Ultra XTD in a 27.5 shell and ended up putting in an order for the Boa version. They are not stocking the boa version this year so I guess I’m their guinea pig. I also ordered Backland XTDs in 27.5. I’ll sell my original pair of Hawx and a few pairs of Backlands to make room in the closet.

I also ordered one of the pro dual straps but in my rush (I wasn’t planning on buying boots today, just checking to see if I could even get my foot into a 27.5) I ordered the Redster version instead of the Hawx version. What’s the difference and should I call them first thing in the morning before they actually put my order into the system to try to get it switched?

I prefer the Redster spring-loaded one to the Hawx toggle one . . . the only advantage of the toggle style is you can loosen the power strap with gloves on to tour, otherwise it's kind of a pain.

[GoldenBC]

Redster (all versions) is slightly lower than Ultra/Ultra XTD. Ultra/Ultra XTD probably have the highest cuffs on the market at the moment, whereas Redster is more normal, on par with the likes of Lange, Head, Dalbello, etc.

I don't have boot near me to measure at the moment, but whenever you compare cuff heights (between any boots), you need to remove the liner and measure from the boot board. Just measuring external heights on a table doesn't give you the real picture because different boots have different stand heights due to their sole constructions. A taller looking boot might actually have a lower cuff height. So measuring from the boot board is the only real way to compare cuff height.

Thanks for the info, bummer though, as I love the height of the Hawx. Any other general comments about fit between the two? I thought I read that the redster is a higher instep than the Hawx. Otherwise is it just tighter as expected?

[onenerdykid]

Thanks for the info, bummer though, as I love the height of the Hawx. Any other general comments about fit between the two? I thought I read that the redster is a higher instep than the Hawx. Otherwise is it just tighter as expected?

Having skied an Ultra for 5 years, when I went back to a Redster CS, I didn't miss anything about the cuff height difference. The Redster cuff is so much thicker that if it were as tall as the Ultra, it would over power the shell. The cuff height and liner height of the Redster CS feel so spot on.

Re: instep height - the vertical instep height of Redster CS is lower than Ultra, but the throat opening of the shell of Redster is slightly wider than Ultra. Redster CS is basically a lower volume fit that is easier to put on. Another win.

[GoldenBC]

Awesome. Thanks again. I just re listened to the deep dive where you discuss the two.

As a 24, I find a lot of boots seem really short. Old Dobermann, Mach 1 to name a few. I’m sure it’s negligible though.

The narrow throat is probably my favourite fit element of the Hawx ultra, as it touches me in ways I’ve never been touched before… Lange RS and Mach 1 feel humongous at the throat and I can’t feel any contact there. With the stiffer redster shell, would the narrow throat just be unreasonable? I didn’t have any issue putting on the ultra.

Things to think about…

[Jason4]

The difference between Hawx and Redster versions is only the cam buckle. Hawx has a quick-release, Redster has a push-to-release. All other things are the same.

That's what I was hoping for, I'll just keep it simple and stick with the order as it is. Thanks for all the help from everyone.