The Atomic Ski Boot Thread

[scottishrider]

Been in a 27.5 Hawx Ultra 130 BOA this winter and had a good fit. Thinking of picking up some Backland Carbons for multi day touring and just wondering how the fit compares? A 27.5 Backland Carbon has a 14mm shorter sole length, is this still going to be a similar length internally or does it feel shorter?
Thanks for any input from anyone who has tried both boots.

[altacoup]

My main touring boot has been the hawk xtd ultra. I have the same size in the carbon backland, which I haven’t put much time on yet. Fit seems good but the backland has noticeably less heel retention, which I solved with old school Nordica heel cups. Other than that fit is fairly similar. Backlands have crazy amount of ROM, like as much as a pair of running shoes. I do wish the cuff was higher for ski performance, but it’s a light weight skimo boot so compromise is expected

[Dromond]

My main touring boot has been the hawk xtd ultra. I have the same size in the carbon backland, which I haven’t put much time on yet. Fit seems good but the backland has noticeably less heel retention, which I solved with old school Nordica heel cups. Other than that fit is fairly similar. Backlands have crazy amount of ROM, like as much as a pair of running shoes. I do wish the cuff was higher for ski performance, but it’s a light weight skimo boot so compromise is expected

Where did you get the Nordica heel cups?

[gregL]

Been in a 27.5 Hawx Ultra 130 BOA this winter and had a good fit. Thinking of picking up some Backland Carbons for multi day touring and just wondering how the fit compares? A 27.5 Backland Carbon has a 14mm shorter sole length, is this still going to be a similar length internally or does it feel shorter?
Thanks for any input from anyone who has tried both boots.

IME the fit isn't that similar, but it works because you don't expect the same level of downhill performance out of the two boots. My foot is quite wide, and I needed a heat mold and big punches at the fifth met heads/little toes to make the Ultra XTD Boa work. I was able (with a bit of discomfort) to ski the Backland XTD Carbon 120 out of the box (not a full day, but impressive given my wider foot measures 117mm at the met heads). Heat molding the Backland XTD Carbon and light punches at the apex of my fifth mets gave me "multi-day" comfort, but the fit will never be as precise around the ankle or midfoot as the Hawx Ultra XTD.

If you have an average or higher volume foot, the Backland XTD Carbon should be fine. If your foot is on the narrow / low volume end of the spectrum, you'll likely find it roomy.

As for internal length, I have both boots in 26.5 (foot measures 27.8 on a Brannock) and they feel about the same - you can (and most manufacturers do) shorten the BSL drastically while keeping the internal length more or less the same - saves a bunch of weight.

[salx]

So is the new hawx boa shell heat moldable in an oven ? I mean, does it shape well to your foot?
the old Hawx xtd 130 conformed really well to my feet in an home oven...
couldn´t really find this answer in the thread...

[onenerdykid]

So is the new hawx boa shell heat moldable in an oven ? I mean, does it shape well to your foot?

The new/current Hawx Ultra XTD v2 is more moldable than the older v1.

[salx]

The new/current Hawx Ultra XTD v2 is more moldable than the older v1.

Perfect! Thanks


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[jj111]

Anyone have a source for acquiring Gnar Bars in the States online? Seems to be out of stock most places I look.

Just might have to make an insanely shit diy gnar bar... will send updates if I waste my time doing this

[eTrees]

Hey Matt,

Long time listener, first time caller. Huge fan.

I have some questions that are a bit different than a lot of the other questions in this thread, but I think it is still on topic.

I work in materials research, and I finally went back to school to finish up a MechE degree. I'm wondering about what the design team looks like for Atomic? How big is it, are all of the engineers located in Kaprun? I'm a big fan of CAD and FEA, so my mind is wandering towards trying to make my way into the industry. The materials research that I currently do is awesome, but its hard for a skiier to not daydream, right?

Slightly more on topic...
I spiral fractured my tib/fib this season, and I am not sure if I am going to be able to convince my surgeon to remove the screws in my ankle before this season. I have an older pair of Redsters and a newer pair of Ultra XTD 120's. If I can't get the screws removed, I plan on getting a bunch of work done on the Redsters and just skiing those this season, since I don't plan on doing any touring this coming season.
I am not very big, so I usually find myself liking 120's a bit more. Other than the general wisdom that I have looked into on removing material to reduce the flex, do you have any thoughts on making my Redsters a little more accessible for a smaller guy?

By the way... I didn't let ski patrol cut off my boots because I had just bought them last season. That's how much I love my boots! But next time, or for anyone reading this, LET THEM CUT IT OFF. Pulling off the boot was by far the most painful part of the whole process.

[onenerdykid]

Hey Matt,

Long time listener, first time caller. Huge fan.

I have some questions that are a bit different than a lot of the other questions in this thread, but I think it is still on topic.

I work in materials research, and I finally went back to school to finish up a MechE degree. I'm wondering about what the design team looks like for Atomic? How big is it, are all of the engineers located in Kaprun? I'm a big fan of CAD and FEA, so my mind is wandering towards trying to make my way into the industry. The materials research that I currently do is awesome, but its hard for a skiier to not daydream, right?

Slightly more on topic...
I spiral fractured my tib/fib this season, and I am not sure if I am going to be able to convince my surgeon to remove the screws in my ankle before this season. I have an older pair of Redsters and a newer pair of Ultra XTD 120's. If I can't get the screws removed, I plan on getting a bunch of work done on the Redsters and just skiing those this season, since I don't plan on doing any touring this coming season.
I am not very big, so I usually find myself liking 120's a bit more. Other than the general wisdom that I have looked into on removing material to reduce the flex, do you have any thoughts on making my Redsters a little more accessible for a smaller guy?

By the way... I didn't let ski patrol cut off my boots because I had just bought them last season. That's how much I love my boots! But next time, or for anyone reading this, LET THEM CUT IT OFF. Pulling off the boot was by far the most painful part of the whole process.

Right on, haha. Atomic HQ (the main ski factory, product development, marketing, warehouse, etc.) are all located on one site in Altenmarkt. (I lived in Kaprun for a few years but am now much closer to HQ). The boot development team is about 17 people, consisting of the director of the team, product management (me), designers, CAD engineers, project engineers, quality managers, liner engineers. A couple members are focused on XC boots, but I’m not involved with that side of the business. As far as Atomic’s development teams go, we are the most international, with team members from Austria, Germany, Switzerland, Canada, USA, England, Spain, Hungary, and Poland. The engineers tend to have degrees in engineering, designers have design degrees, but it’s not always a must (I have degrees in philosophy, of all things). The key is to have good experience in the trade somehow, somewhere (I come from retail/boot fitting) and be able to bring fresh ideas to the table.

In the hands of a competent boot fitter, it’s pretty easy to soften a 130 down to a 120 or even a 110. Shops that specialize in race boots/race fitting will be able to cut the shell down and/or perhaps modify the cuff a bit depending on how much needs to happen. Because this process involves removing material, they will work in small, incremental steps until they arrive at the correct flex for you. They can also reshape the plastic (either by grinding or stretching or combo of both) to address the “new” shape of your ankle. There's a lot of plastic back there, so almost any shape can be created.

Glad you still have your boots intact, but maybe its better for everyone when the boot gets cut off haha.

[rainy512day]

Right on, haha. Atomic HQ (the main ski factory, product development, marketing, warehouse, etc.) are all located on one site in Altenmarkt. (I lived in Kaprun for a few years but am now much closer to HQ). The boot development team is about 17 people, consisting of the director of the team, product management (me), designers, CAD engineers, project engineers, quality managers, liner engineers.

Hey Matt,

I see you didn’t mention the insole designer! That has to be the loneliest job in the business. Do you put them in a closet in the basement or something?

[onenerdykid]

Hey Matt,

I see you didn’t mention the insole designer! That has to be the loneliest job in the business. Do you put them in a closet in the basement or something?

Ha, luckily we have the liner engineer in charge of those as well.

[iriponsnow]

Joining the A team - thanks ONK for the advice.

[NT]

Upthread I'm seeing that the Backland XTD fit leans towards the mid volume compared to a Hawx Ultra. What about the other Backland boots? Does the Backland Carbon (or Ultimate or Pro or Expert- forgive my confusion on the plethora of models) have a similar last to the Hawx ultra? I'm looking for a replacement of my F1s (straight F1, not one of the derivatives) with something that fits closer to my Hawx Ultra XTDs but walks better than the hawx. Would like improved downhill performance over the F1s if I can get it.
Thanks in advance. Really appreciate this resource and love my Hawx boots.

[onenerdykid]

Upthread I'm seeing that the Backland XTD fit leans towards the mid volume compared to a Hawx Ultra. What about the other Backland boots? Does the Backland Carbon (or Ultimate or Pro or Expert- forgive my confusion on the plethora of models) have a similar last to the Hawx ultra? I'm looking for a replacement of my F1s (straight F1, not one of the derivatives) with something that fits closer to my Hawx Ultra XTDs but walks better than the hawx. Would like improved downhill performance over the F1s if I can get it.
Thanks in advance. Really appreciate this resource and love my Hawx boots.

Backland XTD is modeled after the Hawx Prime (MV fit). It has the same basic last parameters, cuff height, and cuff volume. It skis far better than Backland Carbon and tours far better than a Hawx XTD. However, it does not have a LV fit.

Backland (Carbon/Pro/Expert) is a lower volume 98mm last, but it lives in a lighter/less powerful category. It does not fit as tightly as Hawx Ultra does (nothing in the 1kg-ish realm will). The Backland Carbon is more analogous to the Scarpa F1 XT.

[NT]

Thanks for the quick response. If it's more comparable to the F1 XT, and I hear the XT is less powerful on the downhill than the original F1 (no tongue), then it sounds like backland carbon is not quite what I'm looking for performance wise but might fit my foot well.

[kid-kapow]

Thanks for the quick response. If it's more comparable to the F1 XT, and I hear the XT is less powerful on the downhill than the original F1 (no tongue), then it sounds like backland carbon is not quite what I'm looking for performance wise but might fit my foot well.

might I suggest Scarpa Quattro XTs? They do not walk as well as the aforementioned Backland XTDs, but they ski amazingly well, have a ton of nice features and are true low volume boots. I use Hawx XTDs as my burly touring/ 50/50 / often in the resort boot, and the Scarpas compliment them really well. Sure, they've had some issues in the first batches, but oh well - new boots under warrenty is usually a good thing in my book.

I just ordered some Hawx 130 RS that will be interesting to try. I kinda want to have an alternative to the XTDs for pure resort days with little to no sidecountry missions in order to not abuse them overly much. The XTDs are truly excellent though, so it might be a bit of a constructed need.

[NT]

Cheers for the suggestion. My instep height doesn't seem to work with the low instep height of the Quattros, (didn't investigate if it would be worth it or feasible to modify to make it fit).

I picked up a lightly used pair of Hawx Ultra 130 professional shells at the end of last season (side note: I have the unused gen 1 professional liners I need to sell). Using the same zipfit GFT liner between the professional (equiv to today's RS I believe) and the XTD there is a noticeable performance improvement as expected with the full alpine boot. The professional strap is likely part of that... so I just picked up another pair of those straps for the XTDs and am eager to see how that feels. That said I'm still very psyched on how well the XTDs ski just not a fan of touring in them very far- my toes get smashed (still working on this) and the range of motion just isn't the same as the F1s. I may just get a new liner for my packed out F1s and see if I can improve the play in the cuff pivots. Stuffing the GFT into the F1 didn't feel like it worked very well.

[kid-kapow]

yeah, modifying the Qs is pretty much a non-starter, unless you are in the half size where you can remove the plastic taped spacer underneath the liner to free up a bit of room. The shell does not seem like a good candidate for shell work wrt your requirements.

I use the professional straps on the XTDs, and I have a second pair that will go on the regular hawxs. They actually work really well with the XTDs - they did not with Lange XT3s I tried to run them with before. I am not sure if their current version is the best take on such a design though.

I might pick up some professional liners at some point as well. The mimics work really well, but we'll see how they'll hold up after a lot of use (wrt becoming more roomy).

[ezramec]

Anyone know if the Gnar Bars are in stock anywhere? I've got some XTDs and realistically I don't have any backcountry trips in my future. They're 120 flex, and 130 boots are probably in my future but I'd love to try this before buying new boots.

[iriponsnow]

Anyone know if the Gnar Bars are in stock anywhere? I've got some XTDs and realistically I don't have any backcountry trips in my future. They're 120 flex, and 130 boots are probably in my future but I'd love to try this before buying new boots.

Boot Pro in Ludlow had some on the wall.

[ezramec]

Good looks, thanks

[NT]

The Gnar Bar is a way to turn your new 23/24 Hawx Ultra XTD or existing Prime XTD into a truly fixed-cuff boot with tech inserts. We really went to town on our new ski/walk mechanism for the Hawx XTD series and eliminated as much play as we could, but there is still a minute, little bit - it's just the nature of ski/walk mechanisms and they all have it. This is ultimately why fixed cuff boots with tech inserts exist. So, if you really want to eek that last 1% of downhill performance from your Hawx XTD boot, then you take off the stock ski/walk mechanism and slap on the Gnar Bar, which fully locks the cuff to the shell, no play whatsoever. And when you want to go on longer tours, just unscrew it and put the ski/walk mechanism back on.

Confirming that the gnar bar will not work on a 2022 hawx ultra xtd?

[onenerdykid]

Confirming that the gnar bar will not work on a 2022 hawx ultra xtd?

That is correct. Needs to be the current generation of boot.

[NT]

Thanks