Hey, where’s ****?

[Danno]

Sweeper is a nice concept for a tight group, but doesn't always work in practice. What about the people who are late to the trailhead, not everyone always makes the meeting time? Does the sweeper have to wait in the parking lot for them? If the latecomers are the sweeper, which is often how it works in practice, who sweeps them? On my trips, if someone is known to be new they are treated much differently, and if you bring someone into the group who is new, you have responsibility for them. And sure, I would never let someone lag behind if I didn't have confidence in them and their ability. But treating 16 responsible experienced adults like a cohesive group that will allow itself to be herded just doesn't match my experience.

And Betty Bear sucks as a hut anyway.

[da klixter]

Great point, Danno. I seldom ride or ski with groups larger than 4 o 5. I'm old and do not suffer fools. I have swept on large dirtbike rides (30 - 40 riders) and there would be 3 or 4 alternating "sweepers" in a small pack at the back, often the better riders. The ride itself was not nearly as enjoyable as the week of recon before the ride - that was usually ADVENTURE ! I can't imagine going to a hut with 16 of my closest friends - probably like skiing Baldy during Christmas week.

CK

[old goat]

The worst part is she was only about 1.5 miles from the hut and had just finished the steepest part of the route.


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Sounds like if her "friends" had stayed with her they could have told her that, encouraged her, carried her pack, gotten her to the hut, and saved everyone a lot of trouble and misery.

An early American K2 expedition. One of the members was disabled (blood clots, pulmonary edema, I don't recall exactly), unable to stand or walk, and was being very slowly roped down in a storm. The group spent the night in a crevasse, no tents or sleeping bags. In the morning the victim was gone, having cut himself loose and taken the quick way down to save his friends, who would have otherwise died trying to save him.

A group of American tourists in Iceland. One of the group was missing. A huge search party was organized and searched for several hours until they realized that the person they were looking for was party of the search party. She had changed her jacket, was alone on the trip, and no one had recognized her.

[Meadow Skipper]

Sweeper is a nice concept for a tight group, but doesn't always work in practice. What about the people who are late to the trailhead, not everyone always makes the meeting time? Does the sweeper have to wait in the parking lot for them? If the latecomers are the sweeper, which is often how it works in practice, who sweeps them? On my trips, if someone is known to be new they are treated much differently, and if you bring someone into the group who is new, you have responsibility for them. And sure, I would never let someone lag behind if I didn't have confidence in them and their ability. But treating 16 responsible experienced adults like a cohesive group that will allow itself to be herded just doesn't match my experience.

And Betty Bear sucks as a hut anyway.

You know, don’t overthink this. IME it doesn’t take much to organize a group, even a large one - a quick talk at the trailhead, maybe set a buddy system, clearly assign a competent, trusted person as sweep that everyone knows and understands their role. If people are late, fuck them.

Or if that’s too much then…things turn out just like in my OP, which probably ruined the trip.

Edit: and if people won’t cooperate, fuck them too.

[da klixter]

Old guys think alike ...

CK

[powdork]

People can have bad days. Or just be grossly misinformed about the effort needed. But it's still a tough bridge for me to cross to justify leaving someone if and when you've committed to them in your party. Assuming that was the arrangement of course

This. And she may have realized her friends were assholes and decided she didn't want to be stuck in a hut with them.

[Toadman]

Where would SAR be without stupid people doing stupid shit.

[SumJongGuy]

How much was she carrying? Said she had food and frozen water.. Any posse has to be prepared to carry someone else's shit or even them/drag them. What if someone actually got hurt, tore something, couldn't stand on two legs anymore? At the very least the other folks dibby up the tired or injured person's pack gear and carry it for them.

Nope! Fuck it! We're outta here.. Good luck.

[ASmileyFace]

I've been the person left behind before and it was mostly my own fault.

Early in college a bunch of friends rented a hut for a birthday. It was a 3ish mile walk on a mostly flat road in an area I had never visited before. The car I was in showed up was a few hours late with everyone in different states of drunk/high. All the folks I was with had rented snowshoes to walk the road, so I told them to go ahead while I messed with my new bc set up. I figured I would catch up no problem, but frame bindings, alpine boots and my level of incompetency/intoxication led to me falling way behind quickly. It got dark and all I had in my backpack was a 30 rack of beer. With no headlamp I missed the turn off so I decided to cross through some woods rather than double back to the intersection. Of course, I got very lost and fell into a creek soaking my boots. If I had an inreach at the time I would have pushed the button for sure. Instead I had to just keep pushing on in the direction I thought was correct.

Luckily my friends weren't assholes like the ones in her story. They realized that I must have gotten lost when I never caught up so they doubled back with headlamps and a big speaker making a lot of noise. I eventually found the main road and got going in the right direction just in time for my friends to find me. I arrived at the hut a few hours late, wet, cold and thoroughly humbled.

Whenever I hear about SAR calls like this I think back on my experience. If I had gotten more turned around would SAR have ever been able to find me? It's always better in situations like this to get a rescue going early. A quick rescue can turn into an epic or deadly pretty fast under the wrong circumstances.

[Danno]

Thing is, we have no idea what happened. Her party did head back out to look for her, so she wasn't completely abandoned. She may have represented that she was really experienced, she may have said "I'm good, just gonna sit here and eat a bit" and never indicated her level of exhaustion, to assume that she was abandoned and her friends are assholes is a stretch to me.

And FTR, while my groups don't have a sweep and don't function the way some of you think is a must, doesn't mean we abandon people. We have sent people down the trail to help out a struggling hiker/grab their pack, we have radios to keep in touch, we have organized a pretty big rescue, we're always aware of who isn't at the hut yet and we would never leave a newb back there. The simple fact that she was "last" doesn't mean her group is full of assholes is all I'm saying.

[Danno]

I can't imagine going to a hut with 16 of my closest friends

It's pretty much my favorite way to spend a weekend.

[old goat]

Where would SAR be without stupid people doing stupid shit.

Doing stupid shit themselves.

The one time I got left it was my fault. Climbing Pinnacle gully in Huntington Ravine, I was leading the second pitch of 60 degree ice when my crampons came off. My partner, too whom I was roped led through with no pro or anchor while I hung on my axe and ice hammer (the old Chouinard stuff). He belayed me up the rest of that pitch and the next, also 60 degrees, which I climbed with my hand tools only. When we topped out on the Alpine Garden he took off without a word. I was so exhausted from pulling myself up I fell a bunch of times getting to and down Lion's Head trail and got in at least an hour behnd him. (60 ice is probably safest climbed solo, especially when your anchor screw has dirt coming out the end, but I was glad to have the rope that time. My partner not so much.)