Return of the R/R - Heritage Lab 132 - Dedicated Thread

[upallnight]

Bases are fast. I was a bit worried as that was a great feature of 138 vs ARG. ARG slow as fuk. These are fast.

ARGs have die cut bases, right? The JJs do (I think all Armadas do but could be wrong).

Die cut bases are slow for sure — but IME that's pretty hard to notice in pow.

[wapiti hunter]

ARGs have die cut bases, right? The JJs do (I think all Armadas do but could be wrong).

Die cut bases are slow for sure — but IME that's pretty hard to notice in pow.

In pow no.

On the transfer tow, or the home run flatts, at Alta? Or the traverse out Catherine’s? It makes a difference. Total energy expended on traverses into or out of bounds is what I appreciate about the bases on the 132 and 138s. My sister use to run ARGs with die cut bases and would expend a lot of energy just trying to keep up. We switched skis. Totally was the bases…both were new skis at the time.

Had it this weekend again at my home resort. Traversing and skating out of bounds back into bounds is EASYier than 2017 117mm bibby pros due to the bases… that saying the bibbys are shot.


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[Atlas Q. Powmonger]

Initial test results indicate that these skis love 3’ of untracked in British Columbia tree / pillow lines. Who would have guessed?

[chewski]

About FKNA time! These arrived after California's insane December and january storms ended. Then i literally tried to get out and let these loose five times during our monster storms that began last Friday, but got shut down every time. The roads remained closed forever, then the wind stripped all the snow away leaving terrible conditions, then another storm rolled in Saturday that shut the mountains down completely yesterday... but today i got these out after a foot of cold (for california) fresh fell on a completely closed mountain. I got first chair at june mountain on a bluebird day with no crowds.



I am 6' and 180lbs on 190 FR132's mounted -11.5cm. There was about a foot of fresh on top of firm. It was cold and dry by California standards. I am new to R/R, so my most comparable skis are 186 volkl threes (135mm, fully rockered, straight AF with virtually no sidecut, moderately stiff, heavy, and rearward mount). In comparison, I think the volkl threes float a tiny bit better due to the big ass tips, but both of these are amazing and notably more than a billygoat or the like. The extra float allowed me to carry speed into more stashes that others couldn't reach as easily. On runouts the bases were moderately fast, but nothing notable good or bad when it comes to glide. I did point it over some hidden shark's teeth and they didn't leave a mark, so they are definitely durable. I really had to focus on long catracks back to the lift, but that's just R/R and it definitely wasn't terrifying. I never felt the need to swap out skis and skied them all day, but i chose June mountain because the powder lasts all day here if you know where to look.

I immediately found these intuitive in powder and there was very little adjustment. Compared to more conventional pow skis i did find these wanted to turn quickly enough that i had to make sure they didn't overturn on big, steep faces which there are quite a few of off of the J1 chair. I think once i figured that out these were basically tied with volkl threes at making big, fast arcing pow turns. It was hardly bottomless with about a foot of new on top of a base that actually hardened quite a lot after getting 10' throughout the previous week. I had to learn to trust these as i occasionally bounced off the hard underneath, but the weight and moderately stiff flex of the FR build allowed me to trust it quickly. The extra float was appreciated as i know i was staying off the bottom a lot more than most people.

What took me the longest to trust these skis on were windswept entrances and choppy runouts. Wind is insane in the sierras when it storms so even if it's dropped 10' in a week the top of a ridge can be hard AF. Luckily today there were only moderately firm and windstripped entrances which quickly transitioned to soft and deep again. On the choppy runouts i realized there was nothing to fear and i could continue to arc big turns or drift just like it wasn't tracked. Now today's snow was especially dry for our mountains, so it was not consolidating crud, but truly soft chop. In these conditions they rule. I will have to wait to find out how limited they are in heavy crud another day... oh well. I will add that i noticed a few areas of moderate wind and sun crust a lot less than other people. I can see how well these can do in funky layers.

Honestly today was so good on a fully rockered superfat that I can't tell you exactly what was different over a more conventional ski like a volkl three. I think i could zip through tight trees with greater ease, but I don't think the three's suck at that either. But this is something I can't overstate: they just did everything in pow that i wanted without much thought. I didn't notice them. They disappeared whenever the snow was 3d. I bought these for my upcoming first heli trip at the end of the month and was afraid i would have to bring them with no real experience on a R/R. Now i am going with full confidence and contemplating what second ski i will bring for a few resort days surrounding the heli part of my trip.

[Hopeless Sinner]

Yeah man! Waiting on my 130 brakes - can't wait to get a shot w these especially with this feedback.

[riff]

I just wanted to drop by and say these things are so much fun. Any time there’s a few inches of new snow on the surface it’s worth busting them out. Silly fun, try anything kinda skis.


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[Marshal Olson]

I just wanted to drop by and say these things are so much fun. Any time there’s a few inches of new snow on the surface it’s worth busting them out. Silly fun, try anything kinda skis.


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I'm with you man. My limiting factor for using the C132 as a touring ski is the skintrack, not the skiing.

[Norseman]

At risk of drawing some ire here, I'm gonna say... maybe they're not for me. I'm gonna ski em some more but I'm leaning toward letting them go.

Couple of factors:

1. Underfoot-only flotation is too weird for my old-school shins. I have flossed the brainstem per Shane's request, but still think I prefer the tip and tail to push back and interact more with the snow, in order to feel the length of the ski. These feel like they're 100cm long. I'll slash once in a while but prefer an arc.

2. Dense snow on the Cascade west side. These hook up across the fall line in the chowder and have demanded the insta-unweight-hop else go over the bars move. In frictionless pow and dust the huge area underfoot isn't a detriment, but in wet sticky chow and even hotpow they are hard to control when the center of friction is right at the boot and there's no edge to distribute pressure.

[Marshal Olson]

Interesting feedback. Thank you for sharing.
Could you remind me of your mount position?

[Norseman]

about -10.5cm from center

[Norseman]

And I don't want to sound like a negative bitch. These are great in dry snow but that's not what I usually find.

[Norseman]

Also, what's this?

[Marshal Olson]

Also, what's this?

Just to be certain, is that a ski binding drill hole? The hole looks different than what I am used to & don't want to answer with the wrong info!

Assuming it is, and the thin white line is what you are referencing, it is likely the flax vertical reinforcements between the layers of Pawlownia in the core. Additionally, the core blank is milled for a hardwood insert for the binding area (under the binding plate) so you are not drilling into softer woods inadvertently.

Hoping this answers! LMK if not.

[Marshal Olson]

And I don't want to sound like a negative bitch. These are great in dry snow but that's not what I usually find.

All good! This is the place to (try) and get gear to work right for folks!

Sort of a random q, but are you running the stock (cold temp) wax? How many days so far (skied off)? Since you mention friction and warmer pow, I am wondering about a change of wax. Generally a R/R should slay that snow IME...!

I am also curious about ski weight. The C132 is light, the FR132 is heavy. The FR132 absolutely destroys setup snow in a way lighter skis cannot. Could be a fun experiment to try my personal FR132 as well.

But if it's not a fit, it's not a fit & more than happy to sort something out, no worries.

[SkiLyft]

Another data point:

Skied them all day in a Pineapple Express yesterday at Schweitzer.

Conditions:
2-3” fell overnight (~30*)
Lots of wind transport through the day with 4-6” more snow that fell right at freezing level (31-32*). Suffice it to say this was HOT POW. Easily 12-14” deep in the wind loaded pockets.

Frankly this was the ski for the day:
A buddy was on his protests and the edge was hooking up and doing weird things for him. He completely detuned his entire ski to help abate the issue.

These babies water surfed their way through everything… we got into some tight chutes that were blown in with a foot of dense full bodied snow and sure I could feel the full 200cm of the ski but it was gravy.. just point shoot / slarve / shoot some more rally out the slough to the end.

Notably, I did have an issue 2 weeks ago (they were pivoting vs arcing a 30-40m turn) after taking to Marshall he thought I was over driving the ski. So yesterday I just kept myself neutral/upright and just used a two footed stance and by golly they started to arc larger radius turns without pivoting so easy.

These things are face shot machines; I was getting full face shots of wet heavy pow yesterday in a way I haven’t since riding a snowboard.

I’ll continue to report back; the more you ski these… the more you begin to unlock. While not hard to ski, they take some time to master.



Kopi skiing the hot pow



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[Marshal Olson]

Notably, I did have an issue 2 weeks ago (they were pivoting vs arcing a 30-40m turn) after taking to Marshall he thought I was over driving the ski. So yesterday I just kept myself neutral/upright and just used a two footed stance and by golly they started to arc larger radius turns without pivoting so easy.

Glad to hear that worked! To share for the rest of the thread, I find "a nice and tall" stance really opens up the turn. A "low and athletic" stance drives the skis and closes the turn.

I ride mine more like a mountain bike -- less of a static stance and more dynamic -- as opposed to, say the FL skis which like a compact stance. Two quick turns (low hips) through some woods, slash a big sweeping turn (extended downhill leg, compact inside leg) off a feature, then rally big turns out the apron (nice and tall).

[riff]

I’ll agree with several points here- I haven’t yet got much time on hotter pow, so no ability to compare with Norseman.
I have really felt the benefits of standing up and going for neutral weight on the feet; I’ve had a few days on other skis that have reminded me that the 132’s require very little force to get results. I find them amazing with 1100 gram boots. I had pondered getting stouter touring boots this year for many reasons, but the 132 doesn’t require big boots at all on appropriate days.

A few times I’ve wheelied out of landings, and I’m realizing there’s a personal habit there to keep tips up and ski away; completely unnecessary on these. Land neutral and count on the float. No speed is lost by sinking super deep.
I’m a little concerned that I might lose skills for driving other skis….
To use the mtb analogy, feels like a cushy bounce bike vs a hardtail; it does lots of the work for you.

I even got 130 ski crampons; in WA a crust at the low end of the climb is not unusual, but the skis are worth taking higher on mixed quality days for the mank performance.


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[HAB]

At risk of drawing some ire here, I'm gonna say... maybe they're not for me. I'm gonna ski em some more but I'm leaning toward letting them go.

Couple of factors:

1. Underfoot-only flotation is too weird for my old-school shins. I have flossed the brainstem per Shane's request, but still think I prefer the tip and tail to push back and interact more with the snow, in order to feel the length of the ski. These feel like they're 100cm long. I'll slash once in a while but prefer an arc.

2. Dense snow on the Cascade west side. These hook up across the fall line in the chowder and have demanded the insta-unweight-hop else go over the bars move. In frictionless pow and dust the huge area underfoot isn't a detriment, but in wet sticky chow and even hotpow they are hard to control when the center of friction is right at the boot and there's no edge to distribute pressure.

I'm interested and local if you decide to cut them loose.

[SkiLyft]

I’m a little concerned that I might lose skills for driving other skis….

Haha, yes, I had similar thoughts skied my SGs last Friday and Saturday just to test the theory. Turns out; driving a big traditional pow stick is fun. Just different. I think the c132 will find its niche.


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[Seeburglar]

Hey Marshal, I know this isn't quite the right thread, but I was hoping to get your help on ski designs. I'm trying to make my own pair of fatty pow skis, roughly based on the 132 and the protests.
I was hoping to get your thoughts on Tip/tail fill. Do you run tip and tail fill in the 132? If so, roughly how long? Seems like everything on ski builder forum is based on traditional ski design, where you use tip fill past the contact point. With a contact point 500mm behind the tip, that doesn't seem like a great idea.

Any help would be hugely appreciated!

[Marshal Olson]

It would depend on how deep you are running a reverse sidecut, but I use really short (10cm) tip fill on the 132, since the ski is so rockered and tapered (narrow) in tip.

[arild]

Hey Marshal, I know this isn't quite the right thread, but I was hoping to get your help on ski designs. I'm trying to make my own pair of fatty pow skis, roughly based on the 132 and the protests.
I was hoping to get your thoughts on Tip/tail fill. Do you run tip and tail fill in the 132? If so, roughly how long? Seems like everything on ski builder forum is based on traditional ski design, where you use tip fill past the contact point. With a contact point 500mm behind the tip, that doesn't seem like a great idea.

Any help would be hugely appreciated!

Awesome project is awesome. Best of luck!

support the raddest project going: http://heritagelabskis.com

[chewski]

Last week i took the trip of a lifetime (for me) and did 4 days of heli skiing in BC just outside of golden. I went out on a limb and took the FR132 after previously only getting one full day on them and having no previous R/R experience. As a backup I brought my trusty 189 pre-asym BG's that i know like the back of my hand. There was no significant snowfall for 2 weeks leading up to my trip, so I was understandably a bit apprehensive about using this ski and heli skiing in general. Thankfully the heli operation did an amazing job of getting to the goods despite the lack of new snow and warming spring temperatures. For the most part, other than the occasional sun crust every few runs, i was amazed at the amount of soft, dry powder we were able to ski over 4 days. Conditions were mostly binding to boot top, cold and dry with the aforementioned crusts thrown in every couple of runs. Most of my commentary about this ski probably has more to do with someone coming from more conventional pow skis (volkl 3's and on3p bg's) switching to R/R than the actual FR132 itself.

My first day we easily encountered the grabbiest, crustiest snow of the four days. Honestly, i felt the grabby snow and crust more than i was expecting having heard people wax poetic about R/R handling funky snow just like it was pure pow. It was still enjoyable and relatively easy skiing in crusts, but i guess i was expecting to barely feel it at all. For reference, everyone else was on ~108-116mm mustache rockered skis, and one of my buddies on an m-free 108 was really on the struggle bus that first day. I figured the slight catchiness i was feeling was actually quite bad for others on conventional pow skis. But obviously heli skiing for the first time the stoke was still very high.

The next three days had far better snow overall, but always with the lurking crust every so often. I really found these good in tight areas as we would drop back into the tree line. On 5-10' drops and taking pillows these were so effortless and the landing platform they provide is just awesome. In deeper pow, i still need to get used to the feeling of float coming from underfoot rather than the tip (the volk 3's with their giant tips still float better), but if you trust it the float is always there. Because of this lack of push back/resistance from the tip, the stance required seems to be mostly upright with light shin pressure at all times. Because of the smaller tips, super forward pressure would cause the ski to overturn if going really fast on steep faces. Because of the rearward mount (I went with -11.5cm), letting off the shins would result in a lack of control. So adapting to this hybrid neutral/forward stance took some getting used to on my part, but worked really well when i stuck to it.

On day three I switched to my BG's just so i could benchmark the difference R/R was really having on my experience. I still had a blast on BG's, but I confirmed my suspicion that the R/R definitely mitigated the affects of crusts and grabby snow I had encountered on day one. The funky snow was easily more perceptible on the BG's, and they are no slouches in grabby snow themselves. In pure pow, i honestly had just as much fun on the BG's with their smaller waist, but more tip-biased float (which i still prefer overall). The thing that stood out most (other than crust performance) was how perfectly balanced I needed to be on the FR 132 to make BIG and FAST turns than on my other pow skis. The FR 132 does quick turns well, but to do long, sweeping turns it felt like you need to apply steering AND counter steering simultaneously (like controlling fishtailing in a car). This was kinda odd for me at first, but the more i focused on that upright/light shin pressure stance the more easily i could dial in my radii.

All in all, just like i said in my original review after one resort pow day, these are very intuitive in anything 3D and allow you to just hop on and ski reasonably well. The more nuanced aspects of their performance take some time and getting used to, but i think I am getting the hang of it. I had messaged Marshall right before my trip about edge tunes on R/R, and I have skied mine exclusively at his original 1* base/2* side. But he informed me that he now sends all 132's out with 1.5* base. As these definitely had advantages to conventional skis in grabby snow, but not to the MIND BLOWING levels i had mentally hyped myself up to, i will be goingto 1.5* or 2* base bevel. I definitely resisted because of my unfamiliarity with this shape of ski. However, overall build quality and durability is proving to be absolutely extraordinary. On3p is the only other manufacturer I have tried that makes skis this bomber. After my trip it was obvious to me that i needed more heli in my life moving forward, so hopefully these will be getting the nod more often.

[soul_skier]

From a week or so ago:
Alpine finally got the ridge open - first lap was feeling out the snow and scoping entrances through the cornice


After staring at this from below for the past 2 months I finally got to ski it. Getting through the cornice was terrifying but once I made the spine it was smooth sailing from then on. 132s continue to crush the conditions they are designed for, though it is worrisome to drop into a line where you know the first turn is going to be on a bed surface over exposure and you don't have much sidecut to really bite in.

[chewski]

From a week or so ago:
Alpine finally got the ridge open - first lap was feeling out the snow and scoping entrances through the cornice


After staring at this from below for the past 2 months I finally got to ski it. Getting through cornice was terrifying but once I made the spine it was smooth sailing from then on. 132s continue to crush it the conditions they are designed for, though it is worrisome to drop into a line where you know the first turn is going to be on a bed surface over exposure and you don't have much sidecut to really bite in.

Sweet jebus!