Hurricane 2022

[Bunion 2020]

Well I guess its clear who won't be the next POTUS.

[SumJongGuy]

I can’t read the article, but:

Attachment 427998

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/29/c...insurance.html

No worries, our tax dollars will go through FEMA National Flood Insurance to make tons of repairs (AKA UPGRADES) to places like Mar a Lago... and the contractors who do the work will get stiffed.

[warthog]

Almost no one in FL has replaced their own roof in the last 5 to 10 years because the cost of denying a claim became astronomical. If a jury decides against the insurance co that the roof was damaged by a covered peril they pay end up paying close to $1,000,000 to the defense and plaintiffs attorneys and adjusters that handled the claim. Even if they win they are out $100,000’s. All over a $20k roof. So they just replace them.


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This is only partly true. If you can prove any sort of damage they were replacing. Lots of shenanigans with that rule, so the ins. companies started requiring full roof replacement if roof has 5 years or less to go. They can refuse to insure if you don't replace the roof, so they did pay to replace a lot of them, but they have made up for it in the past 5 years or so.

As for Charlie wrecking most of this, that is fairly untrue. I was down there a week after Charlie. Ft Myers was relatively OK. Charlie was a fast moving small storm. It wrecked Punta Gorda, but it literally hit in the best spot between Sarasota and Ft Myers. Punta Gorda and Port Charlotte are relatively small population areas.

[neufox47]

This is only partly true. If you can prove any sort of damage they were replacing. Lots of shenanigans with that rule, so the ins. companies started requiring full roof replacement if roof has 5 years or less to go. They can refuse to insure if you don't replace the roof, so they did pay to replace a lot of them, but they have made up for it in the past 5 years or so.

Yes a lot of carriers require the roof to be less than 20 or even 10 years old as a result. But they definitely haven’t made up for it in the last 5 years. Losses were bigger than ever the last two years despite no major hurricanes.

Regarding Charlie, yes far more is damaged this time around but almost anything damaged by Charlie is now damaged again.

[bodywhomper]

Isn’t there an attitude that if the loss to individual property owners is so high due to damage not covered by insurance (eg flood), then the fed gov will step in and cover? I know that’s still a general attitude about EQ in the vulnerable areas of California.

I expect a lot of politicking to occur. New exemptions for rebuilding will be made to ensure politicians don’t loose too many constituents.

[Buster Highmen]

Massive bummer for all the property owners from Naples through Ft. Myers, but when I'd pass through, I was amazed at the number of homeless in Ft. Myers out by the freeway.
I imagine lots of life loss in those communities.

[KQ]

that's a lot of utility trucks:




Utility company trucks are staged at The Villages in Sumter County, Fla., waiting for the storm to pass so crews can fan out to begin restoring services.(Stephen M. Dowell/Orlando Sentinel)

[Buster Highmen]

[boltonoutlaw]

that's a lot of utility trucks:




Utility company trucks are staged at The Villages in Sumter County, Fla., waiting for the storm to pass so crews can fan out to begin restoring services.(Stephen M. Dowell/Orlando Sentinel)

My Dad made a nice living selling these in fleets to utility companies from Maine to the Carolinas, but when the handshake era gave way to faceless emails, he bailed out and played a lot of golf, right there in Ft. Myers. RIP

[Not DJSapp]

Florida reporter protects mic with condom during hurricane broadcast.

Practice safe reporting.

https://www.al.com/life/2022/09/flor...medium=twitter

[highangle]

Most of this shit got destroyed by Charlie less than 20 years ago. Thanks to government subsidized insurance and regular insurance it was all rebuilt and development sky rocketed. Now we repeat.

Also, there are going to be LOTS of insurance co bankruptcies in FL. The taxpayer funded backstops will be heavily tested and I wouldn’t be surprised if Florida looks for a Federal bailout of their fund that pays claims after carriers are insolvent. All this was caused by absolutely ridiculous laws that allowed rampant fraud and litigation that robbed insurance carriers blind. Almost no one in FL has replaced their own roof in the last 5 to 10 years because the cost of denying a claim became astronomical. If a jury decides against the insurance co that the roof was damaged by a covered peril they pay end up paying close to $1,000,000 to the defense and plaintiffs attorneys and adjusters that handled the claim. Even if they win they are out $100,000’s. All over a $20k roof. So they just replace them.


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Carriers are insured by reinsurers [like Berkshire Hathaway or SwissRe]. Does Florida have such weak reinsurance requirements that the carriers in the state can't cover their underwritten risks in a 100-year storm?

[paulster2626]

Always amuses me how an entire structure can get wiped out, but there always seems to be that one small piece of it that is somehow left standing - like that little chunk of railing or whatever it is.

[highangle]

Always amuses me how an entire structure can get wiped out, but there always seems to be that one small piece of it that is somehow left standing - like that little chunk of railing or whatever it is.

Heybro if upper bound structural loads are amusing to you, I know where you can make really good $$ and every day will be like Six Flags!

[schuss]

Carriers are insured by reinsurers [like Berkshire Hathaway or SwissRe]. Does Florida have such weak reinsurance requirements that the carriers in the state can't cover their underwritten risks in a 100-year storm?

Five Florida insurers went insolvent already this year because of the rampant fraud driving up costs. I expect a bunch will just pull out entirely after this event.

[Dantheman]

My Dad made a nice living selling these in fleets to utility companies from Maine to the Carolinas, but when the handshake era gave way to faceless emails, he bailed out and played a lot of golf, right there in Ft. Myers. RIP

I used to do consulting work for a Florida utility line company that was formerly a mining company with a bunch of legacy properties in the West. We regularly joked that switching from mining to utility lines in FL was a hell of a business decision. Running utility lines is way easier than mining, and with hurricanes and tornados knocking a bunch of them down every year you'll never run out of work.

[SumJongGuy]

I used to do consulting work for a Florida utility line company that was formerly a mining company with a bunch of legacy properties in the West. We regularly joked that switching from mining to utility lines in FL was a hell of a business decision. Running utility lines is way easier than mining, and with hurricanes and tornados knocking a bunch of them down every year you'll never run out of work.

When I lived in Long Island there was talk about every other year about a massive project to move all the power lines underground. It wasn't the property owners or the government, or even the utility company LILCO that always shut it down.. It was the UNION who counted on all that overtime every time a storm wrecks everything there who shut that idea down..

[AK47bp]

That looks like the exact spot a couple idiots were swimming last night. CNN kept showing as a background clip.

https://twitter.com/ZachCoveyTV/stat...0%2Fframe.html

Wonder if they survived.


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[boltonoutlaw]

I used to do consulting work for a Florida utility line company that was formerly a mining company with a bunch of legacy properties in the West. We regularly joked that switching from mining to utility lines in FL was a hell of a business decision. Running utility lines is way easier than mining, and with hurricanes and tornados knocking a bunch of them down every year you'll never run out of work.

This ^

I lived in Nantucket when the town undertook the project to dismantle all the telephone and utility poles in the Historic District and bury that infrastructure underground. This was the very early '80's, and the decision was driven by aesthetics.

Now, I have never understood why the municipalities and governments that create and grant easements for private utility firms do not force the utilities to do this wherever practical. It seems that the mighty USA is reduced to 3rd World status for a few weeks every year, causing billions in losses to the economy simply because trees fall on power lines. Why are utility companies allowed to rely on this 19th century technology (stringing power lines in the air on sticks) when it is so clearly archaic? If I were king they would all be trenching like madmen

[Dantheman]

Storm surge timelapse: https://twitter.com/WxBrenn/status/1575253395304288271

[mud]

Always amuses me how an entire structure can get wiped out, but there always seems to be that one small piece of it that is somehow left standing - like that little chunk of railing or whatever it is.

With some construction down here that was the 15 minutes the guy wasn't drunk or meth'ed up when doing the installation.

[Not DJSapp]

This ^

I lived in Nantucket when the town undertook the project to dismantle all the telephone and utility poles in the Historic District and bury that infrastructure underground. This was the very early '80's, and the decision was driven by aesthetics.

Now, I have never understood why the municipalities and governments that create and grant easements for private utility firms do not force the utilities to do this wherever practical. It seems that the mighty USA is reduced to 3rd World status for a few weeks every year, causing billions in losses to the economy simply because trees fall on power lines. Why are utility companies allowed to rely on this 19th century technology (stringing power lines in the air on sticks) when it is so clearly archaic? If I were king they would all be trenching like madmen

$/foot my friend. Underground utility work is a difficult thing to do, and even that isn't foolproof. Tree roots can break buried conduits too. Power transmission lines generate heat that must be dissipated as well, and soils doesn't do that very well. L.A. has a couple large underground transmission lines that are oil cooled, and they're a nightmare to operate, maintain and work near.

[oldnew_guy]

This ^

I lived in Nantucket when the town undertook the project to dismantle all the telephone and utility poles in the Historic District and bury that infrastructure underground. This was the very early '80's, and the decision was driven by aesthetics.

Now, I have never understood why the municipalities and governments that create and grant easements for private utility firms do not force the utilities to do this wherever practical. It seems that the mighty USA is reduced to 3rd World status for a few weeks every year, causing billions in losses to the economy simply because trees fall on power lines. Why are utility companies allowed to rely on this 19th century technology (stringing power lines in the air on sticks) when it is so clearly archaic? If I were king they would all be trenching like madmen

Storm surge and sea water corrosion can do a number on utilities. See Hurricane Sandy for some mind boggling numbers.

[highangle]

Five Florida insurers went insolvent already this year because of the rampant fraud driving up costs. I expect a bunch will just pull out entirely after this event.

Most of the time, a carrier can see that coming and pull out of a state before it loses its ass?
My homeowner's policies renew every year and my property & casualty every 6mo. And it's not terribly unusual for carriers to drop states when laws change and they can't make enough $$.

But business is hard sometimes and companies make mistakes and blame it on "new torts" or whatever. Is this Florida thing based on a new law or tort environment? Or is this the same longstanding problem insurance companies have with rural juries in the South assigning exorbitant damages?

[highangle]

$/foot my friend. Underground utility work is a difficult thing to do, and even that isn't foolproof. Tree roots can break buried conduits too. Power transmission lines generate heat that must be dissipated as well, and soils doesn't do that very well. L.A. has a couple large underground transmission lines that are oil cooled, and they're a nightmare to operate, maintain and work near.

Storm surge and sea water corrosion can do a number on utilities. See Hurricane Sandy for some mind boggling numbers.

There's also centuries of shit underground and existing shit above ground that has to be accounted for before you can figure out how much it's gonna cost to bury a new utility.

And don't think "Call Before You Dig" ppl have things easy either. Space is curved by mass. That means if you go in a straight line more than 10-12 miles, there's enough curvature to introduce noticeable error in any 2d map or especially plane coordinate system you'd use to locate all your utilities in a computer.

Not an issue on your 1/8ac lot, but a big hairy damn deal for One Call, Entergy, PG&E, the County...They have to accurately model local spacetime and gravity and correct for it if they want to reliably know where all their shit is, or else hire thousands and thousands of people with detectors and paint cans who drive out every time someone calls before they dig.

[ötzi]

$/foot my friend.

If installation costs are the only metric of course poles are cheaper.