Water.....

[Not DJSapp]

One crazy thing about it is that they were / are worried that the reservoir could cause an earthquake of up to a 7.0 due to pressing on fault lines. Which is mostly what killed the project.

Yeah, DSOD isn't all that wild about putting up large dams across fault lines, especially when it would wipe out Folsom Lake and then Sacramento if it failed.

[schuss]

Sure, while I go take a long shower while washing clothes and watering my lawn and washing my car. because we have plenty of water here. End of the day we need to figure out how to get excess water to places a thousand plus miles away that are in deep fucking trouble. Either that or you'll have to fucking move where the fucking water is amirite??

Time for some ridiculous out of the box ideas that will probably never work. Like I said, if you don't start digging somewhere you'll still never have any more water. .. and the fire seasons are also getting worse..

Or, you know, they could try real water conservation. If agriculture wasn't so wasteful with water and had to pay the same rates for it that others do, it would get figured out quick.

[TBS]

Tommy’s comments are laughable. But I did find a 1950’s era report about the marysville dam a few years ago, ~11,000 long dam crest of the lower Yuba river. Yeah right! Also, remove the listing status of all federally listed salmonids in California except for those in the Eel River watershed.

Bolded for emphasis
In light of current dam removals on the lower Klamath to protect fish habitat at the (huge) expense of agriculture in So OR, McClintock’s proposal has zero chance of success. It’s nothing but performance art.

[Not DJSapp]

If agriculture wasn't simply the international export of federally subsidized water for profit by massive agribusiness corporations it would get figured out quick.

Call it what it is. Our perpetual water crisis is a byproduct of industry, not population. If we banned all international exports of crops grown West of the continental divide, water in the Western US would be solved overnight. Instead we have chosen to walk a line between a dust bowl, environmental catastrophe, and maximum profits, because CAPITALISM demands we find a way to maximize use of our resources.

As with all things, follow the money. Ag consumes the most water. Ag pays the least for the water. Ag ships the product overseas to maximize profits. Ag is shipping our water abroad for $, and we're all paying for it. But Ag is politically tough to attack as people don't understand how global Ag has truly become, and the idea that we're not going to grow as much food terrifies people. The "Food Grows Where Water Flows" slogan is quite powerful, as it silently implies that we're all going to starve if we don't give ag every last drop. What it doesn't state is that the massive excess of food we're growing is being shipped across the Pacific, and we'd be just fine if we dialed it back a few notches.

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

And as soon as big Ag thinks their water is going to get restricted or more expensive, they trot out a full force media blitz featuring mom and pa farmers and how their livelihood and the American way are threatened.

https://www.thepacker.com/news/socia...family-farmers

They'll never show the Driscoll or Dole executives flying corporate jets in and out of Watsonville.

[Danno]

Sure, while I go take a long shower while washing clothes and watering my lawn and washing my car. because we have plenty of water here. End of the day we need to figure out how to get excess water to places a thousand plus miles away that are in deep fucking trouble. Either that or you'll have to fucking move where the fucking water is amirite??

Time for some ridiculous out of the box ideas that will probably never work. Like I said, if you don't start digging somewhere you'll still never have any more water. .. and the fire seasons are also getting worse..

Good thing you're on the case then! Forget whatever the fuck the engineers and politicians working on western water issues for the last many decades think, SumJongGuy's the dude with the ideas that matter.

[skaredshtles]

Good thing you're on the case then! Forget whatever the fuck the engineers and politicians working on western water issues for the last many decades think, SumJongGuy's the dude with the ideas that matter.

Well... he's dOnE HiS OwN ReSeArCh!

[SumJongGuy]

Well... he's dOnE HiS OwN ReSeArCh!

Nope. Hot takes from the ass.. Deal with it..

[TBS]

Well... he's dOnE HiS OwN ReSeArCh!

Sum Jong Guy knows so little about so much
Guy needs to heed Abe Lincoln - Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak/type and remove all doubt

[dunfree]

Call it what it is. Our perpetual water crisis is a byproduct of industry, not population. If we banned all international exports of crops grown West of the continental divide, water in the Western US would be solved overnight. Instead we have chosen to walk a line between a dust bowl, environmental catastrophe, and maximum profits, because CAPITALISM demands we find a way to maximize use of our resources.

As with all things, follow the money. Ag consumes the most water. Ag pays the least for the water. Ag ships the product overseas to maximize profits. Ag is shipping our water abroad for $, and we're all paying for it. But Ag is politically tough to attack as people don't understand how global Ag has truly become, and the idea that we're not going to grow as much food terrifies people. The "Food Grows Where Water Flows" slogan is quite powerful, as it silently implies that we're all going to starve if we don't give ag every last drop. What it doesn't state is that the massive excess of food we're growing is being shipped across the Pacific, and we'd be just fine if we dialed it back a few notches.

California Ag has been global for 150 years, since wheat replaced gold as the most valuable export. The crops have changed, the destinations (nuts to Asia, not wheat to England) but it’s been a state of big ag for a very long time, and people have trouble facing that.

[Not DJSapp]

California Ag has been global for 150 years, since wheat replaced gold as the most valuable export. The crops have changed, the destinations (nuts to Asia, not wheat to England) but it’s been a state of big ag for a very long time, and people have trouble facing that.

Totally agree, but the Ag industry has changed massively over the last 30 years with the death of the family farm and large scale agri-business taking its place. Fields are far more productive and growing season is longer than ever since plants can start sooner and harvest comes in faster.

[gravitylover]

If we reduced shipping food elsewhere would that mean other countries would reduce shipping foodstuffs here? That would be a clusterfuk.

[Not DJSapp]

If we reduced shipping food elsewhere would that mean other countries would reduce shipping foodstuffs here? That would be a clusterfuk.

The idea that you can get any fresh fruit or veggie 365 days a year is a new concept. Like within the last 30 years new.

[gravitylover]

I'm a fan. Actually I'd prefer if we could get our shit together and have greenhouse farms so we can reduce the damage that global shipping does.

[schuss]

Call it what it is. Our perpetual water crisis is a byproduct of industry, not population. If we banned all international exports of crops grown West of the continental divide, water in the Western US would be solved overnight. Instead we have chosen to walk a line between a dust bowl, environmental catastrophe, and maximum profits, because CAPITALISM demands we find a way to maximize use of our resources.

As with all things, follow the money. Ag consumes the most water. Ag pays the least for the water. Ag ships the product overseas to maximize profits. Ag is shipping our water abroad for $, and we're all paying for it. But Ag is politically tough to attack as people don't understand how global Ag has truly become, and the idea that we're not going to grow as much food terrifies people. The "Food Grows Where Water Flows" slogan is quite powerful, as it silently implies that we're all going to starve if we don't give ag every last drop. What it doesn't state is that the massive excess of food we're growing is being shipped across the Pacific, and we'd be just fine if we dialed it back a few notches.

I agree. Though if they can figure out how to do it with next to no water - sure, whatever, just don't kill the topsoil.

[TBS]

^^^Theres lots of people out there trying to commercialize this concept with vertical indoor farming. Water use drops significantly. Biggest opportunity is for grocery chains to locate greenhouses around a cluster of stores.

Biggest challenge is finding people who know how to grow food indoors at scale to make it profitable.

It also takes enormous capital investment in buildings, lighting, hvac and control systems. Just think of the space required to grow what, 50lb per day of every lettuce sku in the store. And mature on a continuous schedule, not 1 ton today and nothing for the next month

[PB]

Lettuce is a garnish, get back to me when we start growing grain, tubers, and legumes vertically.

[ötzi]

^^^Theres lots of people out there trying to commercialize this concept with vertical indoor farming. Water use drops significantly. Biggest opportunity is for grocery chains to locate greenhouses around a cluster of stores.

Biggest challenge is finding people who know how to grow food indoors at scale to make it profitable.

It also takes enormous capital investment in buildings, lighting, hvac and control systems. Just think of the space required to grow what, 50lb per day of every lettuce sku in the store. And mature on a continuous schedule, not 1 ton today and nothing for the next month

It's a science. Never mind the agricultural side, even finding the right place to do it is a science. There's a ton of variables including cost of power, water, land, labor and on and on. Some people are making money at it but it's not easy and it's hard to scale.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

The idea that you can get any fresh fruit or veggie 365 days a year is a new concept. Like within the last 30 years new.

People are so stupid thinking tomatoes are normal in the market other than a 6-8 week period in the summer. Lettuce? For fucks sake that’s the same for spring. It’s not natural


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[ötzi]

Lettuce is a garnish, get back to me when we start growing grain, tubers, and legumes vertically.

That'll be probably never. But broccoli, green beans, kale, brussels sprouts (and others I can't think of right now) are good candidates. Fresh herbs for sure.

[BmillsSkier]

Smithsonian Channel has a great series on the Great Lakes on tonight while I wrap up some work and wait for the Aussie Open coverage to start. I'm obviously very biased to the region, but they, and their inhabitants, are just so damned gorgeous and fascinating. 1/4 of the world's fresh water.

Hands off.

[schuss]

^^^Theres lots of people out there trying to commercialize this concept with vertical indoor farming. Water use drops significantly. Biggest opportunity is for grocery chains to locate greenhouses around a cluster of stores.

Biggest challenge is finding people who know how to grow food indoors at scale to make it profitable.

It also takes enormous capital investment in buildings, lighting, hvac and control systems. Just think of the space required to grow what, 50lb per day of every lettuce sku in the store. And mature on a continuous schedule, not 1 ton today and nothing for the next month

We already have the techniques. Israel has pioneered a number of low water usage techniques. No one in the states uses them because why would you? Water is cheap and you just whine any time the taps get restricted.
I'd bet you could reduce water usage by 50-60% without much impact other than some mild price impacts.

[SumJongGuy]

The idea that you can get any fresh fruit or veggie 365 days a year is a new concept. Like within the last 30 years new.

HIgh school bands up north had a great racket in the 70s and 80s having a truckload of oranges delivered from Florida in January and selling them as fundraisers.. because you couldn't buy them anywhere else.

As for the big picture. just because we don't have any really good cure all solution doesn't mean we should be shooting down anything less than ideal. Conservation is great, but big money wants profits. A lot of the country has more water than we need. We need to find ways to get some to areas that don't.

People have their live savings invested in areas that are dried up tinderboxes 10 months of the year now. They can't move to the water so we need to move some water to them.

[BmillsSkier]

People have their live savings invested in areas that are dried up tinderboxes 10 months of the year now. They can't move to the water so we need to move some water to them.

Wait, what?

[ötzi]

Yeah i'm not buying that. If you want to live where there's no water then live like there's no water. Rugged individualists looking for government bailouts always cracks me up.