If only there was something we could do...

[leroy jenkins]

Why don't you instead explain to us the discrepancy in the red bars of the graph you giant coward

Can you ask nicely?

[Meadow Skipper]

Why don't you instead explain to us the discrepancy in the red bars of the graph you giant coward

He doesn’t answer questions. He evades.

[bennymac]

He looks for excuses to not face reality and keep living in voluntary delusion.

It’s not the moral high ground to pretend one’s padded room behavior is beyond reproach while simultaneously championing the mindset that leads to that gun violence graph being off the charts.

[Meadow Skipper]

It’s not the moral high ground to pretend one’s padded room behavior is beyond reproach while simultaneously championing the mindset that leads to that gun violence graph being off the charts.

Well, duh.

[leroy jenkins]

It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out.
New Mexico governor issues emergency order to suspend open, concealed carry of guns in Albuquerque

you know when even david hogg is saying your gun control measures are unconstitutional you're really overreaching.

[ex-powderbroker]

no one is talking about a magic wand except morons. making the laws reasonable like other places will reduce the opportunity murders / suicides. over time it will fall in general as fewer people bother to get guns because of the added friction. that’s less accessible guns for toddlers and thieves. adding friction like the many other countries that allow gun ownership and tweaking existing regulation with make the bars more like other countries. you’re welcome. smarten up and remember perfect is the enemy of good.

[SumJongGuy]

And there it is.. in the face of overwhelming evidence that more guns is directly proportional to more illegal and suicidal and accidental gun deaths it always ends up with IdS mUh RaWtS! dA CoNsTiTuTiOn!!! That is always the last gasp of gun worshippers when every other bullshit position has been thoroughly debunked.

[Cisco Kid]

bullshit bullshit bullshit .

"YOUR" gun control measures? Thanks for the tell. And the misquote from Hogg.

[leroy jenkins]

"YOUR" gun control measures? Thanks for the tell. And the misquote from Hogg.

It wasn't a quote, it was a paraphrase, and it was accurate. No fucking clue what supposed tell you're talking about.

[leroy jenkins]

And there it is.. in the face of overwhelming evidence that more guns is directly proportional to more illegal and suicidal and accidental gun deaths it always ends up with IdS mUh RaWtS! dA CoNsTiTuTiOn!!! That is always the last gasp of gun worshippers when every other bullshit position has been thoroughly debunked.

Where was this overwhelming evidence? Was it this evidence? https://crimeresearch.org/2023/08/ma...at-least-41-3/

[leroy jenkins]

no one is talking about a magic wand except morons. making the laws reasonable like other places will reduce the opportunity murders / suicides. over time it will fall in general as fewer people bother to get guns because of the added friction. that’s less accessible guns for toddlers and thieves. adding friction like the many other countries that allow gun ownership and tweaking existing regulation with make the bars more like other countries. you’re welcome. smarten up and remember perfect is the enemy of good.

This is a thing you believe. its not self evident or factual. It could be true, but its based in an emotional belief that this is how you want the world to work. I think there is every reason to believe that before criminal use of guns goes down, responsible use of guns to protect the user and others will go down if law abiding people are less able to get and carry guns. https://crimeresearch.org/2023/08/ma...at-least-41-3/

[ex-powderbroker]

lott is a troll who has been debunked everywhere. you are living in an alternative reality the same way election deniers do. i have no agenda outside of reducing firearm deaths and injuries, whereas he is biased towards gun ownership despite the facts. i don’t hate guns, i hate that fun supporters have put their “conclusions” before victims and their obstinance will cause many more victims before the ship can be righted. since you’re so proud to be among the willfully ignorant though, to fuck yourself.

[leroy jenkins]

lott is a troll who has been debunked everywhere. you are living in an alternative reality the same way election deniers do. i have no agenda outside of reducing firearm deaths and injuries, whereas he is biased towards gun ownership despite the facts. i don’t hate guns, i hate that fun supporters have put their “conclusions” before victims and their obstinance will cause many more victims before the ship can be righted. since you’re so proud to be among the willfully ignorant though, to fuck yourself.

How am I living in an alternate reality? You guys seem to only pay attention to evidence you like, while completely ignoring any evidence that guns can be useful in saving or protecting lives.

[SumJongGuy]

Let's see FBI data or some random idiot's that nobody's ever heard of.. Talk about starting with your flawed position and desperately searching for something, ANYTHING to support it. Next up the cries of aD hOmInEM!!

You got nothing from any reliable, peer reviewed source.. Just pure bullshit

[mcski]

The very, very few instances where guns have stopped a bad guy are far outweighed by orders of magnitude by the damage cause by guns before any unicorn saviors even materialize

You continue to ignore that the US is an outlier in all the bad stats when in comes to guns. We are not a special case, we just have a lobbying system that continues to protect the gun industry at all financial and human costs. No gun, no need for saving.

[leroy jenkins]

The very, very few instances where guns have stopped a bad guy are far outweighed by orders of magnitude by the damage cause by guns before any unicorn saviors even materialize

You continue to ignore that the US is an outlier in all the bad stats when in comes to guns. We are not a special case, we just have a lobbying system that continues to protect the gun industry at all financial and human costs. No gun, no need for saving.

Well there are other variables. Like the disenfranchised urban areas that were created by the mismanagement of reconstruction after the civil war and freeing of the slaves, and horrible Jim Crow laws. Most murders are concentrated geographically in these areas. I get guns are a variable, but to say they're the only variable and absolutely nothing else separates us from other countries is just absurd.

[mcski]

Keep repeating that nonsense , but the only difference of any significance, is the overwhelmingly bigger number of guns here va anywhere else in the world.

Notice how I never said only in the other post yet you claimed that I did as the basis for your bs argument and then diverted to other issues.

[bennymac]

No one said they were the only variable.

It’s disingenuous bullshit like this that makes you insufferable. And makes your “arguments” weak and pathetic. You have only yourself to blame when your history of repeatedly posting disingenuous bullshit gets you eventually labeled as a disingenuous bullshit peddler - which you clearly latch onto as an opportunity to deflect to
“Why are you attacking me personally? Ad hominem! Ad hominem I say!”

[leroy jenkins]

No one says they were the only variable.

It’s disingenuous bullshit like this that makes you insufferable.

The post I was quoting said "we are not a special case"

The implication of that is that, besides the variable of guns, we are basically the same as other countries. No? Thats not a strawman or anything disingenuous, its a pretty reasonable interpretation of that phrase. As is the phrase 'the only meaningful difference is the number of guns we have'. Thats not even an implication, thats outright stated.

Just like when someone said a few pages ago making it harder to get guns would "solve" suicide, its a pretty reasonable interpretation to think the word solve means ya know, solve.

I'm not doing your magical thinking and poor use of language to you. It isn't a strawman to point it out. You're doing some serious gymnastics here. It was just outright stated that someone is in fact, saying this exact thing.

But ok, "nobody said"... but you're still going to ignore any other variables?

I'm insufferable because your faulty logic is harder to entertain if anyone challanges your echo chamber.

[mcski]

We are not a special case is true but that’s not what you claimed

Same goes for you bs focus on “solving” suicide.

All your arguments rest on a foundation of bad faith interpretations

Your screen name is pretty well suited to your ability to listen here

[leroy jenkins]

We are not a special case is true but that’s not what you claimed

Same goes for you bs focus on “solving” suicide.

All your arguments rest on a foundation of bad faith interpretations

Your screen name is pretty well suited to your ability to listen here

How is 'the only meaningful difference is the number of guns we have' NOT saying there aren't any other meaningful variables? How in the world is that a bad faith interpretation?

[bennymac]

There can be other variables present without there being a difference between them - meaningful or otherwise.

Do you not understand this?

[ex-powderbroker]

if most murders are committed in highly urban areas are you saying you don’t care about the fact that there are less dense places with incidences of homicide per 100k that far exceed the biggest cities?

https://www.wlbt.com/story/35603714/...outputType=amp

looks like plenty of sparsely populated places suffer from more suicides too, member states when you pretended to care about that a couple of pages ago?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suic...by_county.webp

you assholes can slice the data however you want to excuse the gross amounts of violence, just admit that you care more about your toys than people dying.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Hey you guys, it’s not like other countries with stricter gun laws have systemic racism, urban problems and great wealth disparities but manage to have less gun homicide and gun suicide. I can’t believe that you guys believe it’s the guns[emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[bennymac]

Acknowledging that there are multiple variables when comparing gun violence in different countries does not equate to saying that these variables are therefore automatically different between countries.

I’m embarrassed for Leroy that he got tripped up by that.

He used to annoy me but now I just feel kinda sad for him - like I’m arguing with a toddler or a dementia patient about complicated topics - that’s just not fair or cool.