If only there was something we could do...

[leroy jenkins]

Probably could just post this every day

Or you could look at this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...y_suicide_rate The US does NOT lead the world in suicide rate. Do suicides not by firearm not count or something?

I really just don't understand this seemingly magical thinking you guys display. Only deaths by firearm matter?

[leroy jenkins]

triple any other country
just idiotic

What's uniquely amazing is the contorted thought processes that motivate the 2A crowd:
fear of a tyrannical woke liberal world that will provoke civil war, but the only saber rattling is coming from the crowd that advocates guns as the last guide rail before total destruction of the american way, despite zero government tyrants & zero citizen defensive actions to protect democracy. The exclamation point on this irony is the Jan6 event & the various militia actions in the news (ie, targeting Gov Widmer)

Death by firearm became the leading cause of death of children in 2020 (among BOTH children between the ages of one and 18, AND ages one and 19, based on several analyses of CDC data, the leading source for data regarding causes of death [link]), and yet that stupid statistic does not rise to the level of being worth fixing when remedies exist.

it's an own goal all day every day & these voters lean into it over & over -- it's a nonsensical religion at this point

and the dems continue to play by the rules by waiting on a storm surge of voter irritation to push these issues correctly through the channels, instead of the machiavellian republican maneuvers demonstrated most clearly under McConnell's reign in the Senate & state houses around the country limiting abortion & voting (gerrymandering)

Death by firearm isn't a cause its a method. Death by murder or accident or suicide are causes.

[Ted Striker]

What's uniquely amazing is the contorted thought processes that motivate the 2A crowd:
fear of a tyrannical woke liberal world that will provoke civil war, but the only saber rattling is coming from the crowd that advocates guns as the last guide rail before total destruction of the american way, despite zero government tyrants & zero citizen defensive actions to protect democracy. The exclamation point on this irony is the Jan6 event & the various militia actions in the news (ie, targeting Gov Widmer)

They're 100% ok with their tyrants.

it's a nonsensical religion at this point

All religion is nonsensical; theirs is just more so. Rather than relying on an old text, they continually reinvent current reality to fit a set of irrational beliefs. Just look at all the energy Leroy puts into redirection.

[ex-powderbroker]

“we can’t do anything about the deaths from guns because the govt could be bad in the future!”

and this doesn’t sound FUCKING STUPID to some people.

[nickwm21]

Good luck on that government resistance.

Reminder… they have a couple thousand AH-64s


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[SumJongGuy]

Here;s what it said in the first draft, Articles of Confederation.. it wasn't about individual OR states right to arm themselves against an oppressive UNITED STATES federal government. For the "you just don't know your history crowd"..

“The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country: but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms, shall be compelled to render military service in person.”

It was so you'd be ready to fight FOR the federal government, not against them..

https://medium.com/the-new-leader/de...t-bfe06dc06946

[skiJ]

Here;s what it said in the first draft, Articles of Confederation.. it wasn't about individual OR states right to arm themselves against an oppressive UNITED STATES federal government. For the "you just don't know your history crowd"..



It was so you'd be ready to fight FOR the federal government, not against them..

https://medium.com/the-new-leader/de...t-bfe06dc06946

I don't see anything in your cite about the Articles of Confederation.

but hey, ,,, never mind...


skiJ

[SumJongGuy]

I don't see anything in your cite about the Articles of Confederation.

but hey, ,,, never mind...


skiJ

Even better it was the first draft of the actual constitution itself

James Madison's initial proposal for a bill of rights was brought to the floor of the House of Representatives on June 8, 1789, during the first session of Congress. The initial proposed passage relating to arms was:

The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country: but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person.[13

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second...%20in%20person.

But hey, never mind,, Slave states insisted it be changed to state..

[skiJ]

but hey, ,,, don't let little facts and details get in the way of a good argument -

Articles of Confederation. see you in October.
and Yes, I believe the intention of the founding fathers was to encourage state militias as a balance to Federal tyranny ;
it was intended to remind the Federal government that the republic was formed on the belief that there not be 'taxation without representation' .

and
we don't know the meaning of a phase like, '... militia being the best security of a free country... ' anymore ;
it's Not about having a personal armory.

yes. see you in October...


tj

[Cisco Kid]

Cool. I believe the 2nd called for the maintenance of a "Well Regulated Militia" was to protect the local citizenry from being kidnapped by the natives (happened all the time back then) and to act to support the very weak US Military of the new USofA if the Brits invaded from Canada. And they did a couple of times.

[skiJ]

correction -
'... militia being the best security of a free State... '

it changes the word and allows a lawyerly argument ;
it does not change what the intent was of the militia's service was to be.

( tj )

[SumJongGuy]

Back at ya.. Changed to preserve slave patrls

His first draft for what became the Second Amendment had said: “The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed, and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country [emphasis mine]: but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms, shall be compelled to render military service in person.”

But Henry, Mason, and others wanted southern states to preserve their slave-patrol militias independent of the federal government. So Madison changed the word “country” to the word “state” and redrafted the Second Amendment into today’s form:

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State [emphasis mine], the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
http://www.milwaukeeindependent.com/...armed-militia/

The Civil War is all the proof anyone needs that no state has the right to use militias to fight federal tyranny. That wasn't the original intent of the founding fathers and no Henry, Mason wasn't a founding father

[leroy jenkins]

Here;s what it said in the first draft, Articles of Confederation.. it wasn't about individual OR states right to arm themselves against an oppressive UNITED STATES federal government. For the "you just don't know your history crowd"..



It was so you'd be ready to fight FOR the federal government, not against them..

https://medium.com/the-new-leader/de...t-bfe06dc06946

Hmm. I'm not getting that. It seems to just be the same thing but with a caveat preventing conscription?

[leroy jenkins]

Back at ya.. Changed to preserve slave patrls



The Civil War is all the proof anyone needs that no state has the right to use militias to fight federal tyranny. That wasn't the original intent of the founding fathers and no Henry, Mason wasn't a founding father

The civil war was not about fighting tyranny. Unless you count slavery as tyranny, which is a valid argument.

[leroy jenkins]

“we can’t do anything about the deaths from guns because the govt could be bad in the future!”

and this doesn’t sound FUCKING STUPID to some people.

Well also because waving a magic wand and disappearing all the guns isn't possible, and just taking them away from law abiding people won't make people safer, people have the right to self defense, and because they are used to stop crime and mass shootings as well.

[leroy jenkins]

They're 100% ok with their tyrants.

Now THIS is a good example of a strawman.

[Meadow Skipper]

It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out.
New Mexico governor issues emergency order to suspend open, concealed carry of guns in Albuquerque

[bennymac]

Or you could look at this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...y_suicide_rate The US does NOT lead the world in suicide rate. Do suicides not by firearm not count or something?

I really just don't understand this seemingly magical thinking you guys display. Only deaths by firearm matter?

It’s a graph of gun deaths you dipshit. So yeah - the US does lead the world in suicide by guns. Wave it away it you want - no one is surprised.

And while you’re picking apart the graph why don’t you comment on the homicide part huh?

[riser4]

Yes. Saying that gun control measures wouldn’t completely eliminate suicide so there shouldn’t be any gun control measures is a classic straw man approach.

You could call it that. Or, you could call it being a miserable fucking sociopathic self absorbed asshole that really doesn't belong in a civilized society and should be forced to go live some kind of Mad Max existence in an alternate universe.

[Meadow Skipper]

You could call it that. Or, you could call it being a miserable fucking sociopathic self absorbed asshole that really doesn't belong in a civilized society and should be forced to go live some kind of Mad Max existence in an alternate universe.

Or yeah, that.

[Ted Striker]

Ok Leroy, how so?

[SumJongGuy]

It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out.
New Mexico governor issues emergency order to suspend open, concealed carry of guns in Albuquerque

I wish it could be upheld by SCROTUS. But they wouldn't even uphold The Surgeon General/s and Academy of Pediatricians' right to access and keep gun injury and death records... because of course it (guns everywhere) would be called a healthcare crisis then..

[leroy jenkins]

Ok Leroy, how so?

Who is saying they're ok with tyrants these days? That is a strawman. I'm not a trump supporter but those who are fell for some sort of drain the swamp rhetoric, they're absolutely not supporting tyranny intentionally.

Surprisingly it was trump that let the patriot act expire.

At least thats what I assume you're referring to. If not, feel free to educate me how 2A supporters are cheerleading tyranny.

[bennymac]

Why don't you instead explain to us the discrepancy in the red bars of the graph you giant coward

[SumJongGuy]

Why don't you instead explain to us the discrepancy in the red bars of the graph you giant coward

It's the price of FREEDUMBS! you pinko commie!