If only there was something we could do...

[oldnew_guy]

I think it makes more sense to give every immigrant a dose of fentanyl to carry around.

I think if there was more fenantyl around, everyone would be safer.

It's not the fentantyl, its the person. Why ban me from having fentantyl when it's just a few bad apples?



Most fentanyl deaths are just related to the homeless or drug/gang issues....


Fentanyl deaths are not really that many people dying in the big picture, are mostly self inflicted (so should be excluded from the analysis).

[skiJ]

The communication post Uvalde was a cluster, so this may have been changed again later, but:

“Editor’s Note: On Thursday, the Department of Public Safety clarified a Uvalde ISD officer was not on campus and was not the first member of law enforcement to confront the shooter.”

https://www.kxan.com/investigations/...ngage-shooter/

three things regarding Uvalde -
an armed assailant was know to be in the neighborhood ( I believe he had shot his custodial grandmother ), so instead of securing the school, the on-site 'School District Police officer' left the school property reportly to search for the shooter ;
the 'School District Police chief' assumed incident command and ordered law enforcement to 'stand-down' reasoning there was not an 'active shooter' to engage ;
the classroom door opened Out in to the hallway and was determined to have been unlocked as the 'School Disctrict Police chief' waited a significant amount of time for a key to be found ;
ultimately, a Federal Border Patrol officer took the initiative, engaging and killing the shooter while being wounded himself.

References to these reports can be found up-thread, approximately a year ago.

Good luck. skiJ

[leroy jenkins]

So just ignore the last decade where the gun death rate increased YOY and only judge the most recent 5 months where (as stated in the article you linked) the incomplete and preliminary data is showing a 5-10% decrease in murder rate.


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No thats not true. Murders and murders by firearm were both on the decline since the early 90s besides a slight uptick during the pandemic and defund the police bullshit.

I've supplied links stating as much like a dozen times in this thread.

[leroy jenkins]

I think it makes more sense to give every immigrant a dose of fentanyl to carry around.

I think if there was more fenantyl around, everyone would be safer.

It's not the fentantyl, its the person. Why ban me from having fentantyl when it's just a few bad apples?



Most fentanyl deaths are just related to the homeless or drug/gang issues....


Fentanyl deaths are not really that many people dying in the big picture, are mostly self inflicted (so should be excluded from the analysis).

Do you have any stats on use of fent in self defense overdoses?

Is the right to dishonestly lace other drugs with fent and sell it to unknowing people something that is enshrined in the constitution or at all legally or morally defensible? Is anyone going to fight for that right?

[leroy jenkins]

Fentanyl being the #1 killer of folks under 50 years old?

A whopping one in 5 deaths in california for teens and young adults. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-san-francisco

Sorry, I guess its only the leading cause of death nationwide for 18-45 year olds. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/go...ue/ar-AA1ajscr

Although it is the leading cause of death for 0-50 year olds in Wisconsin, or at least this headline says so, the actual data in the article is a bit hard to parse exactly. https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/oth...dy/ar-AA1clOSy

Heart disease remains the leading cause of death for all ages 18+ nationwide.

[::: :::]

No thats not true. Murders and murders by firearm were both on the decline since the early 90s besides a slight uptick during the pandemic and defund the police bullshit.

I've supplied links stating as much like a dozen times in this thread.

well, not quite: murder by gun went down DURING the 90s (assault rifle ban just after the peak of that chart? huh...) & then fluctuated (ARB sunsetted 10yrs later) & started growing somewhere after 2010 according to Pew Research

[Peruvian]

A whopping one in 5 deaths in california for teens and young adults. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-san-francisco

Sorry, I guess its only the leading cause of death nationwide for 18-45 year olds. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/go...ue/ar-AA1ajscr

Although it is the leading cause of death for 0-50 year olds in Wisconsin, or at least this headline says so, the actual data in the article is a bit hard to parse exactly. https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/oth...dy/ar-AA1clOSy

Heart disease remains the leading cause of death for all ages 18+ nationwide.

So sad. Thanks for sharing.

[::: :::]

https://www.billboard.com/music/musi...al-1235357162/

[MagnificentUnicorn]

https://www.billboard.com/music/musi...al-1235357162/

Just came to post this. Nothing to see, no problem with gun access in this country it’s all normal.


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[::: :::]

It’s appalling

Why responsible gun owners can shrug at this I just can’t fathom.
The presumption of public safety is eroding because of gun access. It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy: unregulated access to guns creates the dangerous world that people pretend to want to prevent.

And, if not at least have some moral concern at ruining public safety and wellbeing, i would like to think it should be fucking enraging that people are fucking up the gun lifestyle [for lack of a better term] by misusing firearms and ruining the presumption of reasonable access to firearms.

Gun rights activists are making their own bed right now. It is sad how stupid and self-harming it is for all of us.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

The problem for them is that people in the middle and to the left are going to get fed up and demand legislators do something. It’s outrageous and I’m a firearms owner. It’s so ridiculously easy to buy semiautomatic firearms in this country. Make it harder. Treat mental illness don’t talk about it, do something. Be honest about the second amendment, The People means the citizens not individuals, and a well regulated militia means just that.


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[nickwm21]

No thats not true. Murders and murders by firearm were both on the decline since the early 90s besides a slight uptick during the pandemic and defund the police bullshit.

I've supplied links stating as much like a dozen times in this thread.

You’re Incorrect. Well according to the CDC, FBI and Pew Research…


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[Peruvian]

The presumption of public safety is eroding because of gun access. It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy: unregulated access to guns creates the dangerous world that people pretend to want to prevent.

It really is a brilliant marketing ploy. Sell guns to the level that is becomes unsafe and then convince folks that their only route to safety is by purchasing a gun.

[Meadow Skipper]

So, I’m thinking of going to an outdoor concert tonight. Question for the collective: Skip the concert so I don’t get my ass blown off, or carry so I can blow the mass shooter’s ass off?

Nice choices.

[ex-powderbroker]

Gun rights activists are making their own bed right now. It is sad how stupid and self-harming it is for all of us.

it’s the world they’ve wanted for awhile and jay dickey had regrets. i’m sure this op-ed was posted ten years ago.

https://archive.is/Dov4t

[54-46]

but still less criminals, right?

“Fewer. Fewer criminals.”
- Stannis Baratheon


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[::: :::]

it’s the world they’ve wanted for awhile and jay dickey had regrets. i’m sure this op-ed was posted ten years ago.

https://archive.is/Dov4t

We won’t know the cause of gun violence until we look for it
Opinions - The Washington Post - 7/28/2012
Her death was tragic, but it wasn’t “senseless.” In scientific terms, it was explicable. The runner, who had competed in 15 marathons and broken many records, wore no lights or reflective vest in the early-morning darkness; she crossed the street within crosswalk lines that had faded to near-invisibility; there were no speed bumps on this wide, flat street to slow cars down.
Scientists don’t view traffic injuries as “senseless” or “accidental” but as events susceptible to understanding and prevention. Urban planners, elected officials and highway engineers approach such injuries by asking four questions: What is the problem? What are the causes? Have effective interventions been discovered? Can we install these interventions in our community?

The federal government has invested billions to understand the causes of motor vehicle fatalities and, with that knowledge, has markedly reduced traffic deaths in the United States. Since the mid-1970s, research has inspired such interventions as child restraints, seat belts, frontal air bags, a minimum drinking age and motorcycle helmets. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates that 366,000 lives were saved through such efforts from 1975 to 2009.

Through the same scientific, evidence-based approach, our country has made progress understanding and preventing violence. Once upon a time, law-abiding citizens believed that violence generated by evil always had existed and always would exist. By the mid-20th century, that sense of fatalism was yielding to discoveries by social scientists, physicians and epidemiologists. Now a body of knowledge exists that makes it clear that an event such as the mass shooting in Aurora, Colo., was not a “senseless” occurrence as random as a hurricane or earthquake but, rather, has underlying causes that can be understood and used to prevent similar mass shootings.
We also recognize different types of violence, including child abuse and neglect, sexual assault, elder abuse, suicide and economically and politically motivated violence. Like motor vehicle injuries, violence exists in a cause-and-effect world; things happen for predictable reasons. By studying the causes of a tragic — but not senseless — event, we can help prevent another.

Recently, some have observed that no policies can reduce firearm fatalities, but that’s not quite true. Research-based observations are available. Childproof locks, safe-storage devices and waiting periods save lives.

But it’s vital to understand why we know more and spend so much more on preventing traffic fatalities than on preventing gun violence, even though firearm deaths (31,347 in 2009, the most recent year for which statistics are available) approximate the number of motor vehicle deaths (32,885 in 2010).

From 1986 to 1996, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) sponsored high-quality, peer-reviewed research into the underlying causes of gun violence. People who kept guns in their homes did not — despite their hopes — gain protection, according to research published in the New England Journal of Medicine. Instead, residents in homes with a gun faced a 2.7-fold greater risk of homicide and a 4.8-fold greater risk of suicide. The National Rifle Association moved to suppress the dissemination of these results and to block funding of future government research into the causes of firearm injuries.
One of us served as the NRA’s point person in Congress and submitted an amendment to an appropriations bill that removed $2.6 million from the CDC’s budget, the amount the agency’s injury center had spent on firearms-related research the previous year. This amendment, together with a stipulation that “None of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention may be used to advocate or promote gun control,” sent a chilling message.

Since the legislation passed in 1996, the United States has spent about $240 million a year on traffic safety research, but there has been almost no publicly funded research on firearm injuries.

As a consequence, U.S. scientists cannot answer the most basic question: What works to prevent firearm injuries? We don’t know whether having more citizens carry guns would decrease or increase firearm deaths; or whether firearm registration and licensing would make inner-city residents safer or expose them to greater harm. We don’t know whether a ban on assault weapons or large-capacity magazines, or limiting access to ammunition, would have saved lives in Aurora or would make it riskier for people to go to a movie. And we don’t know how to effectively restrict access to firearms by those with serious mental illness.

What we do know is that firearm injuries will continue to claim far too many lives at home, at school, at work and at the movies until we start asking and answering the hard questions. “Such violence, such evil is senseless,” President Obama said last week. What is truly senseless is to decry these deaths as senseless when the tools exist to understand causes and to prevent these deadly effects.

We were on opposite sides of the heated battle 16 years ago, but we are in strong agreement now that scientific research should be conducted into preventing firearm injuries and that ways to prevent firearm deaths can be found without encroaching on the rights of legitimate gun owners. The same evidence-based approach that is saving millions of lives from motor-vehicle crashes, as well as from smoking, cancer and HIV/AIDS, can help reduce the toll of deaths and injuries from gun violence.

Most politicians fear talking about guns almost as much as they would being confronted by one, but these fears are senseless. We must learn what we can do to save lives. It is like the answer to the question “When is the best time to plant a tree?” The best time to start was 20 years ago; the second-best time is now.

^^^ this isn’t news for most, but deserves repeating

[TBS]

So, I’m thinking of going to an outdoor concert tonight. Question for the collective: Skip the concert so I don’t get my ass blown off, or carry so I can blow the mass shooter’s ass off?

Nice choices.

I was just thinking about something similar. Our little town’s music festival season starts next weekend. There’s another event in late July and a big festival late September. Brings in between 1000-5000 people per event in a town of 3000. I’ve been a volunteer supervisor for these events the last ten years.

It’s Americana music, demographic is genX and boomer, and there’s a “no weapons” rule, but last year (for the first time since I started) the Sheriffs had to disabuse a couple of people of the notion their 2A rights to openly carry superseded event restrictions.

So now we get to increase vigilance. For events that fund the school’s arts programs…

[leroy jenkins]

So sad. Thanks for sharing.

Yea. I really would like to see stats compiled for all causes of death related to the drug trade and gang activity.

Drug od's, violence of any sort regardless of weapon as long as its drug or gang related, (fatal stabbings are more common by more than threefold than shootings by rifle), and I'm sure even some suicides are directly related, let alone deaths from poor health caused by drug (not alcohol) addiction.

I'm pretty sure if you add up all those, it absolutely dwarfs anything else, and the numbers would shock just about anyone. But those stats aren't compiled. No one wants to think about it. Plenty of funding to study and compile stats of gun deaths by the very well funded anti gun crowd, and some amount of funding to compile stats on valid self defense usage of a firearm by the pro gun rights crowd, but no one seems to want to know what the true cost of the drug trade and gang violence is.

Meanwhile the ultrarich make money on every single part of the failed war on drugs, both legally and illegally. The prison industrial complex is profitable for them, but the major US banks have all been caught knowingly laundering cartel money as well, and if they're doing that as institutions, I am sure there are bribes to powerful individuals as well, including our lawmakers and law enforcement.

But its too terrifying to face this reality. In order to overcome it we would have to create some unity amongst the citizenry, and not just blame those with different ideologies than us. Politicians of both parties, especially the dems, rile up angst about the gun issue to generate funds and votes, but no one wants to actually tackle the drug trade in a non polarizing objective way because they aren't allowed to by their masters.

[leroy jenkins]

^^^ this isn’t news for most, but deserves repeating

Correlation doesn't equal causation. I am not in any danger by keeping a gun in my home, but people who are in danger may choose to keep a gun in their home.

[leroy jenkins]

well, not quite: murder by gun went down DURING the 90s (assault rifle ban just after the peak of that chart? huh...) & then fluctuated (ARB sunsetted 10yrs later) & started growing somewhere after 2010 according to Pew Research

I said its been falling since the early 90s. It peaked in 92.

How am I wrong?

It fluctuated a bit but stayed low, then climbed a bit around 2016, while still remaining fairly low, and jumped up a lot during the pandemic and defund the police bullshit. The news and you guys act like its magadishu out there. Not to mention the fact that chart is charting TOTAL murders, not adjusted for an increasing population size overall. A graph charting murders adjusted for population size would look a lot different. I know this because, well, logic, but also because the one I posted a few pages back WAS adjusted for population size, and when done so, pre pandemic was less violent than the 70s and 80s.

Meanwhile suicides are steadily climbing.

[nickwm21]

Here’s your per capita chart. Wake up dude.




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[leroy jenkins]

Here’s your per capita chart. Wake up dude.




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What exactly am I supposed to wake up to? How is that not exactly what I described? We can disagree about things but this seems pedantic. I do notice it continued to fall after the 92 assault weapons ban sunset, for a few more years, although I'm not claiming thats the cause. You can say smug things like "wake up dude" but can't articulate what I was actually wrong about?

[SumJongGuy]

If only there was a way to convince stupid people how stupid they are..

[byates1]

^ i assume you're referring to ppl who post on ski message boards incessantly who do not ski. boy, i'll tell you, they are the stupidester