If only there was something we could do...

[J. Barron DeJong]

Mass shooting scorecard 2023 ytd

Germany 1 - USA 202

Yes, but the fact that it can happen even once there has proved definitively that the problem can’t be solved by gun control.

[ex-powderbroker]

if you guys would stop fearing and hating gun owners it would also go away.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

It’s self loathing, many of us gun owners want stricter gun control. People that have never tried to buy a firearm would be shocked at how easy it is.


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[oldnew_guy]

I could monologue about my ideas, but I'm not omniscient. A democratic discourse involving more people than just me to brainstorm ideas IS an idea that I do believe in. If I'm the only one doing it it's going to be useless. The discourse and the common willingness to engage in it are themselves essential. Its not just about the ideas, but about people en masse being willing to focus on what can be agreed upon and not just what can be fought over. One person doing it is a lecture or a monologue not a discourse.

But yea, especially when some of you guys criticize pro 2a people for not being willing to have that conversation I will point out that I am totally willing and some of you seem not to be.

I have touched on things I think would help. If anyone is willing to interact with those ideas we can go more in depth and see what solutions can be found, but the unity is just as necessary as the ideas.

If anyone really can't focus on anything but gun restrictions I think that is because of their fear and hatred driving them more than any sort of compassion.

So..... post something engaging about these topics you want to talk about that get at reducing gun violence. Hand waving at "culture wars", "social media", "prison industrial complex", etc is not engaging.

Or is your only technique to monologue? Stop foreclosing the conversation by saying "no one want to talk about X topic" and then never posting anything about the topics you want to talk about.

Or just stop whining about it.

[Ted Striker]

@ Leroy, no I wasn't calling you a Nazi. Quite the contrary, actually.

In post #5496 you lamented that America is too politically impatient to fix homelessness, gang violence, education, and the over-zealous private-for-profit prison complex. And that's true. It's also true that the American right wants it that way. They vote for its support every, single, time. Same goes for self-styled "libertarians".

The way to fix that is a little Democratic Socialism. You're an undercover Bernie Bro!

[MagnificentUnicorn]

It’s all because of the self loathing


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[SumJongGuy]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

[TBS]

Holy Shite. My first ever Super Yahtzee- seven consecutive posts by just one poster on my ignore list.

Leroy Jenkins! Posts 5537 thru 5543

Guessing many of you achieved this milestone today as well.

[mcski]

It’s self loathing, many of us gun owners want stricter gun control. People that have never tried to buy a firearm would be shocked at how easy it is.


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Prob said this before but it completely blew my mind when I happened to be in a huge sporting goods store that sold guns right after the Newtown massacre and guns were flying off the shelves like Filene’s basement sale. Mad rush to stock because Obama was gonna take all the guns to stop gun massacres 🤦🤬

[riser4]

Holy Shite. My first ever Super Yahtzee- seven consecutive posts by just one poster on my ignore list.

Leroy Jenkins! Posts 5537 thru 5543

Guessing many of you achieved this milestone today as well.

Yup.

[SumJongGuy]

[TBS]

Jesus Fucking Christ - another activist judge

Judge in Virginia Strikes Down Federal Limit on Age of Handgun Buyers

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/11/u...smid=url-share

Judge Robert E. Payne of Federal District Court in Richmond, Va., ruled on Wednesday that statutes and regulations put in place over the past few decades to enforce age requirements on sales of handguns, like the semiautomatic Glock-style pistols, by federally licensed weapons dealers were “not consistent with our nation’s history and tradition” and therefore could not stand.

A citizen’s Second Amendment rights do not “vest at age 21,” he added.

“It’s a free country
I’m within my rights
Every child should have a weapon and a ton of dynamite
My hands are steady
My eyes cold
The voice inside my head keeps saying ‘do as you are told’”
— Was (not Was)

[::: :::]

This no compromise tribal strategy is mindless self-harm to our society.
We can expect no responsible action from gun nuts. It’s just par for the course for the firearms’ tribe to perform further suicide.

[SumJongGuy]

This no compromise tribal strategy is mindless self-harm to our society.
We can expect no responsible action from gun nuts. It’s just par for the course for the firearms’ tribe to perform further MURDER suicide.

fixed it for you

It's fear driven. They're terrified of having to coexist out in public without some military tactical advantage over most other average citizens (and non citizens)..

[SumJongGuy]

So if Daniel Penny had shot Jordan Neely in a Stand Your Ground state would he be charged for anything?? All he has to do is say he was afraid for his own safety amirite?? I think NY City is handling this correctly FWIW, He is at least somehow responsible for the death of Jordan Neely even if it was a complete accident with underlying medical condition being a factor.

Don't think he intended to harm the dude.. But in Florida he probably could have shot him in the face with zero repercussions.

[californiagrown]

So if Daniel Penny had shot Jordan Neely in a Stand Your Ground state would he be charged for anything?? All he has to do is say he was afraid for his own safety amirite?? I think NY City is handling this correctly FWIW, He is at least somehow responsible for the death of Jordan Neely even if it was a complete accident with underlying medical condition being a factor.

Don't think he intended to harm the dude.. But in Florida he probably could have shot him in the face with zero repercussions.

If he continued using force after the threat was eliminated then its a problem (Ie. did he continue choking him out after the guy very obviously went limp or obviously gave up). But i would think its a slamdunk defense to say that Neely was threatening bodily harm and putting him in a chokehold to stop the threat was justifiable.


Its a tough spot. If you are a young strapping marine and you see a zrazy person harassing and threatening people around you, is it really the right thing to just leave and let the other more vulnerable people deal with that threating behavior? Or does that young marine have something of an ethical duty to step in? If i was in that situation i wouldnt want to be tried for manslaughter for trying to do the right thing and step in.

[SumJongGuy]

Its a tough spot. If you are a young strapping marine and you see a zrazy person harassing and threatening people around you, is it really the right thing to just leave and let the other more vulnerable people deal with that threating behavior? Or does that young marine have something of an ethical duty to step in? If i was in that situation i wouldnt want to be tried for manslaughter for trying to do the right thing and step in.

Last college classroom discussion I had, way before Stand Your Ground bullshit the professor said that you can only use deadly force to defend yourself or an immediate family member. i.e. you can't even shoot or throat punch someone who's attacking your best friend. I'd like to think we're now somewhere between that and "OK to shoot anyone in the face if you feel the least bit threatened" but we're clearly closer to the latter..

[ex-powderbroker]

If he continued using force after the threat was eliminated then its a problem (Ie. did he continue choking him out after the guy very obviously went limp or obviously gave up). But i would think its a slamdunk defense to say that Neely was threatening bodily harm and putting him in a chokehold to stop the threat was justifiable.


Its a tough spot. If you are a young strapping marine and you see a zrazy person harassing and threatening people around you, is it really the right thing to just leave and let the other more vulnerable people deal with that threating behavior? Or does that young marine have something of an ethical duty to step in? If i was in that situation i wouldnt want to be tried for manslaughter for trying to do the right thing and step in.

is there evidence he was threatening people or was he just behaving in an erratic way?

mass transit has become downright strange the past couple of years because there are some really off elements running around, some of which are actually threatening and some which are just unpleasant to be around.

i have been in the subway when i have thought about intervening and also when i wish someone would have intervened on my behalf. it's a truly fucked up world.

[californiagrown]

is there evidence he was threatening people or was he just behaving in an erratic way?

mass transit has become downright strange the past couple of years because there are some really off elements running around, some of which are actually threatening and some which are just unpleasant to be around.

i have been in the subway when i have thought about intervening and also when i wish someone would have intervened on my behalf. it's a truly fucked up world.

IDK, i havent watched the video, just heard in various reports the guy was harassing/threatening. But the difference between erratic behavior and threatening behavior is in the eye of the fellow passengers and can be a very fine line. Never been on public transit in NYC but have riden public transit in SF and SEA a bunch and dealt with my fair share of mentally unstable folks- as you said, not fun.

[J. Barron DeJong]

is there evidence he was threatening people or was he just behaving in an erratic way?

mass transit has become downright strange the past couple of years because there are some really off elements running around, some of which are actually threatening and some which are just unpleasant to be around.

i have been in the subway when i have thought about intervening and also when i wish someone would have intervened on my behalf. it's a truly fucked up world.

All the witness statements I’m aware of say they did not feel physically threatened, but can’t say for certain that I’ve seen all witness statements.

[californiagrown]

All the witness statements I’m aware of say they did not feel physically threatened, but can’t say for certain that I’ve seen all witness statements.

IDK, because IDK what news reports and anonymous witness accounts are legit or not, but after a brief google search there are quite a few accounts of Neelys behavior certainly being what i would consider threatening. Also take into account that a couple other passengers did jump in to help the marine subdue Neely as well, so its not like the marine was the only one who thought Neely needed to be restrained in that train car. Add in the fact that Neely had pleaded guilty to assaulting a 67 yr old lady at a subways station in 2021 and yeah the facts are painting an ugly picture... so IMO, the question probably is was the chokehold held longer than necessary?

[mcski]

Since the dude is dead, im gonna lean toward uh ya

[ex-powderbroker]

Newley’s character is suspect and there is a history of convictions but just because someone intervened and some other people jumped in doesn’t make him guilty here.

i’m not weighing in either way btw.

if anything, might as well put some cameras on every car at this point.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Newley’s character is suspect and there is a history of convictions but just because someone intervened and some other people jumped in doesn’t make him guilty here.

i’m not weighing in either way btw.

if anything, might as well put some cameras on every car at this point.

Past behavior isn’t an excuse here, because no one involved in this incident was aware of his past history, so weren’t able to use that in assessing the current situation.

My understanding, and again I may have missed things, is that he was acting erratically, making threatening statements, but no witness stated that they personally felt like a physical threat was imminent.

ETA:


https://twitter.com/jbouie/status/16...sR_NcRK2VkCfkg

[ex-powderbroker]

Jamelle's op-ed the other day about the subject was one of his best pieces. I was wondering about how hard he was getting hit on Twitter for it.

Thanks for always screen capping those - I don't want to give Elno a single click.