If only there was something we could do...

[hikesalot]

[cinnepa]

Republican governor blaming it on mental issues now.....the status quo will remain, nothing will change. Both parties blow.

[cinnepa]

It's a background check not a drug test. Try and keep up.

Seems like the simplest thing to implement.

[summit]

I've seen this floating around. It is fucking stupid when pro-gun-control people put it forward thinking that it will sway anyone in their favor because they are putting forward the horrible treatment of a woman as though it was OK and thus OK to do to someone wanting to purchase a firearm.

Is it good when pro-choice people put it forward? It makes a solid point, but what is issue of the day?

How about we don't subject women who want an abortion to that horseshit AND not link these issues? That's my vote as someone who is Pro-Choice and generally Pro-2A.

[skiJ]

No. One of the things that makes America great is that pretty much everything is soft targets. Everything is cheaper and more efficient when you live in a secure state that is not a security state. We could all live behind walls and drive armored vehicles and have checkpoints to enter secure areas. All the valuable things we leave laying around like cars on the street, copper powerlines, ATMs, etc could all be locked away. Well, some things like powerlines we'd do without, but you could have a generator.

Moving to a security state or police state is the wrong direction. There's a part of our society that wants to fear the rest of society. Fear is a plague we need to work against so everyone can have a good free life.

I believe the parameters of what constitute a secure state, a security state ( or a police state ? ) have changed in the last twenty years -

' Fear is a plague we need to work against so everyone can have a good free life. ' sounds great !
Fear did not kill twenty children in Texas yesterday.

Hate is the plague I see -
bigotry and racism.

I "fear" law enforcement - and I have worked with them in emergency response situations for thirty years...

we can make schools safer
( we better make schools safer ) ! !!!

I read an interview with an new freshman from a metropolitan city, coming to a nearby college -
One of his criteria for selecting Finlandia was he 'believed it would be Safe. '

Fear is one of those veiled-insults that kills construction -

Hate is the plague I see.


What's your solution ? Because my impression of a "secure state" is very different than it was twenty-one years ago and forty years ago...

... a good (free) life. ain't free.


respectfully. tj

[Ted Striker]

If Roe isn't settled law, neither is Heller

[Peruvian]

[RoooR]

What's your solution ? Because my impression of a "secure state" is very different than it was twenty-one years ago and forty years ago...

... a good (free) life. ain't free.

Well 20 and especially 40 years ago this was a WAY more dangerous country. More muder. More rape. More kidnappings. Etc.

[leroy jenkins]

What the fuck do you expect? Less than 24 hours out of the senseless horrific and tragic murders of 19 young children and a teacher at school, everyone is just going to turn off their emotions and focus on a cold, rationale, reasonable, and achievable gun policy in a left leaning internet forum?

Most everyone knows you you struggle with understanding how most humans react and interact. This is a reminder to you of your blindness.

Nah I'm just removed from it because I don't watch the news. It does help keep things in perspective. Humans were not meant to experience the outrage from events so far flung to them that we get by experiencing them via video etc on the news. Its not bad to have empathy, but this level of outrage and connection to events that do not involve you isn't healthy, nor is it a sign of higher levels of compassion or enlightenment. We should call it what it is, and imbalance caused by saturation of info of all the fucked up shit thats going on in the world.

[hikesalot]

I've seen this floating around. It is fucking stupid when pro-gun-control people put it forward thinking that it will sway anyone in their favor because they are putting forward the horrible treatment of a woman as though it was OK and thus OK to do to someone wanting to purchase a firearm.

Is it good when pro-choice people put it forward? It makes a solid point, but what is issue of the day?

How about we don't subject women who want an abortion to that horseshit AND not link these issues? That's my vote as someone who is Pro-Choice and generally Pro-2A.

Agreed it’s not ok for those seeking abortion. But the hypocrisy of pro-lifers putting these measures in place but also not wanting to put anything in place for gun control is maddening. And that quote speaks to that.

[Cono Este]

Beto crashes presser


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[ex-powderbroker]

That's my vote as someone who is Pro-Choice and generally Pro-2A.

In what possible way could you be 'pro 2a'? It is the most terribly written and interpreted POS legislation ever written. You could be pro gun-ownership and still advocate relegating it into the dustbin of history. Or can we go back to the well regulated militias part? If so, then sure. Put me in pro 2a meaning 'well regulated' too.

The free for all clusterfuck that allows the flooding the zone of technicality bullshit gets us nowhere. Handguns... suck. Assault weapons.... suck. 350m weapons circulating unchecked really sucks and so does the fact that a troubled person can legally go get whatever they want and they're not a criminal until some 4th grader is dead.

database
background checks
insurance
buy backs

it is not hard to do if people are sick of seeing a homicide rate not commensurate with 'the greatest country on earth'.

[dunfree]

It's a background check not a drug test. Try and keep up.

So you don’t know what the fuck you are talking about Bobby littledick? How new! What’s a prohibited person Bobby? Would that be an unlawful user of any controlled substance?

I think that parts dumb, but it’s still part of the law, and shows how pointless your argument is.

[leroy jenkins]

Get the fuck out of here with the "whataboutism". The presence of other terrible acts does not mean we can't fix or seek to address other, less terrible acts. Your stance is "terrible things have happened in history, therefore nothing matters."

You have yet to offer anything of value to the conversation from a counterposition standpoint - whether it's data, meaningful points or otherwise. I'm happy to engage in debate when it's done in good faith. You're just throwing shit at the wall to try to distract from talking about firearms. At no point did I declare your points wholly invalid, I stated my position that there was no reason for firearms beyond bolt action from a "tool usage" standpoint. If you have meaningful counterpoints, fucking make them already.

No my stance is those terrible thigns happen to unarmed populations. There is more nuance to history than you believe. You guys believe gun control will solve our problems because you're experiencing emotional reactions to a fucked up situation. There is no indication that your efforts will be successful in removing guns from a country with almost 500 million of them, or in making it safer, other than you emotionally want to believe that would be true. There is also no consideration of anything other than believing that it would be unequivocally good. No idea of long term vs short term benefits, just an idyllic vision that this would be great and we'd all get to be safe because its 100% about the guns and nothing else because pharma companies are a sacred cow and everything that is fucked up with how we as a society raise people and raise our children is less gratifying to rant about.

I'm fine supporting reasonable common sense gun measures, but those don't include anything that creates a registry or de facto registry of gun owners. A nice old gent who fought in the Dutch Resistance in WWII gave a talk at my school in college, when asked what we should do to prevent it happening in the USA, he said don't have gun registries, he then described watching the Nazis go door to door demanding peoples guns and if you couldn't produce the item they had listed the shot the male head of household and asked again.

I think they are just going to keep taking rights and freedoms from us progressively and see how much we will put up with. Roe v wade being a significant erosion of the rights of the individual to have autonomy instead of safety before they even exist. If we don't stop squabbling over which rights are precious to us and which we think are stupid they're going to keep taking them from us. Regardless of our feelings about guns and wanting a safer world, we need to apply them to the world we actually live in, where both the left and right wing of our political apparatus have low approval ratins, low levels of trust, are basically openly owned by companies with ties to hostile authoritarian foriegn powers, and our country is becoming increasingly destabilized and divided. The only thing the L and R wing politicians seem to agree on is making this coutnry become increasingly authoritarian. With this being reality I don't see now as being a time to ban all guns unless you're a grown man clutching a teddy bear.

[Ted Striker]

Published 21 times and counting...

[summit]

Nah I'm just removed from it because I don't watch the news ... this level of outrage and connection to events that do not involve you isn't healthy, nor is it a sign of higher levels of compassion or enlightenment.

I don't mean this offensively, but are you on the spectrum?

You seem only capable of looking at your own perspective and extending that to how you think others should perceive the world. You seem incapable of putting yourself in the shoes of others, and adjusting accordingly, even when led by the nose to that trough!

Your tone deafness makes your words wasted (and you invest considerable time in writing dubious quantities) even if there is a point to glean.

[summit]

In what possible way could you be 'pro 2a'?

I think you are assuming a particular meaning to "pro 2a" when there is a range. Similarly narrow in definition, there are "pro 2a" people who consider me "anti" because I support things like universal background checks.

[leroy jenkins]

Agreed it’s not ok for those seeking abortion. But the hypocrisy of pro-lifers putting these measures in place but also not wanting to put anything in place for gun control is maddening. And that quote speaks to that.

I wish people woudl stop thinking of the left and right as these monoliths. Oh some people support this while some others support this.

There are plenty of people who are in favor of abortions being legal despite being pro 2a and actually pro life in their personal lives. Tons.

[paulster2626]

Awful. Just awful. The rest of the world once again watches aghast as the USA does nothing in response. It's incomprehensible. This sort of thing should galvanize a nation, not divide it.



Another bunch o kids in a bloody mess
Another maniac killin innocents
Analyst and experts on CNN
Explain away the pain on a day so grey

Without the dark the stars can't shine
I pray to hope through the hard times
What things could change to save more lives?
I think you know

Why oh why do they second guess
Gun Control
My my my what an ugly mess
Bless their souls

I don't wanna hear about his troubled past
There's a million little freaks with a past like that
People sayin' there was something wrong with his head
If he couldn't get a gun there'd be nobody dead

Why oh why do they second guess
Gun Control
My my my what an ugly mess
Bless their souls

Without the dark the stars cant shine
I pray for hope through the hard times
What things could change to save more lives?
I think he knows where its at

Freedom to take other peoples freedom away
Is this what has become of the U.S.A

Why oh why do they second guess
Gun Control
My my my what an ugly mess
Bless their souls
Why oh why do they second guess
Gun Control
My my my what a f**en mess
Bless their souls
Bless their souls
Bless their souls
Bless their souls

[PNWbrit]

Pretty sure everyone calling for better gun control is also holding pharmaceutical companies responsible for their part in the opioid epidemic.

I believe I'm correct in saying $32B is the total opioid settlement number, so far.

Is Leroy suggesting a similar solution with the firearm industry?

[leroy jenkins]

I don't mean this offensively, but are you on the spectrum?

You seem only capable of looking at your own perspective and extending that to how you think others should perceive the world. You seem incapable of putting yourself in the shoes of others, and adjusting accordingly, even when led by the nose to that trough!

Your tone deafness makes your words wasted (and you invest considerable time in writing dubious quantities) even if there is a point to glean.

Nope. I can put myself in your shoes, but honestly dude, disconnecting from the news for a while puts this all in perspective. With what it does to you sympathetic nervous system, its a drug, the news is a mind altering drug. You can read whats going on in the world without exposing yourself to that. I have huge amounts of empathy for human suffering, and for those I encounter face to face who share their own vulnerability and emotions. Many in this thread start from the perspective that those who disagree with them have no possible reason to do so other than insanity and that is a mind numbing and mind closing way to go through the world.

[ex-powderbroker]

I think you are assuming a particular meaning to "pro 2a" when there is a range. Similarly narrow in definition, there are "pro 2a" people who consider me "anti" because I support things like universal background checks.

Culturally to me it seems like saying one is 'pro 2a' is the same as saying 'from my cold dead hands'. It could just be my read and image search though.

[leroy jenkins]

I believe I'm correct in saying $32B is the total opioid settlement number, so far.

Is Leroy suggesting a similar solution with the firearm industry?

No, but for the pharma companies part in the mental illness epidemic.

[schuss]

Nope. I can put myself in your shoes, but honestly dude, disconnecting from the news for a while puts this all in perspective. With what it does to you sympathetic nervous system, its a drug, the news is a mind altering drug. You can read whats going on in the world without exposing yourself to that. I have huge amounts of empathy for human suffering, and for those I encounter face to face who share their own vulnerability and emotions. Many in this thread start from the perspective that those who disagree with them have no possible reason to do so other than insanity and that is a mind numbing and mind closing way to go through the world.

Doubtful. You are clearly so far up your own ass you haven't seen daylight for years.

[leroy jenkins]

Culturally to me it seems like saying one is 'pro 2a' is the same as saying 'from my cold dead hands'. It could just be my read and image search though.

I think its like saying that you're "not anti vax" before any criticism of anythign even remotely connected to that cus you have to virtue signal certain things or else there is zero chance anyone will evnl listen to you.

Of course the pro 2a thing started with politicians with anti gun voting records that had to assert they're pro 2a because somewhere one of their relatives has a shotgun and they shot it once.