Telemark Questions

[SoVT Joey]

So I bought a pair of boots. Scarpa TX pros. And now I have to figure out which binding to get. I’ve been reading a bunch of reviews. And think I want to go tele tech. So the question is which is better, Meidjo or TTS? With the TTS can I use any tech toe that I have and then just purchase the heel set up? Anyone have any other input for binding choice? I have been looking at the outlaw x but I feel like it limits uphill a little compared to the tech toe systems, but then again I have no idea and could use some guidance.

[Danno]

Peruvian is on meidjos, I think.

I'm old school with my rotte freedoms but am interested in getting a tech toe binding.

[Toddball]

Have you tele'd before, or is this your first setup? Are you going to tele inbounds at all? How long are your tours, and are you more worried about keeping up with your partners on the uphill or downhill? Do you want a reliable release or no? Did you leave the Lynx off your list on purpose?

Unless this setup is almost exclusively for touring, I'd avoid TTS. I say "almost", because no matter what binding you decide on, you should definitely put in some time in the resort to learn how to tele.

I swap between Outlaw X and Lynx on the same pair of touring skis, and I prefer the Outlaw X for inbounds and short tours. The Outlaw X has noticeably more torsional slop in the toe interface than the Lynx now that I've put 30+ days on my TX Pros, which were used demo boots when I got them. The edge hold is still good, though, and I like how they flex, so they're still my favorite tele binding.

[SoVT Joey]

Thanks Danno!! I’ll get ahold of him!!

Toddball, thanks. Yes. First setup. Never made a tele turn before. I forgot to mention the lynx. Though the deals seem to be better on the Meidjo. I’ll definitely be inbounds for a minute to learn. Tours will vary and to be honest, I’ll probably still alpine if I’m trying to get some where nasty.

the Meidjo did interest me more with the heel pin adapter to switch to alpine if necessary.

what do you ski for a ski? I was thinking about a black crows captis, which is narrow compared to my DD at 107. It seems to have a decent radius though and playful enough.

[Peruvian]

I love my Meidjos. I ski them inbounds and out. Obviously great for touring and they have a nice smooth spring compression for the down.

TTS is very finicky in that the distance back from the toe is critical and if you get it wrong you can bottom out the springs which is no bueno. Laps felt they were too active and stiff and I believe he has stopped using them.

Lynx has several versions out these days and a few options for plate stiffness. Older versions have had issues with plates cracking. It particularly nice to only have 8 holes (vs 13 for Meidjo) and ease of swapping if you decided to get Outlaws.

[Toddball]

Thanks Danno!! I’ll get ahold of him!!

Toddball, thanks. Yes. First setup. Never made a tele turn before. I forgot to mention the lynx. Though the deals seem to be better on the Meidjo. I’ll definitely be inbounds for a minute to learn. Tours will vary and to be honest, I’ll probably still alpine if I’m trying to get some where nasty.

the Meidjo did interest me more with the heel pin adapter to switch to alpine if necessary.

what do you ski for a ski? I was thinking about a black crows captis, which is narrow compared to my DD at 107. It seems to have a decent radius though and playful enough.

If you're starting with an undrilled ski, or can otherwise make the Meidjo mount fit, that's probably the way to go. I haven't skied them, but have heard many experiences like Peruvian's above. It seems like they are by far the most popular tele binding in Europe for all applications except racing.

My Outlaw/Lynx skis are Moment Meridian Tours, in 181cm (I'm 5'9"/175cm tall, 135lbs/60kg). Dimensions are 137-107-127mm, 21m radius, -5cm mount, a little under 1800g/ski. I like that they're pretty loose, but carve medium-radius turns pretty well when they're on edge--makes it easy and enjoyable to either carve or skid turns. I think you would be fine with anything up to whatever you think is a reasonable DD width.

[BCMtnHound]

TX Pros with old freerides inbound (on old Mantras), and just set up my TTS with Zeds on some G3 slayers. Along with the zeds, I picked up some long tour cartridges from voile as my previous TTS setup had regular cartridges and, as noted, with my mondo30 would bottom out and just generally too active. Made sure to use inserts on the TTS plate so I can still fiddle with the wire location but otherwise happy with a dozen tours on them so far this season. Ramp angle on the zeds so much better than my previous setup with rad 2.0 - needed toe shims to make the angle bearable. No shims needed with the zeds.

For inbounds I would look into 22designs NTN for a new setup even though I’ve been happy with my freerides.

[bodywhomper]

I’ve been teleing since 1995, I was 19. Pretty good and strong alpine skier. I learned on beefy leather tele boots. I can make tele turns on small light plastic boots, xcd gear, and skate gear, but I prefer beefie boots. Transitioned (partially) this season to ntn and am happily using tx comps, which took a little break-in time. Outlaw x and rotte freedoms.

5’10”; 155lbs. I typically ski a longer length than would be suggested for tele and seem to like metal and going fast. I’m using the same length that i would use if I was on fixed heel gear. Typical, the suggestion is to go down a size.

Skis used (and enjoyed) this season by me:
179 liberty vmt76
184 mantra (full camber)
184 bibby
185 dps wailer95 flex3 (mainly for touring)

[SoVT Joey]

Thanks guys. I guess it’s between the Meidjo and the Lynx and might come to a coin toss. The heel pin adapter is a great idea on the Meidjo, but if I’m somewhere that high risk, I really should be on alpine skis and deserve to struggle. The Lynx seems like it checks every box, the 8 holes I see as a bonus regardless over the 13 and being able to switch to a outlaw would be sweet as well. And the Lynx being more metal and made in the USA put it a couple notches higher.

Toddball I know you said you have them and like the outlaw more you said for inbounds but is the difference that noticeable between the outlaw and Lynx you would say outlaw over the Lynx? I’m really drawn to tele tech just due to touring ability and I hate frame binding pivot points and see the outlaw and all the non tech as pivoting the same as a frame binding.

Skis really seem to be all over the place with what people like. I’m typically a heavy metal type guy but I have been playing a lot on my Atris, which lead me to the captis only solely based on people saying they like narrower skis for tele, but I’m starting to realize it is probably fine to stay wider because that’s what I’m used to and like. I was thinking something rocker-camber-rocker, but that mention of the cambered mantra got me thinking that I should just get a Corvus 183 and send it.

[Peruvian]

FWIW - I think it’s well worth demo’ing the M and the Lynx before purchase. I suspect next season will have 2 tele-fests right in your neighborhood (Bromley and Magic) that you will be able to test them side by side.

[beeshbeesh]

And the Tele spreads!

Tele skis, in my experience, are more fun when they are on the softer side of medium and have a radius at 20m or less. (Enjoy the carving ) Weight and width are a toss up depending on your location and how much you tour, but it’s easier to get away with a one ski quiver when you Tele imo.

Outlaw X is the best inbounds biased bang for your buck binding.

Lynx is coming out with a new flex plate this year which should finally make it officially better than meijo.

Have fun!

[bodywhomper]

I didn’t know that the tx-pro’s had tech fittings for the heels.

[Toddball]

Thanks guys. I guess it’s between the Meidjo and the Lynx and might come to a coin toss. The heel pin adapter is a great idea on the Meidjo, but if I’m somewhere that high risk, I really should be on alpine skis and deserve to struggle. The Lynx seems like it checks every box, the 8 holes I see as a bonus regardless over the 13 and being able to switch to a outlaw would be sweet as well. And the Lynx being more metal and made in the USA put it a couple notches higher.

Toddball I know you said you have them and like the outlaw more you said for inbounds but is the difference that noticeable between the outlaw and Lynx you would say outlaw over the Lynx? I’m really drawn to tele tech just due to touring ability and I hate frame binding pivot points and see the outlaw and all the non tech as pivoting the same as a frame binding.

Skis really seem to be all over the place with what people like. I’m typically a heavy metal type guy but I have been playing a lot on my Atris, which lead me to the captis only solely based on people saying they like narrower skis for tele, but I’m starting to realize it is probably fine to stay wider because that’s what I’m used to and like. I was thinking something rocker-camber-rocker, but that mention of the cambered mantra got me thinking that I should just get a Corvus 183 and send it.

You've outlined exactly the reasons I went with the Lynx in the first place: metal, made in USA, easily swappable with Outlaw. I agree that the heel pin thing on the Meidjo seems a bit gimmicky, given how easy it is to make alpine turns on modern tele gear.

The main difference I feel between the Outlaw and the Lynx is in the flex. For how deep I like to drop my knee, and how stiff I want the binding to feel when I get there, the Outlaw gets there a bit more smoothly and with less toe crunch than the Lynx. That said, I skied the Lynx inbounds a bunch of days this season and felt good on them. I had a few issues with flex plates cracking, but 22 Designs was quick to send out updated plates. Hopefully this latest version of the flex plates solves the durability issue. I also had some issues with claws popping off while in ski mode--reasonably high up a volcano, no less--but haven't had these problems since breaking in the new flex plates. Ultimately, all the fuss with changing out plates, plus the allure of brakes, convinced me to try Outlaws; now I like their flex slightly better than the Lynx.

[dschane]

One more data point for you - I'm on Lynx mostly and Outlaw occasionally. I tried Meidjo 1/2 dozen times. I played in the TTS sandbox a lot before Lynx/Meidjo emerged.

I love 22D's stuff and their customer service. The Lynx has been going through some growing pains, but it's still my preferred version and the growing pains I've experience were all fairly minor. I expect that the 2022-23 version will have ironed out most of the kinks (nothing is ever perfect) and will offer some options for different flexes for those that prefer less stiffness. If you're going to buy in the used market, I would not get a version before 2021-22 (the springs on the 2021-22 toes are shiny silver, so if the springs are dark metal, they're older and I wouldn't buy them, unless you're looking at under $100). But, the 2021-22 version will likely not change much other than the flex and main plates, so if you can find those, it will be easy to upgrade/swap next year.

Meidjo is solid and there are a lot of happy folks on them. The number of holes and the number of moving parts had me concerned, but it skis very well. The only recurring problem that I'm still aware of is snow buildup, but I think the newer binding has minimized that.

As noted already, if you're mostly inbounds, Outlaws make the most sense.

The key to TTS is to mix and match parts until you find what works best for you. That proved elusive to me because when I was using them, there weren't any springs with sufficient travel - I would bottom them out often enough that something would bend or break. Today, Voile came out with some springs that are long enough and stiff enough to work very well (to me, they were pretty similar to how Lynx skis). For the set up, I personally really like the Kreuzspitze plates with Dynafit toes and the new Voile long springs. None of that stuff is cheap and I'm so happy touring with the Lynx, I'm not sure how much use it will get. Next year, Voile is supposedly coming out with a better system (mostly, their toes suck on the current version). The original OMG plates and heels are solid, but I don't think they ever dialed in their toe pieces (those things would release even in lock/tour mode), so if I went the OMG route, I would get only the "conversion kit" and buy a set of Dynafit toes.

Cheers.

[bio-smear]

but if I’m somewhere that high risk, I really should be on alpine skis and deserve to struggle.

You have the right attitude already. Have fun!!

[Danno]

Lynx doesn't have brakes, right? So if you want tech toe tele with brakes, that leaves you with Meidjo?

[dschane]

Lynx doesn't have brakes, right? So if you want tech toe tele with brakes, that leaves you with Meidjo?

Correct (or maybe TTS with those ATK toes that have brakes, if they still are even around?).

[Peruvian]

Joey - listen to dschane. He knows his shit.

[andy m]

Joey, if I were you, I would stick with TTS or Meidjo, and maybe Outlaw if you were skiing mostly at the area. I've skied all of the bindings mentioned, and IMO Meidjo has the best tele "feel" of the NTN bindings -- although that may not be an issue for you as a new tele skier.

TTS makes sense if you have some tech toes, and I like how TTS skis once it's dialed in. I second dschane on the Kreuzspitze plates. They accept most tech toes, and they allow relatively easy adjustment for level of activity (i.e., distance from tech pins to cable hinge point) -- they're also on sale now on skimo.co. Also as mentioned, get the long travel springs from Voile.

I've had problems with the Outlaw and Lynx. I'm usually a big fan of 22 Designs, but I've had Outlaw toe plates crack and I had a Lynx duckbutt claw release w/o warning in a no-fall zone -- I've never had a similar potentially dangerous failure happen to me with any other tele or AT binding in over 40 years. Although they keep "improving" the Lynx, the newest version has problems too. If Black Diamond had produced a binding with all these problems, they would have received no end of shit, but there have only been the usual platitudes from most Lynx users. Maybe next year's version will solve the problems.

[aBradAbroad]

At the risk of hijacking this thread, but seems relevant, has anyone had any experience with rust build-up on the inside of the plastic housing for their meidjo's? I have the 3.0 and like the ride but the rust appearance makes me nervous. Also, has anyone here befoire fixed a squeaky meidjo? Mine make a slight noise at the start of the flex.

[dschane]

I've had problems with the Outlaw and Lynx. I'm usually a big fan of 22 Designs, but I've had Outlaw toe plates crack and I had a Lynx duckbutt claw release w/o warning in a no-fall zone -- I've never had a similar potentially dangerous failure happen to me with any other tele or AT binding in over 40 years. Although they keep "improving" the Lynx, the newest version has problems too. If Black Diamond had produced a binding with all these problems, they would have received no end of shit, but there have only been the usual platitudes from most Lynx users. Maybe next year's version will solve the problems.

My only quibble here is that I've probably had 100 days on Lynx this year and something similar last year. I probably had a range of issues on ~ 5 outings. My AT ski partners probably had a range of issues on a set of different 5 outings. In the lightweight binding world, I think perfection is elusive. Excellence, however, is here. And for tele folks, that's Meidjo, Lynx, and TTS. They all have different pros/cons and one data point from me or someone else doesn't necessarily eliminate one over another.

[jmedslc]

I’ll throw it out there that I’ve got a pretty fresh set of Lynx for sale on gearswap. Holla if you wanna grab them.