OFFICIAL MLB 2022 THREAD

[BmillsSkier]

Not being disingenuous at all. Omar, Bonds, A-rod, Schilling, Pete... they're all the best at what they did, they're also bad PR for MLB and giving them flowers would mean they'd have to answer questions about how could MLB (or the BBWAA) separate the player on the field from the behavior off of it.

The NFL seems to do it year in year out without any issue (cough, Ray Lewis) and they go on to celebrate their guys come HoF time and many years afterwards.

The pearl clutching in MLB or the writers' booth in this day and age is quaint.

[Supermoon]

I’d rather have the dopers and gamblers in the HOF than the wife beaters and child support delinquents, personally…

[BmillsSkier]

I’d rather have the dopers and gamblers in the HOF than the wife beaters and child support delinquents, personally…

This is gonna be hell sorting them all out, not that I disagree with you at all.

I just think, if we take the "character clause" away, and look straight at the on-field play, you'd have a much clearer picture of the hall of very good and the hall of fame and who's getting into each.

[Supermoon]

Yeah. Definitely agree that it should probably be on field actions unless it’s something really bad like an OJ situation or like the Black Sox actively throwing games.

I get why Rose is out since he hasn’t been reinstated to the league (whether that’s the right call who knows), but the steroid era is what it is, and players are generally judged among their generation when it comes to HOF worthiness. Barry Bonds may not hit 72 HRs without the juice, but he’s probably still HOF caliber without them.

[BmillsSkier]

Devil's advocate: Pete hit the same damned ball 4,256 times in play without juice and didn't bet on the Reds (as far as anyone can tell). He doesn't age well in our modern standards for sure (or even decent standards if some shit about him is true) but there's some top-notch assholes and deviants in the hall.

The question remains: are the BBWWAA morality judges or baseball writers?

[Supermoon]

Yeah. Pete was such a prick that he doesn’t really have any friends pushing hard for him inside MLB as far as I can tell. Being an asshole is fine until you need a favor

[ex-powderbroker]

Pete Rose dismissed questions on Sunday about his first appearance on the field in Philadelphia since the franchise scrapped plans in 2017 to honor him because of a woman's allegation that baseball's hit king had sex with her when she was a minor.

"It was 55 years ago, babe," Rose told a female baseball writer for The Philadelphia Inquirer.

i don’t really see why i should care about what he did on the field, he’s just some asshole from before my time.

[alias_rice]

Speaking of Pete, I need a Pete like player that didn’t get banned from baseball or bang 15 year olds.

I coach my kid’s 11U team and we want to have traveling trophy that goes to the hardest nose kid each year. The kid that runs out ground balls, wears hbp, always backing up, etc. Basically the kid that plays like Pete. But I can’t give out the Pete Rose trophy. My first thought is Chase Utley. But I’m open to ideas.

[Supermoon]

George Brett only shit his pants. Maybe him?

[fatnslow]

Speaking of Pete, I need a Pete like player that didn’t get banned from baseball or bang 15 year olds.

I coach my kid’s 11U team and we want to have traveling trophy that goes to the hardest nose kid each year. The kid that runs out ground balls, wears hbp, always backing up, etc. Basically the kid that plays like Pete. But I can’t give out the Pete Rose trophy. My first thought is Chase Utley. But I’m open to ideas.

Why don't you just embrace Charlie Hustle and give the winning kid a lottery ticket instead of a trophy ?

[BmillsSkier]

Why don't you just embrace Charlie Hustle and give the winning kid a lottery ticket instead of a trophy ?

Charlie Hustle is exactly what I was thinking

[Danno]

Re the Rolen debate, Peter Gammons wrote this on the Athletic today:

Rolen is not simply a no-doubt member of what Tom Seaver called “the most exclusive club in America,” but is one of the 10 best third basemen to ever play the game [and] voting for Rolen was absolutely the right thing to do.

[Woodsy]

10 best all time?
Again Boggs and Brett. my boy Beltre. Edgar Martinez, Moilitor? sure there were some other good ones before my time. but sure whatever. Danno the Mets are having an employment open house @ citi field next weekend if you are interested.

[Danno]

It's his words not mine. And while I don't always agree with Gammons, it's not like he's a hack who has no idea of baseball history; he's forgotten more about baseball than you or I know.

According to baseball reference, Rolen is 10th all time in WAR for 3B. Those ahead of him are, in order, Schmidt, Eddie Mathews, Boggs, Beltre, Brett, Chipper Jones, Brooks Robinson, Santo, Molitor. Look at this list: https://www.baseball-reference.com/l.../jaws_3B.shtml I think you'd be hard pressed to make an argument that anyone below him on the list was actually better than him (Edgar was a better hitter, but I don't even really consider Edgar a third baseman, considering he only had 3 seasons of over 100 games at third). If you sort that list by oWAR, he's 17th. If you sort by dWAR, he's 6th.

And I have a job and zero desire to be anywhere NYC.

[Brock Landers]

Gammons and Jayson Stark are both fanboys who would vote everyone in if possible. Not as much as Tim Kurkjian.
@woodsy Chipper Jones M Schmidt Brooks Robinson David Wright

[Woodsy]

Let's say we agree with WAR as the only indicator, and I agree its a good one, do we really need the 10th best 3B all time in the Hall of Fame right now, knowing hes likely going to get bumped off by Ramirez, Machado, Arenado, etc in a few years?
I agree with Jeff Kent and others, the system is broken.

But hey, I will still go back when Kershaw gets in and enjoy the upstates.

[Brock Landers]

Will Kershaw get in?

[Woodsy]

Will Kershaw get in?

If he doesn't, it makes the 2017 Series even more of a travesty...

[Danno]

A sport that's been around for over 100 years, and you're asking if we really need the 10th best of all time in the Hall? Yes, of course we do. That's a completely ridiculous question driven by your preconceived notion that he doesn't belong.

For reference, here's the 10th best at other positions (and notable people who fall below that line)

1B: Palmeiro (Willie McCovey, Eddie Murray, Tony Perez, Hank Greenberg, Harmon Killebrew)
2B: Robinson Cano (Jackie Fucking Robinson, Ryne Sandberg, Jeff Kent, Chase Utley, Lou Whitaker, Roberto Alomar, Craig Biggio)
SS: Jeter (Allen Trammel, Barry Larkin, Derek Jeter, Pee Wee Reese, Phil Rizzuto)
LF: Fred Clarke (Willie Stargell, Ralph Kiner, Jim Rice, Lou Brock)
CF: Duke Snider (Richie Ashburn, Andre Dawson, Kirby Puckett,
RF: Reggie Jackson (Larry Walker, Shoeless Joe, Tony Gwynn, Ichiro, Sammy Sosa, Dave Winfield, Vlad Guerrero
C: Ted Simmons (Mickey Cochrane, Buster Posey, Roy Campanella, Yadier Molina)

[BmillsSkier]

Obligatory Jeter isn't the 10th best at anything comment

[ex-powderbroker]

the old stadium was so much better

[smmokan]

No more MLB Network on YouTubeTV… fucking Google. Conveniently they didn’t mention the price decrease as a result of cutting it from the streaming package.

[Woodsy]

It's his words not mine. And while I don't always agree with Gammons, it's not like he's a hack who has no idea of baseball history; he's forgotten more about baseball than you or I know.

According to baseball reference, Rolen is 10th all time in WAR for 3B. Those ahead of him are, in order, Schmidt, Eddie Mathews, Boggs, Beltre, Brett, Chipper Jones, Brooks Robinson, Santo, Molitor. Look at this list: https://www.baseball-reference.com/l.../jaws_3B.shtml I think you'd be hard pressed to make an argument that anyone below him on the list was actually better than him (Edgar was a better hitter, but I don't even really consider Edgar a third baseman, considering he only had 3 seasons of over 100 games at third). If you sort that list by oWAR, he's 17th. If you sort by dWAR, he's 6th.

I agree stats are a big part of baseball and I remember my grandpa looking up Box scores in the back of the paper as a kid but there is a 3rd baseman that exemplifies my point about hall of FAME, not hall of stats. Chris Fkn Sabo.

You all have heard of him right, you have an image in your mind of his ugly spectacled face. most baseball fans in their 40s & 50s def remember him well He got a few all stars, ROY, but talk about a season? He and that Reds team in 1990 SWEEPING the "unbeatable" A's & that year he led the club in home runs, doubles and runs scored. His two-run homer in Game 4 of the NLCS helped the Reds defeat the Pittsburgh Pirates to get there. He hit .563 during the World Series including a homer and three RBI during Game 3 versus the A's. Thats a guy who should be in the HOF. In fact he is in the Reds HOF, not Rolen. Put guys in the hall who have a story, who are remembered. thats my point

[Brock Landers]

I remember Sabo more for the rec specs than anything

[ex-powderbroker]

the list of modern day hall of famers that were out of baseball by 35 is like one person long.