Ukraine

[rod9301]

A- They need weapons to slow the decay of the their human resources and to kill many more Russians with the forces they have while remanning. . The offensive needs to ramp up against Russian infrastructure and supply routes. Moar Killer Drones please.

B- Did you catch where Putin said Hitler took Poland when Poland wouldn't politely hand over parts of Poland so Hitler had no choice? That was a cool tell

C- IMO retaking Crimea will definitely stress Putin and que sera, sera.

Not clear that supplying more weapons will mean less Ukrainians killed.

We already supplied a lot, without much result in 2023.

And Russians have a lot of weapons and still their soldiers are dying.

And from what i read, in addition to weapons, Ukraine needs soldiers and it's not clear where they will get them.

It's time for peace negotiating, and not the kind where Russia is not included.

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[twat]

Not clear that supplying more weapons will mean less Ukrainians killed.

We already supplied a lot, without much result in 2023.

And Russians have a lot of weapons and still their soldiers are dying.

And from what i read, in addition to weapons, Ukraine needs soldiers and it's not clear where they will get them.

It's time for peace negotiating, and not the kind where Russia is not included.

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Yes we need peace, so the cruise missiles will not be disturbed while flying through the night sky.

[jono]

It's always amazing watching what passes for logic when you just want Gazprom to pay another dividend.

Like this one time rod wanted to go skiing on the other side of the state and he bought his car a gallon of gas but the engine quit an hour out of town. He never could figure out why. He gave it all that gas and it quit anyway, so he hitchhiked home.

[rod9301]

It's always amazing watching what passes for logic when you just want Gazprom to pay another dividend.

Like this one time rod wanted to go skiing on the other side of the state and he bought his car a gallon of gas but the engine quit an hour out of town. He never could figure out why. He gave it all that gas and it quit anyway, so he hitchhiked home.

Have no idea what you're talking about.

And the war is at a stalemate, so not negotiating for peace simply means the more people will die.

And people are delusional if they believe the Russia will give Crimea back.

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[jono]

Oh you're totally making sense. I mean look at how much skiing that gallon of gas got you: none! Buying more after that would have just been stupid, right?

How's the dividend these days? Still paying out from those record profits or did they put your capital to work for the Russian war machine? Hopefully saved a little for rebuilding refineries.

[MultiVerse]

Rod and xyz are so soaked in Russian propaganda that they still ignore the fact Putin said in the Tucker interview he still wants all of Ukraine, parts of Poland, and the Baltic states too.

Western weapons are Europe’s only hope because let's face it most NATO countries without the United States are incapable of defending themselves. Putin thinks the wind is in his sails with American aid stalled, an American presidential candidate willing to abandon Europe, and an army of useful idiot apologists in the West working hard to prevent any sort of backlash.

There is no Russian disinfo so ridiculous that these people won't swallow it whole, including the idea Russian can't be defeated:

[Toadman]

There is no Russian disinfo so ridiculous that these people won't swallow it whole, including the idea Russian can't be defeated:

Russian pilots texting and taxiing for the win.

[summit]

xyz doesn't understand force multipliers

[riser4]

xyz doesn't understand force multipliers

Probably barely understands forceps and pliers.

[The Reverend Floater]

Rod and xyz are so soaked in Russian propaganda that they still ignore the fact Putin said in the Tucker interview he still wants all of Ukraine, parts of Poland, and the Baltic states too.

Western weapons are Europe’s only hope because let's face it most NATO countries without the United States are incapable of defending themselves. Putin thinks the wind is in his sails with American aid stalled, an American presidential candidate willing to abandon Europe, and an army of useful idiot apologists in the West working hard to prevent any sort of backlash.

There is no Russian disinfo so ridiculous that these people won't swallow it whole, including the idea Russian can't be defeated:

I don't disagree with the spirit of your post but let's be honest. Pretty sure Russia would have its hands full against UK, Germany, Sweden, France and Poland. Throw in the Dutch and Norway for good measure and I'm not convinced they're going down. Hell, I'd be curious to see what the UK, Sweden and Germany could do by their lonesome after seeing how poor the commies have faired against our Ukes.

To be clear, I wouldn't want to see it without some good old American firepower involved, but still...

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[MultiVerse]

Folks probably need to update their prior beliefs on NATO capabilities. Too much attention is paid to technology & weapons systems, and not enough on people. It's not even about spending per se. The money that is being spent in Europe is on bloated weapons systems and high personnel costs.

Not enough is allocated towards actual combat capability. Not enough on ops, maintenance, and ammo. Combat training is a joke. Most NATO countries do not have an effective fighting force—at all. The overarching thinking in Europe is: why bother?, war on the continent is over. Most Europeans believe there's going to be a negotiated truce and then back to business as usual with Russia.

Just look at Rod's poll from the previous page. They'd rather surrender Ukraine and their own country rather than fight. There are no European warriors except in Ukraine. Ukraine has by far and away the most combat capable military in Europe. No other European country comes close. Only the United States is more capable.

[The Reverend Floater]

Folks probably need to update their prior beliefs on NATO capabilities. Too much attention is paid to technology & weapons systems, and not enough on people. It's not even about spending per se. The money that is being spent in Europe is on bloated weapons systems and high personnel costs.

Not enough is allocated towards actual combat capability. Not enough on ops, maintenance, and ammo. Combat training is a joke. Most NATO countries do not have an effective fighting force—at all. The overarching thinking in Europe is: why bother?, war on the continent is over. Most Europeans believe there's going to be a negotiated truce and then back to business as usual with Russia.

Just look at Rod's poll from the previous page. They'd rather surrender Ukraine and their own country rather than fight. There are no European warriors except in Ukraine. Ukraine has by far and away the most combat capable military in Europe. No other European country comes close. Only the United States is more capable.

You could be right. I wouldn't admittedly know. I do know my operator buddy said some of the baddest dudes he worked with in Afghanistan were Dutch and Brit special forces. He said the Dutch were particularly efficient and ruthless.

I wouldn't want to go up against Germany in a modern, protracted war. Their manufacturing infrastructure would be tough to match.


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[MultiVerse]

The dominate thinking in Europe today is that military spending is obsolete because war in Europe is obsolete. From their point of view military capability is only for adventurism in places like Afghanistan so it's better just to avoid it.

Meanwhile Ukrainian cities in Europe are being struck by Iranian drones, and soon missiles. Iranian drones, missiles, and torpedoes are attacking commercial shipping—mostly bound for Europe—with zero Eurofighter missions, zero air defense ships in the Red Sea, and zero repercussions on Iran. Europeans are instead still appeasing Iran. Germany refuses to send TAURUS missiles to Ukraine and France refuses to restart long range missile production.

Europe alone could easily outproduce Russia, but like 25% of Americans, they increasingly lack the will to support the fight against the enemies of freedom.

[grinch]

Probably barely understands forceps and pliers.

Haa, well played

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[riser4]

Haa, well played

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I'll be here all week.

[The Reverend Floater]

Haa, well played

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I also really enjoyed it. It's the little things that keep me coming back to TGR.

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[Viva]

An interesting opinion comes from Gen. Ben Hodges, who believes Ukraine won't lose even if promised support never arrives. He claims that Russia is much weaker than she appears. I sort of agree, but I'm watching carefully- in particular, how do we precisely define what we mean by "winning."

https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/...38230569836766

Regardless, I don't see Ukraine capitulating under any scenario.

So far, ongoing piecemeal gifts from the various European nations are enough to keep Ukraine in the fight, and Russia seems to have no real ability to maneuver. Russia is limited to grinding advances, and would probably require a whole year to take a major city. But Russia still has something like half million troops in country. Of course, they suck and they're not mobile, and Russian supply is limited to about 40 Km from supply railheads and those 40 Km are under drone surveillance. Still, these forces can't be neglected.

This sorta "slow grind" doctrine is unsophisticated, but, to date, Ukraine seems unable to counter it. A lot depends on the West following through, or on Russia experiencing an economic collapse. Even if Ukraine plays the odds and wins, there's a risk of tremendous casualties under such a scenario.

Neilsen argues that it could go either way in 2024. So, a lot is riding on Western aid, Ukraine's ability to figure out her manpower problem, and whether or not his estimate that Russian production has peaked is accurate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJK5NYxGNOQ

Oh, whoever stated earlier (vide supra) that this conflict is in a stalemate, doesn't understand the meaning of "stalemate".

[jono]

Just look at Rod's poll from the previous page.

Let's take a step back on that poll. The extremes were both tiny minorities and plenty of maroons are trying to lump their preferred side in with the giant middle to claim things like "70% of people think..." Nonsense. The poll was conducted only in countries where the ECFR has offices and only offered 3 poorly-selected choices.

[highangle]

An interesting opinion comes from Gen. Ben Hodges, who believes Ukraine won't lose even if promised support never arrives. He claims that Russia is much weaker than she appears. I sort of agree, but I'm watching carefully- in particular, how do we precisely define what we mean by "winning."

https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/...38230569836766

Regardless, I don't see Ukraine capitulating under any scenario.

So far, ongoing piecemeal gifts from the various European nations are enough to keep Ukraine in the fight, and Russia seems to have no real ability to maneuver. Russia is limited to grinding advances, and would probably require a whole year to take a major city. But Russia still has something like half million troops in country. Of course, they suck and they're not mobile, and Russian supply is limited to about 40 Km from supply railheads and those 40 Km are under drone surveillance. Still, these forces can't be neglected.

This sorta "slow grind" doctrine is unsophisticated, but, to date, Ukraine seems unable to counter it. A lot depends on the West following through, or on Russia experiencing an economic collapse. Even if Ukraine plays the odds and wins, there's a risk of tremendous casualties under such a scenario.

Neilsen argues that it could go either way in 2024. So, a lot is riding on Western aid, Ukraine's ability to figure out her manpower problem, and whether or not his estimate that Russian production has peaked is accurate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJK5NYxGNOQ

Oh, whoever stated earlier (vide supra) that this conflict is in a stalemate, doesn't understand the meaning of "stalemate".

At what point did you forget that winning is Russia back in its pre-2014 borders with a free and democratic Ukraine, a nation of laws, subsequently rebuilding and joining the EU and NATO?

It's rather a sine qua non, but Gen Hodges [who i believe lives in Germany] isn't hearing it enough. Zelensky and Biden just need to enunciate it often enough so everyone can hear.
Germany btw keeps dragging feet and failing to lead.
Russian control of key German influencers is almost as bad as America, though. And in the recent past it has been even worse. What to do? Recognize that fasci 5th Column fronts are a Putin specialty, and fight them within the limits of wartime democracy, rather than conflicted peacetime democracy. War is upon us.

[ötzi]

Ukraine can't hope to win a war of atttrition but they can keep it engaged and bogged down and sneak in a big right hook on Crimea and change things bigly. But I've been waiting for a counterpunch for a while.

[m2711c]

they should try sinking some of them north korean ships full of shells...


https://apnews.com/article/north-kor...8310ebdc280d21

[Cisco Kid]

^^^NOW you're talking WWIII. And it's deja vu of WWII

[jono]

They went by trains. Some of them didn't make it.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-uk...20638ca33a5002

[Casey E]

Putins love for his countrymen expressed in charts, from the economist http://How many Russian soldiers hav... The Economist

[ex-powderbroker]

i don’t want any russian soldiers to be killed in ukraine.

which is why it is best for peace if they withdraw everyone and stop their unnecessary war of expansion.