Ukraine

[jono]

Yea I spent 5 seconds
thinking about what I type and who I’m directing it towards

Do you?

You mean as many as five or more than five? But yes, I do. I'm not always so respectful when I see someone announcing his error, but I see you being pretty respectful, albeit perhaps a bit overbutthurt, and responded in kind because I don't think you have to be a bad-faith asshole just because you've been wrong about one thing or another. Many people are, but I haven't seen that from you. So yes, at least 5 seconds were spent.

[Cisco Kid]

I aligned myself with MAGA.

When you make statements you’re saying it to me

Think about that. If your capable of “Thinking”


iPhone Tapatalk

I'm curious. Which word would describe your feelings as a MAGA when I say
MAGA = Insurrectionist? Pride, Butthurt or something else?

[MTT]

I'm curious. Which word would describe your feelings as a MAGA if when I say MAGA = Insurrectionist? Pride or Butthurt? Or something else?

I’m not sure what your asking
Which one is it?


iPhone Tapatalk

[summit]

He views MAGA as the Jan 6ers
He wants to know what you view MAGA as when you say you associate your identity with MAGA

I think this is worthy of another thread and is distracting here.

[Cisco Kid]

I see anyone identifying as MAGA also identifying as an Insurrectionist. Insurrectionist. Good thing or Bad thing?

[Mani_UT]

I aligned myself with MAGA.

When you make statements you’re saying it to me

Think about that. If your capable of “Thinking”

If the shoe fits...

[Toadman]

Definitely part of the picture. The most public ones seem to be training infantry, but considering the numbers it wouldn't be surprising if there was one American with every HIMARS unit (they do seem to travel together, so that might just be a handful of people).

I wouldn't be surprised if there was one American with the HIMARS crew and one with the air defense crew assigned to protect against aerial targets.

It seems also that there are not enough Ukrainian tractors to recover all the armor left behind by the Russians.

[highangle]

I see anyone identifying as MAGA also identifying as an Insurrectionist. Insurrectionist. Good thing or Bad thing?

It's simple: You know those kids who died on Iwo Jima? MAGA wants to end that country and install Trump as God-Emperor/Putin Bitch.

MAGA wants what was once America to be Putin's Little Bitch Country.


But you know if you hold a MAGA's head underwater for long enough, they stop being a MAGA, lol.

[highangle]

I wouldn't be surprised if there was one American with the HIMARS crew and one with the air defense crew assigned to protect against aerial targets.

It seems also that there are not enough Ukrainian tractors to recover all the armor left behind by the Russians.

"Make ya a great deal on a tank, only abandoned once, and they left the keys in it!"


Just out of the US Army running HIMARS? $100k for 3 month hitch in UA + citizenship + an opportunity to serve the planet

[4matic]

Russia destroying as many power plants as the can with long range missiles.

[MultiVerse]

Zelensky's response to the Russian punitive attacks on civilian power infrastructure:

Attachment 426143

[4matic]

I aligned myself with MAGA.

When you make statements you’re saying it to me

Think about that. If your capable of “Thinking”


iPhone Tapatalk

Accurate:

“They want to vent anger over their lives—their personal problems, their haunted sense of inferiority, and their fears about social status—on other Americans, as vehemently as possible, even to the point of violence.”

https://www.theatlantic.com/newslett...-world/671355/

[summit]

Zelensky's response to the Russian punitive attacks on civilian power infrastructure:

Attachment 426143

FuckinA!

[LongShortLong]

Seems like a good time tell the Russian guys about quiet quitting.

Ha!

re: Maga - I believe a useful, careful discussion can be had. However that discussion sits on a narrow pedestal with steep cliffs to poliass, so said discussion requires care. Best to try in another thread lest we fail to maintain decency. To add - I don't think it's entirely off-topic here, as fundamental misunderstanding between people is a factor in Russia's war, as are strongly held conflicting beliefs. It's just too big a topic and too close to political to usefully explore here.

[rod9301]

A recent report in Ukrainian news outlet Ukrayinska Pravda, quoting officials from the Ukrainian president’s office, claimed that talks between Ukraine and Russia have stopped due to pressure exerted by UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson during his unannounced visit to Kiev on April 9.

According to the report, Johnson came to Kiev on a surprise visit apparently to “express solidarity” and announce financial and military aid to Ukraine in its fight against Russian aggression. However, during his meeting with Zelensky, Johnson asked him not to continue with the talks which were going on in Turkey, asserting that Putin needs to be defeated.

Zelensky’s public position on talks with Russia shifted dramatically following this visit. Only a few days prior to the visit, Zelensky had proclaimed that there is no alternative to talks with Russia. He had declared the necessity of the talks even amidst the international outcry over the alleged mass killings in Bucha.

During the last physical round of talks between both the countries in Istanbul in late March, Russia had claimed that Ukraine was ready to consider its demand of Ukrainian neutrality. The Russians had also said there were talks of a possible meeting between Zelensky and Russian president Vladimir Putin.

Russia had earlier alleged that the talks were stalled due to Western pressure. Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov alleged in late April that Ukraine had taken the decision to stall the talks on the advice of “American and British colleagues”. Putin had announced “deadlock” in the talks and said that the West, instead of finding a solution to the conflict, has been aiding the war with the objective of prolonging it at the cost of the Ukrainian people.

Consistent NATO backing through arms supplies has also led to the hardening of Zelensky’s public stand on the talks. On Friday, he proclaimed that talks with Russia will only resume after Russian troops withdraw from Ukraine completely and “return” all those Ukrainians who have been evacuated to Russia.

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[Bunion 2020]

Ha!

re: Maga - I believe a useful, careful discussion can be had. However that discussion sits on a narrow pedestal with steep cliffs to poliass, so said discussion requires care. Best to try in another thread lest we fail to maintain decency. To add - I don't think it's entirely off-topic here, as fundamental misunderstanding between people is a factor in Russia's war, as are strongly held conflicting beliefs. It's just too big a topic and too close to political to usefully explore here.

Here ya go.

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...41#post6684641

You won't go blind, I promise. Just post until you need glasses.

[Casey E]

A crack in Putins bubble? Hope this is true

“Ukraine’s offensive has caught the Kremlin off-guard and left it struggling to find a response. Pro-war Russian military bloggers are livid about Russia’s humiliation. They blame Russia’s generals; its defence minister, Sergei Shoigu; and increasingly Mr Putin himself. Igor Girkin, an ultra-nationalist who led Russia’s offensive in Donbas in 2014, predicted a complete defeat for Russian troops. “We have already lost, the rest is just a matter of time,” he told his nearly half-million subscribers on Telegram, a messaging platform popular among Russian military watchers. Michael Kofman, an expert at cna, a think-tank, noted that the quality of Russian forces was falling and those in combat were not being rotated often enough to avoid exhaustion. “They do not have the manpower to sustain this war”, concluded Mr Kofman.

Mr Putin, meanwhile, seems oblivious to these problems. As Ukrainians fought their way to Izyum on September 10th, he continued with plans to open a grand ferris wheel at vdnkh, a Stalin-era theme park in Moscow. The ferris wheel was the largest in Europe, Mr Putin said, the perfect place for a family retreat. Disgruntled Russian bloggers observed, drily, that the frontlines had shifted so far east that they might be visible from the top. He said nothing of the reverses on the battlefield. Sergei Lavrov, Russia’s foreign minister, projected an air of confidence. Russia might be open to negotiations, he told a Russian television channel, but its adversaries “should understand that the longer they postpone this process, the more difficult it will be for them to negotiate with us”.

For the time being, Ukraine’s leaders believe negotiations are best conducted on the battlefield.”

https://www.economist.com/europe/202...m TheEconomist

When you arrive the top of the Ferris wheel you get to shout “all is calm on the western front!”

[m2711c]

A recent report in Ukrainian news outlet Ukrayinska Pravda, quoting officials from the Ukrainian president’s office, claimed that talks between Ukraine and Russia have stopped due to pressure exerted by UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson during his unannounced visit to Kiev on April 9.

According to the report, Johnson came to Kiev on a surprise visit apparently to “express solidarity” and announce financial and military aid to Ukraine in its fight against Russian aggression. However, during his meeting with Zelensky, Johnson asked him not to continue with the talks which were going on in Turkey, asserting that Putin needs to be defeated.

Zelensky’s public position on talks with Russia shifted dramatically following this visit. Only a few days prior to the visit, Zelensky had proclaimed that there is no alternative to talks with Russia. He had declared the necessity of the talks even amidst the international outcry over the alleged mass killings in Bucha.

During the last physical round of talks between both the countries in Istanbul in late March, Russia had claimed that Ukraine was ready to consider its demand of Ukrainian neutrality. The Russians had also said there were talks of a possible meeting between Zelensky and Russian president Vladimir Putin.

Russia had earlier alleged that the talks were stalled due to Western pressure. Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov alleged in late April that Ukraine had taken the decision to stall the talks on the advice of “American and British colleagues”. Putin had announced “deadlock” in the talks and said that the West, instead of finding a solution to the conflict, has been aiding the war with the objective of prolonging it at the cost of the Ukrainian people.

Consistent NATO backing through arms supplies has also led to the hardening of Zelensky’s public stand on the talks. On Friday, he proclaimed that talks with Russia will only resume after Russian troops withdraw from Ukraine completely and “return” all those Ukrainians who have been evacuated to Russia.

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ok, so? what’s your point?

[MultiVerse]

Rod's article is pro-Russian propaganda that misrepresents its source material. The tagline for the original Ukrainian Pravda article paints a different picture from Rod's and his source:

The peace talks with Russia are the story of how Ukraine has gone from despair to realizing its own strength and its circle of true allies over 70 days of full-scale war.

It's a story about how Ukraine outlined Russia's future defeat:

First, the myth of the "power" of Vladimir Putin and his army is gradually being crushed in the outskirts of Irpin and Rubizhne.

Secondly, the isolationism of the West and its reluctance to really help Ukraine have been finally buried in the mass graves of Bucha, Borodianka and Mariupol.

Excerpts from the source, Ukrainian Pravda, on why talks broke down last April:

But the Russians came to the first round of talks not to talk, but to formalize Ukraine’s surrender.

"To cut a long story short, the essence of that agreement, David [Arakhamia] has it somewhere, is that we [Ukraine] are just giving up. And denazification and the rest [of the Russian side’s demands] are on top of all that",
....

The first thing was the revelation of the atrocities, rapes, murders, massacres, looting, indiscriminate bombings and hundreds and thousands of other war crimes committed by Russian troops in the temporarily occupied Ukrainian territories…

The moral gap, the gap in values, between Putin and the rest of the world is so huge that even the Kremlin doesn’t have a long enough negotiating table to cover it.

As a result, Boris Johnson brought two simple messages to Kyiv. The first is that Putin is a war criminal; he should be pressured, not negotiated with. And the second is that even if Ukraine is ready to sign some agreements on guarantees with Putin, they are not. We can sign [an agreement] with you [Ukraine], but not with him. Anyway, he will screw everyone over.

It's also worth noting that contrary to Rod's claim of "recently emerged" evidence the reporting dates back to last spring.

[jono]

Yeah, there's nothing new there except the Russian change of heart. Where was this "we went to negotiate" attitude last week or last month or back when their troops were (mostly) on their own soil?

[uglymoney]

I think I was just saying this, this morning.

"The fundamental problem, analysts said, is that Mr. Putin’s penchant for misleading his own people is catching up to him. The reality of the Russian setback is poking holes in the Kremlin’s message that the Russian Army is undefeatable, Ukraine is riddled with corruption and cowardice and Mr. Putin is a brilliant geopolitical strategist. It was just last Wednesday that Mr. Putin declared that Russia had “not lost anything” as a result of the war, an assertion at odds with Western estimates of tens of thousands of Russian casualties." "

Russia’s Retreat in Ukraine Pokes Holes in Putin’s Projection of Force https://nyti.ms/3dbTs0N

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[PB]

But, but, but ......NAZIS!!!

[ötzi]

Really looking forward to Rod's investments going to zero as Russia's government and economy implodes.

[rod9301]

Really looking forward to Rod's investments going to zero as Russia's government and economy implodes.

Wtf?
Why would you want this?

Since when debates are not ok?

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[Skistack]

Uh, posting Russian propaganda is not “debate”.


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