Ukraine

[Lvovsky]

Hey, how about you don't insult me?

Just because i like to think for myself?

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Right. And a sovereign country of Ukraine cannot of think for itself and needs to be questioned “why do they want to join Nato”… fuck you have twisted logic.

But the answer to “why Nato” is because they live next to a murderous neighboor. The answer applies to all Eastern Europe countries that joined Nato since the warsaw pack dissolved.

[MTT]

Right. And a sovereign country of Ukraine cannot of think for itself and needs to be questioned “why do they want to join Nato”… fuck you have twisted logic.

But the answer to “why Nato” is because they live next to a murderous neighboor. The answer applies to all Eastern Europe countries that joined Nato since the warsaw pack dissolved.

I have to admit I have been really disappointed with Russia the past 10 years. I thought they would kick ass as a country after the ussr collapse. But then Putin just keeps being in charge. I did not think they would let that happen. Shit people go in ski vacations in Russia. Wtf. How did Russia become a threat to Ukraine or via versa 10 years ago?

[Lvovsky]

Not that I disagree about confirmation feedback and that entire tangent about how we have slack jawed idiots that eat that shit up too, I think what oldnewguy and the rest of you are missing is the level of cognitive dissonance I mentioned a couple pages back was denying what is actually, physically, in your face.

Ukrainian: mom, they’re shelling the city.

Russian mom: no that’s Nazis.

Ukrainian: mom, there’s a tank on the street with a Russian flag

Russian mom: no that’s a false flag.

Ukrainian: [sends mom pic of smoldering Russian tank].

Russian mom: that’s not on your street.

Ukrainian: [sends video of street]

Russian mom: that’s not real.

Ukrainian: mom, yes it’s real.

Russian mom: you’re not my daughter.

Ukrainian: /jaw drops.


What is mind blowing to me is the Baghdad Bob shit that’s happening. Y’all can keep on about how dopes will lap up whatever tells them they’re right, this is my only point.

Yep. I know two people in the “daughter” role in the above. It is fucked beyond believe.

[Lvovsky]

Consider these facts
1. 80% of Russians get their news solely from television - which is controlled by Putin. The token "independent" stations have been shut down.

2. Younger Russians (the 20%) get their news from the internet. Which has also been shut off to outside content.

So unless you have a short-wave radio to pick up BBC, your choice of "news" is state-controlled TV, state-controlled internet or state-controlled radio

I grew up listening to the short wave russian service bbc and voice of america in the late 80’s. Radio is a powerful tool. This generation of russians will have to discover the truth on their own. Iron curtain 2.0

[KQ]

At the entrance to the memorial park in Kyiv, there is a sculpture of an extremely thin girl with a very sad look holding a handful of wheat ears in her hands. Behind her back is the Candle of Remembrance, a monument with details reminiscent of authentic embroidery that can be found on traditional Ukrainian costumes. This is a monument that commemorates a historical event known as the Holodomor.

What is the Holodomor?

After the end of the First World War, Ukraine was an independent state, but in 1919 the Soviet Union "sucked" it into the community of Soviet states. The Ukrainians, who even then considered themselves a Central European people like the Poles and not an Eastern European like the Russians, tried to restore Ukraine's independence.

In 1932, not wanting to lose control of Europe's main granary, Stalin resorted to one of the most heinous forms of terror against one nation. In the process of nationalization, he took away the grain-producing land from the Ukrainian peasants, but also all its offerings, thus creating an artificial famine. The goal was to "teach Ukrainians to be smart" so that they would no longer oppose official Moscow. Thus the people who produced the most grain in Europe were left without a crumb of bread. The peak of the Holodomor was in the spring of 1933. In Ukraine at that time, 17 people died of hunger every minute, more than 1,000 every hour, and almost 24,500 every day! People were literally starving to death in the streets.

Stalin settled the Russian population in the emptied Ukrainian villages. During the next census, there was a large shortage of population. Therefore, the Soviet government annulled the census, destroyed the census documents, and the enumerators were shot or sent to the gulag, in order to completely hide the truth.

World War. Their poison gas was hunger. Their Hitler was Stalin. Their Holocaust was the Holodomor. For them, fascist Berlin was Soviet Moscow, and their concentration camp was the Soviet Union. Today, 28 countries around the world present the Holodomor as genocide against Ukrainians, which you could not learn about in school, because almost all evidence was destroyed and victims were covered up for decades, survivors were forcibly silenced by not having the right to vote until recently.

The Holodomor at that time broke the Ukrainian resistance, but it made the desire for Ukraine's independence from Russia eternal.

[MTT]

^^^i was not thinking about it a lot before this latest atrocity ^^^^
As said before I have met and worked with Ukrainian people

A tough resilient people. Same as Russian people who have settled in this country

These people don’t quit. I just hate this. They are not supposed to be fighting for survival. A year ago they were fighting to be giants in the technology centers and many other things. An awesome first world country

This is not supposed to be happening. !!!

[Lvovsky]

How did Russia become a threat to Ukraine or via versa 10 years ago?

Putins delusional ambition to reinstate ussr land mass and glory.

[highangle]

Putins delusional ambition to reinstate ussr land mass and glory.

He's got an IQ of less than 70 and doesn't remember that Russia invaded Europe 15 days ago and that 20,000+ people have died so far.
He's not going to grasp your subtleties, or reward your efforts in any way. Fetal alcohol syndrome is just a bitch.

[MontuckyFried]

At the entrance to the memorial park in Kyiv, there is a sculpture of an extremely thin girl with a very sad look holding a handful of wheat ears in her hands. Behind her back is the Candle of Remembrance, a monument with details reminiscent of authentic embroidery that can be found on traditional Ukrainian costumes. This is a monument that commemorates a historical event known as the Holodomor.

What is the Holodomor?

After the end of the First World War, Ukraine was an independent state, but in 1919 the Soviet Union "sucked" it into the community of Soviet states. The Ukrainians, who even then considered themselves a Central European people like the Poles and not an Eastern European like the Russians, tried to restore Ukraine's independence.

In 1932, not wanting to lose control of Europe's main granary, Stalin resorted to one of the most heinous forms of terror against one nation. In the process of nationalization, he took away the grain-producing land from the Ukrainian peasants, but also all its offerings, thus creating an artificial famine. The goal was to "teach Ukrainians to be smart" so that they would no longer oppose official Moscow. Thus the people who produced the most grain in Europe were left without a crumb of bread. The peak of the Holodomor was in the spring of 1933. In Ukraine at that time, 17 people died of hunger every minute, more than 1,000 every hour, and almost 24,500 every day! People were literally starving to death in the streets.

Stalin settled the Russian population in the emptied Ukrainian villages. During the next census, there was a large shortage of population. Therefore, the Soviet government annulled the census, destroyed the census documents, and the enumerators were shot or sent to the gulag, in order to completely hide the truth.

World War. Their poison gas was hunger. Their Hitler was Stalin. Their Holocaust was the Holodomor. For them, fascist Berlin was Soviet Moscow, and their concentration camp was the Soviet Union. Today, 28 countries around the world present the Holodomor as genocide against Ukrainians, which you could not learn about in school, because almost all evidence was destroyed and victims were covered up for decades, survivors were forcibly silenced by not having the right to vote until recently.

The Holodomor at that time broke the Ukrainian resistance, but it made the desire for Ukraine's independence from Russia eternal.

Wow. Awesome reminder. I knew full well of the Holodomor, but sadly it doesn't get the historical representation that it should. Adolf Hitler was an asshole for sure, but Joseph Stalin was every bit his equal in regard to the evil they were capable of to achieve their utopian goals.

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[fool]

MTT not trying to gang up on you but htf do you actually believe (and promote) anything TC says. This article was already shared with you. Reread it maybe.

Fox's lawyers: The "'general tenor' of the show should then inform a viewer that [Carlson] is not 'stating actual facts' about the topics he discusses and is instead engaging in 'exaggeration' and 'non-literal commentary.' "

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/917747123/you-literally-cant-believe-the-facts-tucker-carlson-tells-you-so-say-fox-s-lawye

And if the article isn't interesting, this video is also insightful on his backstory:

[Hood26]

The Holodomor continued during the USSR occupation. It was a legitimate genocide of Ukrainians all the way to emancipation in 1991.

In the 1970s and 1980s when there were mass famines again, Russia was extracing 21% of its total grain output from Ukraine and only sending 16% of the grain back despite their very large population. In a time of famine, Russia was rent seeking.

[fool]

Not sure if it’s been posted yet, but new-ish (4 days old) Task & Purpose video:
https://youtu.be/FDKH_FxFdrw


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[KQ]

Just heard from my friend she and several family members made it out and are currently in Budapest on their way to the UK. Yay!

[Cono Este]

The Holodomor continued during the USSR occupation. It was a legitimate genocide of Ukrainians all the way to emancipation in 1991.

In the 1970s and 1980s when there were mass famines again, Russia was extracing 21% of its total grain output from Ukraine and only sending 16% of the grain back despite their very large population. In a time of famine, Russia was rent seeking.

They’d kill Ukrainians for eating their own crops. I don’t blame them not wanting to go back to that shit.




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[neufox47]

MTT not trying to gang up on you but htf do you actually believe (and promote) anything TC says. This article was already shared with you. Reread it maybe.

Fox's lawyers: The "'general tenor' of the show should then inform a viewer that [Carlson] is not 'stating actual facts' about the topics he discusses and is instead engaging in 'exaggeration' and 'non-literal commentary.' "

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/917747123/you-literally-cant-believe-the-facts-tucker-carlson-tells-you-so-say-fox-s-lawye

I think there should be a law that any media that wants to use that excuse / defense should have to start every show with a disclaimer like South Park.

[liv2ski]

WTF is wrong with this country? O ya, they are both stealing land that isn't theirs.

[mcphee]

WTF is wrong with this country? O ya, they are both stealing land that isn't theirs.

Careful now. Any criticism of the Israeli government in their effort to exterminate Palestinians is being spun as racist anti-semitism. Bari Weiss will come cancel you.

[Core Shot]

I think millions of Americans still think, to this day, that Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11 somehow.

And the Kardashians are cool.

speaking of cognitive dissonance....

Huge cognitive dissonance here

On the one hand, many kardashians are bangable.
Even mom looks good for her age.

On the other hand they are toxic trash and shouldn’t be popular.

Then there’s the cognitive dissonance of the former male decathlon gold medalist turned female supermodel.

[SumJongGuy]

Huge cognitive dissonance here

On the one hand, many kardashians are bangable.
Even mom looks good for her age.

On the other hand they are toxic trash and shouldn’t be popular.

Then there’s the cognitive dissonance of the former male decathlon gold medalist turned female supermodel.

Your Freudian slip is showing.

[frorider]

Just heard from my friend she and several family members made it out and are currently in Budapest on their way to the UK. Yay!

Yay indeed

[Benny Profane]

This is something. Got turned on to this guy here (in this thread?). First video is of him being very cavalier and entering Ukraine one day before invasion chuckling that it was all just a big scare, along with the Ukranians and Poles he encounters. Just a lark. Second video is him looking much more worried hauling his ass out of Kiev on a train to Romania.
Man, just think of that beautiful train station turned to rubble soon.

[Adolf Allerbush]

Those were long, but I could watch the Kari's translated subs at 1.5 and Masha at 1.75x.

Both impressed me so much I am now listening to Masha's NYT podcast from yesterday: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/11/o...ha-gessen.html

This is still quality assessment of the military situation daily and hopeful: https://twitter.com/JominiW
"15/ Ukrainian Overall Assessment. Ukrainian resolve remains high, UA units can conduct effective brigade-level operations, blunting Russian assaults in urban or open terrain. Ukraine is capable of forcing Russian into a protracted unwinnable war."

Gessen's take is quite dark...and completely believable/understandable. If she's right we shouldn't expect Russians, by and large, to think of what Putin has done as a failure for Russians...meaning, the sanctions will be spun as the west just being the west (out to get Russia) and the general populace is so misinformed/brainwashed that they would never accept that Putin/government had done anything wrong or was in the wrong. If her take is correct, he seems to be trying to reformulate Russia into being North Korea v 2.0, but with more resources.

something about Ezra Klein bugs...not sure if it's the lisp or what...but his interview is quite good with Gessen .

[summit]

Gessen is understandably jaded given her history. So I hope she's wrong. But she is also very knowledgeable because of her history, so I worry she is right.

[::: :::]

At one point, the discussion hovered around whether the regular people understood the particular fishbowl they lived in. It seems they do, but the threat of security changing for the worse seems to keep them from provoking radical change. And, of course, a good number especially older non-tech savvy folks don’t really put effort into questioning the media system.
So, I’m not sure that folks are immune to understanding the government is lying to them, just that they fear the alternatives enough to not question further.

[Adolf Allerbush]

At one point, the discussion hovered around whether the regular people understood the particular fishbowl they lived in. It seems they do, but the threat of security changing for the worse seems to keep them from provoking radical change. And, of course, a good number especially older non-tech savvy folks don’t really put effort into questioning the media system.
So, I’m not sure that folks are immune to understanding the government is lying to them, just that they fear the alternatives enough to not question further.

True. Do the sanctions end up working if China just gets them anything they need? The interview with Gessen talks about trains not working, cars breaking down, infrastructure generally falling apart, other things modern Russians have been accustom to being withheld. Can't China fill that gap for the most part? It would be different in some cases, but then Russian life moves on similar to before, and at some point maybe countries lose their appetite for the sanctions and reengage with Russia economically.