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Thread: Ukraine
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03-11-2022, 09:27 PM #3651
Right. And a sovereign country of Ukraine cannot of think for itself and needs to be questioned “why do they want to join Nato”… fuck you have twisted logic.
But the answer to “why Nato” is because they live next to a murderous neighboor. The answer applies to all Eastern Europe countries that joined Nato since the warsaw pack dissolved.
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03-11-2022, 09:38 PM #3652?
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I have to admit I have been really disappointed with Russia the past 10 years. I thought they would kick ass as a country after the ussr collapse. But then Putin just keeps being in charge. I did not think they would let that happen. Shit people go in ski vacations in Russia. Wtf. How did Russia become a threat to Ukraine or via versa 10 years ago?
Own your fail. ~Jer~
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03-11-2022, 09:41 PM #3653
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03-11-2022, 09:47 PM #3654
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03-11-2022, 09:53 PM #3655
At the entrance to the memorial park in Kyiv, there is a sculpture of an extremely thin girl with a very sad look holding a handful of wheat ears in her hands. Behind her back is the Candle of Remembrance, a monument with details reminiscent of authentic embroidery that can be found on traditional Ukrainian costumes. This is a monument that commemorates a historical event known as the Holodomor.
What is the Holodomor?
After the end of the First World War, Ukraine was an independent state, but in 1919 the Soviet Union "sucked" it into the community of Soviet states. The Ukrainians, who even then considered themselves a Central European people like the Poles and not an Eastern European like the Russians, tried to restore Ukraine's independence.
In 1932, not wanting to lose control of Europe's main granary, Stalin resorted to one of the most heinous forms of terror against one nation. In the process of nationalization, he took away the grain-producing land from the Ukrainian peasants, but also all its offerings, thus creating an artificial famine. The goal was to "teach Ukrainians to be smart" so that they would no longer oppose official Moscow. Thus the people who produced the most grain in Europe were left without a crumb of bread. The peak of the Holodomor was in the spring of 1933. In Ukraine at that time, 17 people died of hunger every minute, more than 1,000 every hour, and almost 24,500 every day! People were literally starving to death in the streets.
Stalin settled the Russian population in the emptied Ukrainian villages. During the next census, there was a large shortage of population. Therefore, the Soviet government annulled the census, destroyed the census documents, and the enumerators were shot or sent to the gulag, in order to completely hide the truth.
World War. Their poison gas was hunger. Their Hitler was Stalin. Their Holocaust was the Holodomor. For them, fascist Berlin was Soviet Moscow, and their concentration camp was the Soviet Union. Today, 28 countries around the world present the Holodomor as genocide against Ukrainians, which you could not learn about in school, because almost all evidence was destroyed and victims were covered up for decades, survivors were forcibly silenced by not having the right to vote until recently.
The Holodomor at that time broke the Ukrainian resistance, but it made the desire for Ukraine's independence from Russia eternal.“When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis
Kindness is a bridge between all people
Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism
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03-11-2022, 10:19 PM #3656?
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^^^i was not thinking about it a lot before this latest atrocity ^^^^
As said before I have met and worked with Ukrainian people
A tough resilient people. Same as Russian people who have settled in this country
These people don’t quit. I just hate this. They are not supposed to be fighting for survival. A year ago they were fighting to be giants in the technology centers and many other things. An awesome first world country
This is not supposed to be happening. !!!Own your fail. ~Jer~
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03-11-2022, 10:30 PM #3657
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03-11-2022, 10:47 PM #3658
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03-11-2022, 11:03 PM #3659
Wow. Awesome reminder. I knew full well of the Holodomor, but sadly it doesn't get the historical representation that it should. Adolf Hitler was an asshole for sure, but Joseph Stalin was every bit his equal in regard to the evil they were capable of to achieve their utopian goals.
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03-11-2022, 11:25 PM #3660Registered User
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03-11-2022, 11:47 PM #3661
The Holodomor continued during the USSR occupation. It was a legitimate genocide of Ukrainians all the way to emancipation in 1991.
In the 1970s and 1980s when there were mass famines again, Russia was extracing 21% of its total grain output from Ukraine and only sending 16% of the grain back despite their very large population. In a time of famine, Russia was rent seeking."Let's be careful out there."
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03-12-2022, 12:08 AM #3662Registered User
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Ukraine
Not sure if it’s been posted yet, but new-ish (4 days old) Task & Purpose video:
https://youtu.be/FDKH_FxFdrw
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03-12-2022, 12:13 AM #3663
Just heard from my friend she and several family members made it out and are currently in Budapest on their way to the UK. Yay!
“When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis
Kindness is a bridge between all people
Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism
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03-12-2022, 12:18 AM #3664
They’d kill Ukrainians for eating their own crops. I don’t blame them not wanting to go back to that shit.
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03-12-2022, 12:23 AM #3665
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03-12-2022, 05:42 AM #3666
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03-12-2022, 07:12 AM #3667
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03-12-2022, 07:17 AM #3668
Huge cognitive dissonance here
On the one hand, many kardashians are bangable.
Even mom looks good for her age.
On the other hand they are toxic trash and shouldn’t be popular.
Then there’s the cognitive dissonance of the former male decathlon gold medalist turned female supermodel.. . .
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03-12-2022, 07:54 AM #3669
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03-12-2022, 08:11 AM #3670
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03-12-2022, 08:40 AM #3671
This is something. Got turned on to this guy here (in this thread?). First video is of him being very cavalier and entering Ukraine one day before invasion chuckling that it was all just a big scare, along with the Ukranians and Poles he encounters. Just a lark. Second video is him looking much more worried hauling his ass out of Kiev on a train to Romania.
Man, just think of that beautiful train station turned to rubble soon.
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03-12-2022, 09:21 AM #3672
Gessen's take is quite dark...and completely believable/understandable. If she's right we shouldn't expect Russians, by and large, to think of what Putin has done as a failure for Russians...meaning, the sanctions will be spun as the west just being the west (out to get Russia) and the general populace is so misinformed/brainwashed that they would never accept that Putin/government had done anything wrong or was in the wrong. If her take is correct, he seems to be trying to reformulate Russia into being North Korea v 2.0, but with more resources.
something about Ezra Klein bugs...not sure if it's the lisp or what...but his interview is quite good with Gessen .Damn shame, throwing away a perfectly good white boy like that
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03-12-2022, 09:39 AM #3673
Gessen is understandably jaded given her history. So I hope she's wrong. But she is also very knowledgeable because of her history, so I worry she is right.
Originally Posted by blurred
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03-12-2022, 09:44 AM #3674
Ukraine
At one point, the discussion hovered around whether the regular people understood the particular fishbowl they lived in. It seems they do, but the threat of security changing for the worse seems to keep them from provoking radical change. And, of course, a good number especially older non-tech savvy folks don’t really put effort into questioning the media system.
So, I’m not sure that folks are immune to understanding the government is lying to them, just that they fear the alternatives enough to not question further.
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03-12-2022, 09:52 AM #3675
True. Do the sanctions end up working if China just gets them anything they need? The interview with Gessen talks about trains not working, cars breaking down, infrastructure generally falling apart, other things modern Russians have been accustom to being withheld. Can't China fill that gap for the most part? It would be different in some cases, but then Russian life moves on similar to before, and at some point maybe countries lose their appetite for the sanctions and reengage with Russia economically.
Damn shame, throwing away a perfectly good white boy like that
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