School me on running shoes

[PeachesNCream]

Recently got into running and decided it’s time to upgrade my Ross Dress For Less sneakers. I’m 6’3, 200lbs and do most my running on pavement. At my height and weight I’d say I value support more than comfort. I’ve got a “normal” narrow foot with a high arch and no joint issues. I’d prefer to buy shoes online. Any specific shoe recommendations? Are running shoes like ski boots where you should try them on first? New to all this so any pointers are welcome


Update: See post #20 for updated marathon shoe question

[buildakicker]

Nice! I'm about the same height and weight as you. Average feet width, measure out to about a 12, but wear a size 13. I do mainly trail running because the payment does not do my back any good. I have cycled through a lot of shoes in my running time. From New balance to Nike to Altra to Saucony to innov8 to Salomon etc.. none of them feel the same.

My personal favorites at this time are the Nike Kiger. However, second place is super close with the altra lone peak and the Solomon sense pro (ran my first 50k in these). I really like the 0 to 4 mm drop shoe. More of a flat approach to your feet on the ground.

The Nike and Salomon foam is more dense than the Altra... Might be what you are after when you mention "support".

I have a good buddy that runs pavement a lot and he really likes the Altra Torin. If possible I'd go to a running store and try on a bunch of shoes just see what you like. The biggest advice I could give is size up. I put at least a thumb in front of my big toe.

Let me know what you end up with!

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[Charlie Don't Surf]

Running shoes are like ski boots in that the more you run the more opinions you will have. You might also build a quiver...

What will work with you or not will depend o a lot on how much you run, what kind of running you are doing (how fast and how far) and your form/ running economy. Some people over and under pronate and that can make things more complicated. A running shop can help you with that.

I'm pretty similar hight and weight. I like hokas and use the Clifton, Rincon and speed goats. Hokas have a narrow last so they don't work for everyone but the Clifton is nice a cushy and works great for me on pavement.

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[Cruiser]

If you can get to a running store then you ought to do that first. Try a few brands on and get a little time on the treadmill in each so that you can really find something comfortable. After you know what fits you well then you can go back to buying online for subsequent pairs but do yourself a favor and buy in person first to get a good fit.

[buildakicker]

Running shoes are like ski boots in that the more you run the more opinions you will have. You might also build a quiver...

^^^ yes on the quiver. Depending on how much you run, cycling through shoes is important IMO.



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[BC.]

As stated above..if you have a local running store….it’s worth going in for a fit. It’s gonna be what fits your foot the best……

[XXX-er]

a good store will at least watch you run to the end of the block or put you on a treadmill to watch your stride, I had a guy try me in 3 shoes till he liked what he seen, buddy put me in a motion control shoe which kept me from getting hurt but eventualy I became a forefoot striker

you can spend the money on shoes from a running store or spend the money on a PT

[buildakicker]

a good store will at least watch you run to the end of the block or put you on a treadmill to watch your stride, I had a guy try me in 3 shoes till he liked what he seen, buddy put me in a motion control shoe which kept me from getting hurt but eventualy I became a forefoot striker

you can spend the money on shoes from a running store or spend the money on a PT

Yes ^^^ a good running store, not a big box store.

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[Flippo]

Since you have high arches, I would recommend bringing your ski boots footbed in a store and check the fit of different shoes with them.

[XXX-er]

Yes ^^^ a good running store, not a big box store.

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I bought a cheap pair of name brand shoes at a big box which seemed like a good deal except I ended up with PF, I couldn't run for a year and BTW it hurt

so getting back to running I was told go see Cory the shoe-guy, I took all my shoes in a pack which is something you should do so the fitter can see the wear patterns, he looked at those cheap shoes and said "oh those are really old " to which i replied they can't be that old cuz of when i bought them

he said "in this particular brand of shoe the models went up a digit each year 1014, 1015, ect and they are up to 1022 so I know this shoe is 7 years old and due to age here is no cush left in this sole " so that shoe had sat in a warehouse or a container or sft getting old and it fucked up my feet

cory put me in a shoe that worked, I have never had PF again and I don't mind paying list for a good shoe

YMMV of course

[PeachesNCream]

Thanks all, lots of good info here. I found my local running store and heading there tomorrow after work with my old shoes.

[PeachesNCream]

Any opinions on thick heel running shoes? It seems like it was (or is?) a trend, but I recently heard it doesn't support healthy running style as it encourages heel striking when you should be running more on the ball of your foot

[Jeb McHardman]

Any opinions on thick heel running shoes? It seems like it was (or is?) a trend, but I recently heard it doesn't support healthy running style as it encourages heel striking when you should be running more on the ball of your foot

I personally hate them but two caveats: 1) I'm much smaller than you (5'10", 160 lb) and 2) I've been running for over 20 years, much of that time competitively, and know exactly what I want in a shoe, road or trail. My advice would be to go into the fitting with an open mind, give the fitter as much information as possible (e.g., current mileage, aspirations, road v trail, etc.), and listen to their advice.

[mn_teleswede]

Any opinions on thick heel running shoes? It seems like it was (or is?) a trend, but I recently heard it doesn't support healthy running style as it encourages heel striking when you should be running more on the ball of your foot

6’3” / 205# / high arches/ 12.5 shoe size/ runner since playing soccer in college. All ^ fwiw

In regards to the above, the “stack” height of a shoe is only a small part of the equation. One must factor in the “drop” of a shoe, which promotes more of a heel strike. Stack refers to overall sole thickness while the drop refers to the difference in height between the heel and the toe of the shoe (usually 0-8mm). Personally I like a variety of stack heights but prefer a drop of 3-4, but own shoes with 0mm (new) and 8mm (rarely use) respectively. My go to trail shoe is the Hoke Stinson, which has a very high stack height and 4mm drop( my feet and knees love them for long river runs) but I am rotating in a pair of Altra Olympus trail shoes with high stack but a 0mm drop for snow runs; mainly due to Hoke supply chain issues. On the road, I prefer the Hoke Clifton and Brooks glycerin. Write on your calendar purchase date of new shoes and rotate out after 400 or so miles. Some training apps have this feature embedded. Just like ski boots- don’t go in to your first fitting saying you want such and such shoe. Trust the store or find a store that you do trust. Every manufacturer makes a good shoe in their lineup~ just gotta find the one that works for you. Sometimes last years model is more sought after than current model, cuz manufacturers sometimes don’t realize that they have a good thing going and screw it up for the sake of change.


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[fool]

Thanks all, lots of good info here. I found my local running store and heading there tomorrow after work with my old shoes.

Nice - that's a good call. A good, local running store is the place to start the running shoe journey. Just like a good ski boot fitter.

Any opinions on thick heel running shoes? It seems like it was (or is?) a trend, but I recently heard it doesn't support healthy running style as it encourages heel striking when you should be running more on the ball of your foot

Teleswede has some good comments on this and I'll echo a few. If you want to nerd out running on the ball of your foot, definitely google "Pose" running and get the book. If you just want to run though, start slow and steady and you should be fine. Cushier shoes generally (anecdotally) reduce running impact/stress, though sometimes they can alter stride in a bad way.

Initially, I'd trust the shoe store and probably look for something with at least 4mm drop to get started. You can go lower drop...but it will probably take some time, depending on what your feet are used to.

The good thing is that at least running shoe quivers are cheaper than ski quivers.

[buildakicker]

Checkout the book "Born to Run"

You might just make "shoes" out of tires afterwards.

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[PeachesNCream]

Update: went to a local running store and they did the foot scan, watched me walk, and suggested a few pairs of shoes, very helpful. Ended up with the Hoka Clifton 8

[stapes]

Update: went to a local running store and they did the foot scan, watched me walk, and suggested a few pairs of shoes, very helpful. Ended up with the Hoka Clifton 8

I think you’ll like those. I’ve turned into a bit of a Hoka fanboy and Cliftons are my daily shoe most of the time, and definitely if I’m running from the house on roads and bike paths and there’s not snow. I can tell they help with my recovery too. I tend to be less sore/achey and can bounce back quicker/run more frequently, especially after longer runs.

I also run/hike in the Challengers and Speed Goats for more trail runs or snowy conditions.

To echo what someone said above, and I’d heard from older runners before, if you find a shoe you like buy a few pairs and alternate through em. They like to change/tweak/‘improve’ them year to year and not always for the better. My wife was giving me grief for the amount of running shoes in our laundry room the other day. I did just stock up on a few pairs of each recently. I tend to buy multiples especially if I find them on sale.

[XXX-er]

Any opinions on thick heel running shoes? It seems like it was (or is?) a trend, but I recently heard it doesn't support healthy running style as it encourages heel striking when you should be running more on the ball of your foot

Back in the day the shoe guy tried me in 3 shoes on his tread mill and put me in the most agressive motion control shoe he had in stock, that shoe encouraged me to be on the balls of the foot cuz I couldn't really heel strike in that shoe so I was on the balls of my feet for sure and it trained me to fore foot strike

I duno if motion control shoes are a thing any more but they helped me a lot, of course every foot is different than my foot so any reqs aren't really gona be useful SO

get the red ones

[PeachesNCream]

Appreciate all the previous replies. The Cliftons have worked great for me.

Update. I signed up for a marathon for Thanksgiving weekend. I've put about 150 miles on the shoes, and expect to put on ~250 miles training for this marathon. That would be 400 miles for the shoes by the time its time for the marathon. Google says the shoes are good for 300-500 miles and since I'm 200lbs I'm thinking the shoes will be about clapped by marathon time. So I'm thinking it'd be a good idea to buy shoes before the marathon. Racing/plated shoes are a fun idea but I don't know how much running I'll do after the marathon so I want to keep the cost low. I stumbled across Atreyu. Their trainer is $80 and their plated racing shoe is $100, both very affordable and reviews are good. I aim to run the marathon in 4-4.25 hrs. Would I benefit from a plated race shoe? Or should I stick with the general trainer, sounds like people have used it for a marathon shoe. Anyone have experience with Atreyu shoes? General thoughts?

Trainer: https://www.atreyurunning.com/produc...ase-model-v2-0
Plated race shoe: https://www.atreyurunning.com/produc...40371726516382

[smartyiak]

If the Clifton's worked for you, why not stick with them? Or, you could try a "different" clifton:

https://www.runningwarehouse.com/catpage-SALEMS.html

The Clifton Edge or the Rincon (which is sorta a "new version" of the Clifton). BUT: make sure you run a handful of miles in anything you get...don't wear a brand new sneak to a marathon.

Note: never tried Atreyu.

[PeachesNCream]

If the Clifton's worked for you, why not stick with them? Or, you could try a "different" clifton:

https://www.runningwarehouse.com/catpage-SALEMS.html

The Clifton Edge or the Rincon (which is sorta a "new version" of the Clifton). BUT: make sure you run a handful of miles in anything you get...don't wear a brand new sneak to a marathon.

Note: never tried Atreyu.

I would like to try something faster for the race. Sounds like the cliftons are good everyday running shoes but are not necessarily a racing shoe. But I'm also wondering if at my pace it even makes much of a difference

[doebedoe]

YMMV, but a plated shoe at 4hr+ pace feels unnecessary.

If you've had good experience with the Clifton, I'd buy another pair and start working them into your routine with the goal of having 20-40 miles on them before race day.

The Rincon is similar to the Clifton but you give up 5mm of stack height. That is a significant amount of cushion. I wouldn't recommend going thinner for a race where your #1 goal is probably finishing, not a time.

If you just want something different and maybe a touch faster I'd be looking at the Mach 4 or the Carbon X -- both of which Runningwarehouse has on sale currently. Similar drop, similar cushioning levels as the cliftons with a bit less weight.

[doebedoe]

I would like to try something faster for the race. Sounds like the cliftons are good everyday running shoes but are not necessarily a racing shoe. But I'm also wondering if at my pace it even makes much of a difference

Get a faster shoe for tempo days in training. A fast shoe for a marathon race is going to give you at best -- 5minutes. A fast shoe (less weight, less cushion, less support) may also reduce likelihood of finishing.

But if you're only buying one shoe between now and then, the priority for a first marathon is finishing. Not time. 26mi on pavement for the first time priorities should be plenty of cushion, and potentially a bit of support. Things get sloppy in those last 8 miles. Stack the deck in your favor.

[Cruiser]

It's nice to rotate a couple of different shoes into the mix if you run a lot. Grab another pair that are a bit different than your current shoes but still feel great on your feet and then work then into your mileage slowly and see where it goes. Worst case you've got a nice comfy pair of lawn mowing shoes. Best case you like the new kicks better and you make them your primary trainers. Either way, it's another reliable data point in the eternal search for the most time running with the least unnecessary discomfort.