Tecton vs shift be Duke

[Spyderjon]

......ATKs are too expensive/elusive in Canada...

I can help you with that.

[turnfarmer]

+1

Skied Kingpins (+100 days), Tectons (~20 days), Shifts (~10 days). I like the former 2 for touring centric travel setups, say 70/30 touring resort. The power transfer for variable snow and safety are major considerations for me when traveling. These live on the mid-fat/mid-weight ski in the quiver (looking for a new one!)

The shifts helped me realize that a 50/50 option is too much of a compromise. I won't elaborate on what I have already shared in the Shift dedicated thread - but I think they are awesome bindings for the right person, especially those with a 1 ski quiver when set up correctly. Dukes look like a better option to me for this 1 ski quiver setup. Casts are *cool* but likely overkill vs. dukes for 90% of skiers.

My real predicament is figuring out what ~300g option to slot in on my pow touring setup now that the shift is getting sold! ATKs are too expensive/elusive in Canada...

Skimoco employee fav will be my next buy in this category-
https://skimo.co/ski-trab-titan-vario-2

[PeachesNCream]

I've got 4 friends and myself who have all ran shifts at one point. There seems to be a difference in pre release depending on how much you weigh. The 2 folks that are 200+ lbs have had many pre release instances. The folks that are more in the 170/180 lbs range don't seem to have any issues.

[PeachesNCream]

- The Squire heel on the PT12 works fine with alpine boots (like Cochise) if you're not a big guy, but isn't so great for AT boots that have a taller heel lug because the Squire dildo pivot is lower than on Griffon and Jester (to make it easier to have a lower DIN range). With a tall heel lug and the Squire low pivot, it doesn't take much vertical travel to release, probably similar to a Shift or Tecton. With a Griffon heel on the PT12 or the Jester heel of the PT16, there's substantially more vertical elasticity. So I swapped a pair of Griffon heels to my DukePT 12's (for use with ZeroG), and will use the PT12/Squire heels with the Griffon toes and DIN-sole Cochise on inbounds skis. Easy, no-cost swap.

Am I understanding this correctly...the PT 12 heel is geometrically (is that a word?) different than the PT 16, so there's more going on than just different springs and different materials. One of my gripes with shift is that the heel releases so easily

[SoVT Joey]

Am I understanding this correctly...the PT 12 heel is geometrically (is that a word?) different than the PT 16, so there's more going on than just different springs and different materials. One of my gripes with shift is that the heel releases so easily

yes. The 12 is built off a squire heel, the 16 is built off on the jester heel. 16 is way better releasing then the 12.

[1000-oaks]

^ Yes, exactly. The heel cup pivot on most bindings is usually just above the top of the boot heel lug. The Squire heel pivot is a bit lower to make release easier, and Look racing heels are quite a bit higher to increase vertical elasticity. Griffon/Jester heel pivot position splits the difference, and captures the boot heel lug much more securely than the Squire, which feels mushy by comparison when popping the boot in and out of the binding. Especially with a taller rubber-sole AT boot, which positions the heel cup closer to release than an alpine boot.

Also, the PT brake platform is a couple mm higher than the Royal brake, which also cuts into the vertical elasticity.

[PeachesNCream]

Gotcha. I was leaning PT 12 due to the weight savings but going 16 now. thanks

[1000-oaks]

PT16 is heavy, so I have PT12 with Griffon heels as a compromise.

[Sylvan]

^ If u can wait, Marker is tweaking the lineup to have a Duke PT 16, 13, and 11 next year; heels will be jester, griffon, and squire respectively, and they’re doing away with the 12 ‘squire hybrid’ heel piece. One data point though, at 195#, I’ve had no issues with the latter, though I mostly just tour for steeps.

https://blisterreview.com/gear-revie...new-gear-recap

[turnfarmer]

From my point of view, both the Duke PT models and the shift both have very high heeled delta. IIRC, Shift is 8mm and Duke is 10mm.
Switching Duke pt 12 heel to Griffon heel drops the delta to 5mm. You lose the ability to lock brakes and the heel lift, but for this application, the rubber bands will be ok for me. For my zero delta needs, I feel a lot more comfortable shimming the toes 5mm instead of 10.

[SupreChicken]

It’s really 10mm? Shit. I need some griffons stat

[1000-oaks]

For less delta, just use a Royal brake (and rubber bands for the brakes) on the PT (regardless of which heel you use). You also lose the PT climbing bar though, but you could add a Voile climbing bar like the pin/Tyrolia demo guys do.

I've been meaning to check the PT brake pedal clearance to see if the PT brake platform could be milled down a few mm.

[S_jenks]

Just stick with the tried and true, and go with the frames.

[1000-oaks]

No idea why Marker even still sells the frame bindings, old stock in the warehouse maybe. Can't imagine they're still manufacturing them.

[SnowMachine]

i have given up on the hybrid options. for the skis that i want to do multiple things, I quiver kill for a 300g binding and pivots. if im touring, im touring. if im inbounds, im inbounds. if you're familiar with your binding and own a drill you can swap in less than 5 minutes. if you're traveling...i dunno. maybe for a japan trip it makes sense.

i dont do the 'slackcountry' thing and i dont believe most of the people that buy a hybrid binding for 'slackcountry' do much either. if you're the rare person who actively skis slackcountry laps, they make sense, but there just arent that many folk in practice

hybrid bindings are built for people who own 1 ski and want it to do everything. that belies the fact that they are REALLY built to sell and generate sales

I don't disagree with this post. I tried running Shifts as a hybrid on BC 120's. The reality for me was making less compromise inbounds. Now I'm on heavier inbounds powder skis with STH2's. I kept the BC120's with Shifts for touring. Win/Win. I get along great with Shifts out of bounds or side country and I have a bomber resort setup that works better when things get choppy. What's one more ski in the garage? I'm confident enough on Shifts that I could gladly grab the BC120's if I were traveling and skiing in/out of bounds (but not confident enough to ski them 30+ days/yr inbounds). Right tool for the right job.

[1000-oaks]

Was just looking at a current-gen Squire demo binding, and was thinking maybe the Squire or Griffon demo track and heel could be used with a DukePT toe. That way you could also remove the heel when climbing to cut weight. You'd have to use long wood screws in the DukePT brake pad and dig them into the plastic baseplate (instead of attaching the brake pad to the heel unit) to lock the brake assembly in position. Or use a regular Royal brake and leave it attached to the heel unit, and add a Voile dual climbing bar in front of the heel track, as done with the Tyrolia Attack demo touring setup.

[arild]

Was just looking at a current-gen Squire demo binding, and was thinking maybe the Squire or Griffon demo track and heel could be used with a DukePT toe. That way you could also remove the heel when climbing to cut weight. You'd have to use long wood screws in the DukePT brake pad and dig them into the plastic baseplate (instead of attaching the brake pad to the heel unit) to lock the brake assembly in position. Or use a regular Royal brake and leave it attached to the heel unit, and add a Voile dual climbing bar in front of the heel track, as done with the Tyrolia Attack demo touring setup.

Very interesting! Didn't Lindahl make something like this with Attack demos? I forget.

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[SoVT Joey]

Im confused. I just don’t see the gain. And if you are going to attach the brake to the plate you will have to bump forward the brake and riser which will put you higher. I don’t understand I guess.

[tenB]

Im confused. I just don’t see the gain. And if you are going to attach the brake to the plate you will have to bump forward the brake and riser which will put you higher. I don’t understand I guess.

The gain is that you would lose over 800 grams while touring by removing the heels. I could see doing that for really long approaches.

[SoVT Joey]

The gain is that you would lose over 800 grams while touring by removing the heels. I could see doing that for really long approaches.

setting forward pressure at the top of a mtn sounds absolutely miserable. And not exactly very easy from in your boots in your binding. Wait til the heel track is stuffed full of ice. Also you would have to remove the brake or whatever riser to slide the heel on cause it only goes on from the front.

[tenB]

setting forward pressure at the top of a mtn sounds absolutely miserable. And not exactly very easy from in your boots in your binding. Wait til the heel track is stuffed full of ice. Also you would have to remove the brake or whatever riser to slide the heel on cause it only goes on from the front.

Agree it would be a pia, but you could always mark the heel track to get correct forward pressure without stepping a boot in. Some creativity or fabricating to get a brake/riser on the track but plenty doable.

I only see the hassle being worth it if it’s a really long tour, but otherwise you’re skiing down in pins on a lighter binding.