Tecton vs shift be Duke

[SupreChicken]

Topic for its own thread I think.

I’m not the biggest dude, so others may feel differently.

And I haven’t skied the new duke.

But…with a good toe shim, I have as much confidence in the tecton as the shift from a downhill performance perspective.

I have more confidence that the tecton will be durable and less likely to lose parts or release unexpectedly.

I think the shifts are finicky and kind of annoying. Nice cachunk feel clicking in. Very sth like.

I leave the voyager out because of the different release mechanics vs the tecton.

Who can make a compelling argument to not just go full tecton maximalism on my non-volcano touring setups?

Other than “descending on pins”…

[kid-kapow]

if you want to regain your confidence in the Shift then stay out of the cesspit that is the Shift thread. Bunch of mags that want to revalidate that their hate of the binding is justified, very little actual input. (I have 100-150 days on Shifts by now, yet that thread has ruined the binding for me - just too much negativity )

Dukes makes no sense to me, at all - why not just get Cast?

But at the end of the day the case for Tectons is pretty easy - want toe elasticity + meaningful vertical elasticity in the rar + non-rotating heels and downward pressure for power transfer -> Tecton.

If the abscence of either of the aforementioned is not a deal breaker -> get ATKs.

[waxman]

what do you mean downhill performance? as in skiing downhill after touring up? or skiing the binding at the hill lift service?

[1000-oaks]

Been digging DukePT 12 (with 2021 Griffon heels) a lot, they ski exactly the same as Griffons. Haven't tried touring on them yet, but will use thick rubber bands (like 1st gen CAST) to hold up the brakes, since brake dropping is allegedly an issue. I like Tectons a lot, but my downhill confidence level on the PT is the same as alpine bindings, which is not the case with pin bindings - even if they're burly Tectons.

Dukes makes no sense to me, at all - why not just get Cast?

CAST doesn't play with AT boots like ZeroG, but DukePT does.

[kc_7777]

Sold my Shifts. Liked them but always felt like I was gonna bash them too hard when raging inbounds for many many days in a row. They were ok to tour on for me.

Now have one pair of new Tectons and two pairs of new 16 Duke PTs. All three unskied at the present time.

Will report back after I ski them both.

PS the Duke PTs look pretty good in the box to me. I’ve bought a CAST set-up and re-sold it. Was worried about non-straight posts/pillars on the CAST when mounting them. So I sold them.

KC

[kid-kapow]

CAST doesn't play with AT boots like ZeroG, but DukePT does.

Huh, pivots can be run with all known alpine setups to the best of my knowledge.

Alpine skiing with a touring specific sole seems like a sub-optimale solution, MNC or not.

[DarthMarkus]

Fwiw, I've stuffed my zero g toe into the CAST GW AFD and it's alright. But I also have MTNs that I'm using for my true touring setup. Otherwise CAST is primarily for when I wanna huck my meat or get into some side country options, at which point I'm using my Cochise 130s, not a true touring boot.

As much hate as the Shift gets, I think many people aren't considering what the elastic travel in that binding is actually accomplishing; adjusted correctly, I don't believe there's anything out there on the same level. Tectons have a great heel assembly, but you're still on pins for the front.

I don't trust marker, so duke PT is out for me, but others may have a different experience. I'd also never go back to a frame binding; CAST or Shift a much better solution.

Adjust the Shift correctly, and I think you'd have pretty good results, especially if you're a lighter skier.

[SupreChicken]

Huh. What’s the toe and heel heights on the duke?

[cat in january]

I had two toe problems with Vipec black and second with replacement Evo. First a lot of slop developed. Second something inside the toe assembly locked up making the toe unreleasable and the lever was partially destroyed extricating my boot. Sold them when replacements came as I lost all faith and I really wanted to believe as I like the concepts

[SupreChicken]

also this is really for the pow touring or travel setup. More jibby than I once was.

Like I’ve used bent chet 120/shifts the last couple years.

Main touring rig is tecton/deathwish tour.

Eyeing a white walker or Jeff 118 tour (yeesh, custom prices) to get something just a little narrower into this slot. Wildcat tour is good, but just isn’t quite the ski I want for this.

That’s the binding conundrum. Mix of earning turns and riding lifts. Is the tecton downside significant enough or not?

I need to hammer lifts with the DWT for a day and see how I feel about it.

[SoVT Joey]

If you are goi g to ride lifts as well I would go with the duke pt. I haven’t had any problems with my pt 16 and they ski great. Just like any other royal, which all ski well. They tour well enough.

[sweatypowderpig]

also this is really for the pow touring or travel setup. More jibby than I once was.

Like I’ve used bent chet 120/shifts the last couple years.

Main touring rig is tecton/deathwish tour.

Eyeing a white walker or Jeff 118 tour (yeesh, custom prices) to get something just a little narrower into this slot. Wildcat tour is good, but just isn’t quite the ski I want for this.

That’s the binding conundrum. Mix of earning turns and riding lifts. Is the tecton downside significant enough or not?

I need to hammer lifts with the DWT for a day and see how I feel about it.

I'm with kid-kapow.
you either value the elasticity of the shifts/Duke PT or have confidence in the pins.

for a pure pow touring ski, i'd go ATK or your pin of choice every time. that's where i went with my pow-tour-only tracer118 (ditched the shifts).

for a true travel setup, i'd go shifts or Duke PTs if you really want the burl factor. I think CAST makes a lot of sense here too.

I feel your pain though. the shifts are finicky, seem to require constant adjustment, but I have no doubts about their downhill performance over 50 days.
unfortunately, the amount of options these days is a bit overwhelming and their utility bleeds over into lots of use-cases with trade-off upon trade-off.

In the end, one setup is not gonna do it all. think long and hard about the use case for this build, what you value most and you'll come to the right decision.
Or not and you now got more data to make a more informed decision on the next one.

i will say that a touring quiver of 112/118/120 is a bit strange? mine runs 85/98/118 and 90% of the days are spent on the 98. not sure there's really a gap that needs to be filled between 112 and 120.

ultimately, if you like the tectons after your inbounds testing, i see no reason not to continue using them.

[SupreChicken]

I'm with kid-kapow.

I feel your pain though. the shifts are finicky, seem to require constant adjustment, but I have no doubts

i will say that a touring quiver of 112/118/120 is a bit strange? mine runs 85/98/118 and 90% of the days are spent on the 98. not sure there's really a gap that needs to be filled between 112 and 120.

ultimately, if you like the tectons after your inbounds testing, i see no reason not to continue using them.

This is a good point. I justify it by thinking of The DWT as a fat all mtn ski. So I don’t mind not having a main squeeze in the narrower slot. I just don’t vibe with skinny skis in variable snow.

[XavierD]

Tecton toe shim? Just for the ramp?

I had full confidence skiing Tectons in the resort. Wouldn’t make a habit of it but clearly superior to lighter tech bindings. Significantly more confidence in the DukePT though. At 200+ I found myself constantly adjusting the Shifts and ended up putting a spacer against the heel spring to keep from face planting out of the binding. Duke PT feels way more solid and confidence inspiring. For me it would be the clear winner for a hybrid binding. If I wasn’t planning on seeing a ton of resort usage Tectons or kingpins would be the way to go.

Cast for me is too 1 dimensional and unrefined. The toe pillar hasn’t been truest optimized for the same smooth elasticity as the stock toe. Lack of adjustment for different boots kills it for me.

[SupreChicken]

Tecton toe shim? Just for the ramp?

I had full confidence skiing Tectons in the resort. Wouldn’t make a habit of it but clearly superior to lighter tech bindings. Significantly more confidence in the DukePT though. At 200+ I found myself constantly adjusting the Shifts and ended up putting a spacer against the heel spring to keep from face planting out of the binding. Duke PT feels way more solid and confidence inspiring. For me it would be the clear winner for a hybrid binding. If I wasn’t planning on seeing a ton of resort usage Tectons or kingpins would be the way to go.

Cast for me is too 1 dimensional and unrefined. The toe pillar hasn’t been truest optimized for the same smooth elasticity as the stock toe. Lack of adjustment for different boots kills it for me.

Yup. For the ramp. I’m annoyingly sensitive to ramp. At 165, I can get away with the Duke pt 12.

I totally get hating on marker, but if that’s the best offering on the market and there are deals to be had, hard to not want to try it.

Other opinions welcome

[mr_pretzel]

Tecton toe shim? Just for the ramp?

I had full confidence skiing Tectons in the resort. Wouldn’t make a habit of it but clearly superior to lighter tech bindings. Significantly more confidence in the DukePT though. At 200+ I found myself constantly adjusting the Shifts and ended up putting a spacer against the heel spring to keep from face planting out of the binding. Duke PT feels way more solid and confidence inspiring. For me it would be the clear winner for a hybrid binding. If I wasn’t planning on seeing a ton of resort usage Tectons or kingpins would be the way to go.

Cast for me is too 1 dimensional and unrefined. The toe pillar hasn’t been truest optimized for the same smooth elasticity as the stock toe. Lack of adjustment for different boots kills it for me.

Can you elaborate on the CAST unrefined part?

Also are we confident in the release ability of the the tecton toe? Or is it somewhat of a false security?

I’ve unfortunately heard a lot of stories of the duke pt toe lever breaking which has put me off that binding, which is too bad cause I like the MNC compatibility

[1000-oaks]

Marker already fixed the issue with the broken toe levers (and is replacing the tech toes for anyone with affected toes), see the DukePT thread.

- With a 300mm BSL Zero G Tour Pro, I had to do some grinding on the heel rubber (creating clearance for the brake pedal) to improve fit in the binding heel.

- The Squire heel on the PT12 works fine with alpine boots (like Cochise) if you're not a big guy, but isn't so great for AT boots that have a taller heel lug because the Squire dildo pivot is lower than on Griffon and Jester (to make it easier to have a lower DIN range). With a tall heel lug and the Squire low pivot, it doesn't take much vertical travel to release, probably similar to a Shift or Tecton. With a Griffon heel on the PT12 or the Jester heel of the PT16, there's substantially more vertical elasticity. So I swapped a pair of Griffon heels to my DukePT 12's (for use with ZeroG), and will use the PT12/Squire heels with the Griffon toes and DIN-sole Cochise on inbounds skis. Easy, no-cost swap.

[XavierD]

Can you elaborate on the CAST unrefined part?

Also are we confident in the release ability of the the tecton toe? Or is it somewhat of a false security?

I’ve unfortunately heard a lot of stories of the duke pt toe lever breaking which has put me off that binding, which is too bad cause I like the MNC compatibility

Last year saw a ton of CAST’d P15s having inconsistencies in toe release tests. Also having specific AFDs to swap out without MNC compatibility is a critical flaw in a current cross over binding. I should be able to adjust for changes in boot sole over time as they wear down as well as swapping between alpine/grip walk/rubber soles.

[margotron]

i have given up on the hybrid options. for the skis that i want to do multiple things, I quiver kill for a 300g binding and pivots. if im touring, im touring. if im inbounds, im inbounds. if you're familiar with your binding and own a drill you can swap in less than 5 minutes. if you're traveling...i dunno. maybe for a japan trip it makes sense.

i dont do the 'slackcountry' thing and i dont believe most of the people that buy a hybrid binding for 'slackcountry' do much either. if you're the rare person who actively skis slackcountry laps, they make sense, but there just arent that many folk in practice

hybrid bindings are built for people who own 1 ski and want it to do everything. that belies the fact that they are REALLY built to sell and generate sales

[the_eleven]

i have given up on the hybrid options. for the skis that i want to do multiple things, I quiver kill for a 300g binding and pivots. if im touring, im touring. if im inbounds, im inbounds. if you're familiar with your binding and own a drill you can swap in less than 5 minutes. if you're traveling...i dunno. maybe for a japan trip it makes sense.

i dont do the 'slackcountry' thing and i dont believe most of the people that buy a hybrid binding for 'slackcountry' do much either. if you're the rare person who actively skis slackcountry laps, they make sense, but there just arent that many folk in practice

hybrid bindings are built for people who own 1 ski and want it to do everything. that belies the fact that they are REALLY built to sell and generate sales

Truth

[homeeey]

What's "slackcountry"?

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[1000-oaks]

DukePT is a great binding for patrollers. Skis well, safely accepts rubber hybrid boot soles, can go uphill when necessary, and sturdy enough to have zero concerns running a heavy sled.

[XavierD]

What's "slackcountry"?

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The area accessed by the lifts Vail inc can’t turn on due to miss management.

[turnfarmer]

The area accessed by the lifts Vail inc can’t turn on due to miss management.

QFT!

[tupp_]

+1

Skied Kingpins (+100 days), Tectons (~20 days), Shifts (~10 days). I like the former 2 for touring centric travel setups, say 70/30 touring resort. The power transfer for variable snow and safety are major considerations for me when traveling. These live on the mid-fat/mid-weight ski in the quiver (looking for a new one!)

The shifts helped me realize that a 50/50 option is too much of a compromise. I won't elaborate on what I have already shared in the Shift dedicated thread - but I think they are awesome bindings for the right person, especially those with a 1 ski quiver when set up correctly. Dukes look like a better option to me for this 1 ski quiver setup. Casts are *cool* but likely overkill vs. dukes for 90% of skiers.

My real predicament is figuring out what ~300g option to slot in on my pow touring setup now that the shift is getting sold! ATKs are too expensive/elusive in Canada...