touring puffy

[counterfeitfake]

In need of a new touring jacket.

What I would like my damp not-very-cold PNW touring layer system to be:
- synthetic base layer
- very light softshell (BD Alpine Start hoody)
- synthetic puffy that goes on at the top before skiing.

I'm missing the last piece.

In the past I used an OR jacket (called Chaos I think) that was just okay, until the zipper blew up. Then I moved to colder places and skied inbounds in a beloved Mammut Bormio ski puffy, it looks like isn't made anymore. I moved back to the PNW and have been using this same ski puffy in this touring role. It's been okay, it's heavier than necessary but it got the job done. Now its zipper has blown up.

(why are zippers so impossible anymore?)

So what I'm looking for is
- medium synthetic insulation
- waterproof preferred, probably not goretex
- lightweight
- hood
- good fit for a skinny guy
- wrist gaiter
- color

Any ideas?

[sierra_cement]

I use a patagucci micropuff jacket

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[jdadour]

I use a patagucci micropuff jacket

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+1 on the MacroPuff for "put on at the top" layer. Since its synthetic down, its still functions well despite getting wet, which can happen when stuffed in a touring pack.

My actual touring mid layer is a Patagonia R1, or Nano-Air Light Hybrid. The Hybrid is my favorite all around mid layer for touring or resort skiing.

[counterfeitfake]

I think I'm looking for something warmer, and waterproof.

I have a micropuff and I actually hate it. It fits me badly and it's not that warm. I wear it to work on my car and in the yard and stuff but it won't die.

[kootenayskier]

I layer the same way, and use the Patagonia Stretch Nano Storm, which is perfect for this application. The Arc’teryx Rush IS is also designed specifically for this. Unfortunately both have been discontinued (WTF). The Dynafit Free Infinium Insulation Jacket isn’t completely waterproof, but would probably work well enough (also the similar Rab Khroma Kharve). The Arc’teryx Alpine Guide IS also looks sweet, but is $$ and only available on Pro-form.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

I'm a big fan of Montbell's synthetic insulation. They just get the details right. I haven't used this one but it has a membrane: https://www.montbell.us/products/dis...01628&gen_cd=1

[CirqueScaler]

Not to be an asshole, but just transition faster and you won't need to put on a puffy at the top. Aren't you going to take it off at the bottom? I'm never cold when I ski.

[rod9301]

I assume you have a heavy puffy that you carry in case of an emergency.

If that's the case, a fleece might work for the down.

If you don't, you should reconsider. Anything other than a thick puffy will not keep you alive for 5-6 hours or God forbid till next morning.

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[bfree]

Not to be an asshole, but just transition faster and you won't need to put on a puffy at the top. Aren't you going to take it off at the bottom? I'm never cold when I ski.

Same. Carry a puffy for emergency purposes but leave it in the pack the vast majority of the time.
IMO a outer layer for PNW touring should be somewhat water/snow resistant, thin, and not at all insulative.

[kevino]

https://www.norrona.com/en-GB/produc...en/?color=1105

[davjr96]

Are you looking for "Static insulation", aka not to wear while touring or skiing (unless really cold)? If so:

The "DAS Light" is the newer version of the micropuff. It is more weather resistant and a bit warmer. More of a climber jacket than the micropuff. I love mine for the use you are describing. Checks all your boxes. The Nuclei FL is the Arc'teryx Equivalent.

If you are going heavier than that Arc'teryx recently released the Nuclei SV. I picked one up on sale for black friday. Seems awesome so far but I have not gotten it out into the field yet. Patagonia equivalent is the "DAS Parka".

If you are willing to look at down many other options present themselves. Can be difficult in the PNWet but if you are only doing day trips it can work.

[kootenayskier]

Are you looking for "Static insulation", aka not to wear while touring or skiing (unless really cold)? If so:

The "DAS Light" is the newer version of the micropuff. It is more weather resistant and a bit warmer. More of a climber jacket than the micropuff. I love mine for the use you are describing. Checks all your boxes. The Nuclei FL is the Arc'teryx Equivalent.

If you are going heavier than that Arc'teryx recently released the Nuclei SV. I picked one up on sale for black friday. Seems awesome so far but I have not gotten it out into the field yet. Patagonia equivalent is the "DAS Parka".

If you are willing to look at down many other options present themselves. Can be difficult in the PNWet but if you are only doing day trips it can work.

Apologies in advance for the rant, but the lack of appreciation and decreasing selection of choices in this category has me slightly riled.

Belaying jackets are too warm, not breathable enough, and not weather resistant enough for ridge top touring, transitions, and skiing when it’s snowing and blowing in temperatures between -5C and -10C (pretty much every day for me at the moment). A lightweight synthetic “active” insulator (nano puff or proton) combined with a waterproof breathable shell also works, but having one jacket that does both is (in my experience) more breathable, lighter, more packable, and much less fucking around.

To those that don’t need to layer up, lucky you. I’ve also skied with freaks that never wear gloves or goggles, but I’m one of those lean and efficient individuals that don’t generate much heat unless I’m trenching uphill, and I often need insulation to stay warm.

[davjr96]

Apologies in advance for the rant, but the lack of appreciation and decreasing selection of choices in this category has me slightly riled.

Belaying jackets are too warm, not breathable enough, and not weather resistant enough for ridge top touring, transitions, and skiing when it’s snowing and blowing in temperatures between -5C and -10C (pretty much every day for me at the moment). A lightweight synthetic “active” insulator (nano puff or proton) combined with a waterproof breathable shell also works, but having one jacket that does both is (in my experience) more breathable, lighter, more packable, and much less fucking around.

To those that don’t need to layer up, lucky you. I’ve also skied with freaks that never wear gloves or goggles, but I’m one of those lean and efficient individuals that don’t generate much heat unless I’m trenching uphill, and I often need insulation to stay warm.

Agreed, it really depends if OP is looking for something to wear on the move or not. Personally even in -10C to -15C I can't be on the move with anything more than a fleece + softshell or breathable hardshell (which is a whole different discussion).

If OP is looking for something to wear while moving then as you said there are very very limited options. Static is easier.

Another option that comes to mind for active is the now discontinued Norvan SL Insulated.

[CirqueScaler]

I'd strongly encourage you to look for more of an active layer that breathes well on the up but offers wind and water protection on the down (which is what you really need - you are still active on the down so generating heat, but you are cooling you because of wind).

Last night in 5F in Utah, I toured in two base layers and an Ortovox Col Becchei. Unzip when skinning up (not necessary last night) and zip up when skiing down. The hood adds another 10F of warmth, approx. I wear it up to 25F w/ various base layers.

For warmer temps, I use a Patagonia Nano Air Light Hybrid, which is a dream layer.

While I think this system is best, it seems like most people don't tour like this. And if you do tour and dress efficiently, and then you go touring with someone who is slow on the transitions, you will freeze your ass off waiting for them. A small, packable, light puffy that I also have is the Eddie Bauer Microtherm 2.0. I got it on closeout, so it's a lot cheaper than it is right now. I wouldn't pay $180 for it, but it is DWR-treated. Doubt it could stand up to a PNW storm, and the -10F rating is ludicrous, but worth throwing into the recs.

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

For warmer temps, I use a Patagonia Nano Air Light Hybrid, which is a dream layer.

I so wish they still made that jacket. I tour in mine all the time and stopped wearing it for anything else so I can extend the lifespan. I just picked up an R1 Air for other uses, but am curious how it'll compare to the Nano Air when touring on really warm days.

Eddie Bauer Microtherm 2.0.

I keep one of these in my touring pack just in case. Love it. Have tossed it over the Nano Air, hardshell, etc. when the weather demands. OP if you can wait it out for a good EB sale (likely post Xmas) you can get these cheap. I think mine was maybe $60.

[jacob_dbu]

Everyone is saying to try a different layering system, but if you want to stick with your system try the Rab Xenon. It's got synthetic insulative sheets and blocks wind really really really well. I like mine.

[Wapow]

LOL! So many clueless responses. This appears to be Patagonia's latest version of what you're looking for: https://www.patagonia.com/product/me...-jackets-vests

[counterfeitfake]

Yeah, I've realized here in tech talk, you get a few people genuinely contributing, and also a ton of totally off-base noise. Thanks to those who read my question and are trying to answer it.

Not to be an asshole, but just transition faster and you won't need to put on a puffy at the top. Aren't you going to take it off at the bottom? I'm never cold when I ski.

I'm not going to call you an asshole but I'm rolling my eyes. You and I may be different and we tour in different environments.

I'm looking for a weather-resistant puffy to throw on as soon as I stop climbing, and wear on the ski down, and take off right before I start climbing up for another lap. For me, climbing is hot and sweaty, transitioning and skiing down are cold. Everybody has to figure out their own layering system.

That micropuff storm does look about right, but I'm pretty biased against Patagonia, the fit on the jacket I have is so bad for me that I lose heat whenever I move my arms. That's also damn expensive but I might need to get over that.

The Montbell is interesting.
I should look at the Arcteryx options.
I've got a couple Norrona items I like, but somehow that puffy doesn't look right, I don't know. I kind of think I want waterproof. Maybe this is actually what I want: https://www.norrona.com/en-GB/produc...60-jacket-men/
Is Eddie Bauer making good stuff under their own name now, instead of First Ascent?

I do take the point that I am probably not usually touring with enough insulation to survive a night out in the open.

Does anyone want to convince me I don't need a waterproof membrane? Lighter weight would be nice and I am probably rarely going to be using it in actual rain. But it's fuckin' wet here you know.

[Bronco]

I have an Arcteryx Nuclei FL from a couple of years ago that I use for this purpose. I sized it snug so it would fit under a waterproof shell if it was nuking snow but it's really water resistant on its own. I may upgrade to the current model as it has big drop in interior pockets. I'm usually a sweaty mess from skinning (in a long John shirt and pant vents open) and get cold real fast when I stop. The Nuclei seems to be a good weight for me to put on at breaks and transitions.

[counterfeitfake]

Apologies in advance for the rant, but the lack of appreciation and decreasing selection of choices in this category has me slightly riled.

Belaying jackets are too warm, not breathable enough, and not weather resistant enough for ridge top touring, transitions, and skiing when it’s snowing and blowing in temperatures between -5C and -10C (pretty much every day for me at the moment). A lightweight synthetic “active” insulator (nano puff or proton) combined with a waterproof breathable shell also works, but having one jacket that does both is (in my experience) more breathable, lighter, more packable, and much less fucking around.

To those that don’t need to layer up, lucky you. I’ve also skied with freaks that never wear gloves or goggles, but I’m one of those lean and efficient individuals that don’t generate much heat unless I’m trenching uphill, and I often need insulation to stay warm.

Despite living farther inland, this guy gets my deal exactly.

[counterfeitfake]

I'm usually a sweaty mess from skinning (in a long John shirt and pant vents open) and get cold real fast when I stop.

This guy too!

[XXX-er]

YMMV but IME touring is about putting on/ taking off clothing to be warm but not sweating and knowing when to, so start with soft shell pants (not bibs) & soft shell jacket

@ colder than -10 I find it necessary to wear long johns, poly or merino doesnt really matter, its not the down jacket but it is important part of the puzzle

Start out wearing a puffy over a soft shell & a poly or merino base layer, take puffy off after 10- min, put it back on for lunch stops and for the dow, cn

I like to shop local so which puffy to buy would depend on which technical puffies are on sale @ 40% off in the spring. Puffies tend to come in thicker or thinner so for colder than -10 I have a thick Rab that I like, for warmer than -10 a lighter Faction & a mtn hardwear, hoods are warmer so I gotta have em


BTW if your puffy is leaking feathers the Gear aid tenacious tape is good for bigger holes, but for the little holes that develop I use Liquid bandage or even clear nail polish, either poke the feathers back in first or just brush it on around the feathers super quick n easy clip off any excess featehrs

i have tried AQS of course but its cumbersome on a puffy

[Benneke10]

That micropuff storm does look about right, but I'm pretty biased against Patagonia, the fit on the jacket I have is so bad for me that I lose heat whenever I move my arms. That's also damn expensive but I might need to get over that.

Agree that Patagonia jackets fit like absolute dogshit, ridiculously boxy cuts, impossible to layer with other brands.

I use the North Face Ventrix for the purposes you describe. I can't really speak to how weather resistant it is because I've only used it in the Rockies where its adequate, but its warm enough down to 0 for me (touring), layered over a baselayer and thin softshell. Its also breathable enough to do a short climb but you get sweaty fast. Definitely on the warmer/less breathable side for an "active insulation" jacket which is good for this purpose. It can often be found cheap which is also nice, and the large fits me well, close to Euro style fit (original Ventrix from 3 years ago, not sure if fit is changed).

[Bronco]

YMMV but IME touring is about putting on/ taking off clothing to be warm but not sweating and knowing when to, so soft shell pants (not bibs) & jacket

Temps in the 20's (f) I start in soft-shell pants, long sleeve shirt and a wind shirt. Wind shirt comes off 10-30 minutes in, when warm but not sweating. Vents on pants open up gradually and I'm usually pretty wet from sweat after an hour of skinning. I don't put on a base layer on my legs until it's below 20. I'm a stocky Scotts-Irish and have always run warm.

[jacob_dbu]

I think folks who tour on the west side of cascades in the PNW have to layer very differently from intermountain and continental areas. You get responses from folks all over.

It's never -10 here. You are going to sweat here at an avg temp of 25-30deg. If you go up in a baselayer you're going to get wet from precip in addition to sweat. The reality is here you're going to get wet and it would make a night out miserable and/or downright dangerous without a full backup set of clothes.