Where to Invest Money Right Now?

[Kevo]

If I were your advisor, I'd strongly encorage you to move at least one, of not all, of the prior company 401ks trustee-to-trustee to a self-directed IRA. There are so many reasons to do that they go beyond the scope of what we're talking about. to the point at hand, though, they will let you do a lot better than 6k a year to a Roth and give you contol over your AGI, which you want for a whole host of reasons. and if you don't want or need that now, beleive me, you will down the road a bit. Cheers MT

Are there any situations in which you'd recommend a client make backdoor Roth IRA contributions?

The control one gains from rolling 401k to IRA is valuable in that you get to control your costs from an expense ratio and fund selection standpoint, no?

That same advantage of control over fund selection and expense ratios can be gained by rolling the employer 401k into a self directed individual 401k, with the additional advantage that you can make backdoor Roth IRA contributions through a zero balance tradional IRA.

Why would you willingly give up the additional $6k per year in tax advantaged contributions if you don't have to?

[Marshall Tucker]

I wasn't talking to you kevo and this has nothing to do with you. "many" is such a bullshit response. I talked over with our managing partner and with 991 individual clients this filing season we have exactly 2 that even meet the fact pattern. A fact pattern that you cannot describe or give an example. But you can link. Roll eyes.

I happen to believe the people that come to this thread are looking for real world answers to real problems and not pie-in-the-sky theoretical shit. I almost always give examples from my own personal experience. How about you?

So lets say you do what you propose.
"exactly how much money are you gonna get into a Roth with your wonderful little planning tool? 6k a year? for how many years? how much? if an individual has the kinda money it takes to do what you've wasted umpteen pages trying to defend, (which you can't describe without links), well. you're squibbing over nickels and generally being an asshole about it. And even further, if you've paid attention at all, your wonderful little strategy has some major legislation coming it's way.

Many people get to a point in life where they would benefit from making backdoor Roth IRA contributions and they DO already have an existing traditional IRA balance from regular contributions or 401k rollovers. Many of the same people also have access to Roth offerings in their benefits package.

None of those things preclude someone from contributing to a backdoor Roth IRA or benefiting from backdoor Roth IRA contributions.



I've already broken down the exact scenario point by in which someone would benefit from a backdoor Roth IRA and how one can avoid taxation on a pro-rated basis in this post- https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...89#post6597089

Perhaps instead of rehashing what I've already stated in this thread, you could read the article and tell us all what parts of it are factually incorrect? Specifically, it would be great if you could address whether the article is correct in how it outlines how basis isn't created in the zero balance traditional IRA by making a backdoor Roth contributions through it.



Awesome to hear. That makes at least three of us in this thread who benefit. I also suspect that there are others who would benefit. I invest into the same things you do (VTSAX, VTWAX, VFIFX)

[Kevo]

I wasn't talking to you kevo and this has nothing to do with you. "many" is such a bullshit response. I talked over with our managing partner and with 991 individual clients this filing season we have exactly 2 that even meet the fact pattern. A fact pattern that you cannot describe or give an example. But you can link. Roll eyes.

I happen to believe the people that come to this thread are looking for real world answers to real problems and not pie-in-the-sky theoretical shit. I almost always give examples from my own personal experience. How about you?

So lets say you do what you propose.
"exactly how much money are you gonna get into a Roth with your wonderful little planning tool? 6k a year? for how many years? how much? if an individual has the kinda money it takes to do what you've wasted umpteen pages trying to defend, (which you can't describe without links), well. you're squibbing over nickels and generally being an asshole about it. And even further, if you've paid attention at all, your wonderful little strategy has some major legislation coming it's way.

Anyone who makes more than $144k MAGI as an individual filer or $204k as a household after maxing out their employer's 401k meets the fact pattern for benefiting from the tax advantages of backdoor Roth IRA contribution.

That is 9% of the United States. That isn't a pie in sky theoretical shit.

$6k in additional tax advantaged investments per year during one's prime earning years up to retirement is significant. Definitely not squibbing over pennies.

[ötzi]

You both seem like good guys but relating to each other doesn't seem to work, maybe just stop doing that? I dunno, it's a thought.

[MakersTeleMark]

Or tax it to the IRA thread. Carbombs for everyone.

[Danno]

You both seem like good guys but relating to each other doesn't seem to work, maybe just stop doing that? I dunno, it's a thought.

Agreed. While I haven't followed their disagreement from its inception, and don't understand the substance at all, I will say that all of the name calling and vitriol I see is coming from MT, while at the same time he's claiming that Kevo is being an asshole. Seems like a wee bit of projection.

Not responding to each other seems the best solution.

[phatty]

Is there a way to ban both of them from this thread? Seriously MT and Kevo, multiple people at multiple times have told you to cut the crap in this thread. Both of you have taken serious Ls and it's time to move on and put each other on Ignore. You're both being worse the Bunny and that's saying something.

[muted reborn]

If MT is right he should be calling out kevo's googling bullshit - that's the TGR way. Can we get a ruling here, any other accountants present to make a call and end this?

[Danno]

If MT is right he should be calling out kevo's googling bullshit - that's the TGR way. Can we get a ruling here, any other accountants present to make a call and end this?

Agree that he should call Kevo out if he thinks Kevo is wrong. That said: Kevo has posted enough financial stuff over the years for me to say he didn't just google. He's not a pro but he's not some guy just spouting the first google hit he got. Also, I get that MT thinks Kevo is talking out his ass and is wrong. But he seems really angry about it, and has been spouting off angrily. Which I guess is also the TGR way. But he flat out said Kevo is being an asshole about it, and as near as I can see, he has reached that conclusion solely because Kevo isn't taking what he's said as gospel. Because Kevo has not been an asshole, he has simply stuck to his guns. If anyone has been an asshole about it in here....

But I'm just a dentist so I cannot give a ruling on the substance of their argument, just my ruling on the way they have argued.

[AdironRider]

I said it earlier but MT does this professionally and Kevo is a tech bro who read bogleheads.org for a couple minutes.

[Mazderati]

Candid of MT on the way home.

[Kevo]

I didn't invent some novel, dangerous tax avoidance strategy. I merely mentioned a well known, well documented strategy so that other people who could benefit from it could learn about it.

We have a CPA in this thread who at first claimed there was no benefit to said strategy (it's fucked up and stupid, don't listen to Kevo) and started name calling when I dared to contradict him. I've provided documentation from multiple sources to every claim that I've made. I stopped replying to this thread for weeks, then when called out "where are you, big man" I responded respectfully. More name calling ensued.

Now it's not that there isn't a benefit, it's just that it is so esoteric that it is pie in the sky theoretical shit....Except that it is something that roughly 10% of households could benefit from.

MT hasn't engaged even once with the content of the source that I've linked to. Just character attacks and name calling.

I make backdoor Roth IRA contributions. I learned about backdoor Roth IRA contributions from a friend who is a CFA/CFP who retired early from managing an 11 figure pension fund. My friend who is a tax lawyer makes backdoor Roth IRA contributions. I have several doctor friends who make backdoor Roth IRA contributions, as directed by their CPAs. There are other people in this thread who make backdoor Roth IRA contributions as directed by their CPAs. This isn't a controversial topic with any CPAs that I've personally engaged with.

Either everyone listed above and I have been led astray by a roving band of misfit CPAs who have written countless articles and books that explain the reasons for doing what we're doing (I'd love to know, by all means I'll stop doing what I'm doing if the information I'm following is proven wrong) or someone else wasn't familiar with this particular strategy and refuses to admit so.

@Adironrider- you don't know me dude. I wouldn't purport to know anything about what you know or don't know. Just stop.

If MT is right he should be using his personal expertise to disprove the content of sources I've linked or referencing any outside source other than personal experience that agrees with his take. He's repeatedly failed to do so.

That's my piece. I'm done talking backdoor Roth IRAs in this thread.

[mcphee]

For fucks sake you two. I made you your own thread.

[hatchgreenchile]

This backdoor, mega and I-bond chatter is lame.
I want to hear about the next Aerotyne International!

[bennymac]

This backdoor, mega and I-bond chatter is lame.
I want to hear about the next Aerotyne International!

They’re just waiting on that imminent patent approval…

[4matic]

+2 on MT advice right now. After balanced funds got pummeled I think they have good value. Maybe even a global fund like GBLAX

https://www.morningstar.com/funds/xnas/gblax/portfolio

[mcphee]

Thats not true, according to the Treasury Dept website
Attachment 416936

Is that right? If I bought an I-bond in 2010, I’d be earning between 9.62 and 10.14%? That’s about 15k in interest.

I was under the impression that if you bought at the current (9.62) rate , then inflation gets under control to normal levels of let’s say 2.5-3.5%, then your rate becomes that “normal” inflation rate.

Seriously apologize for the dipshittery over here. Financial shit confounds me and I’ve read all the FAQ on that .gov site but it’s not fully clear to me how it’s calculated.

[klauss]

Your 2010 bond would be earning 9.62 currently for the six months may through oct 2022, then it gets adjusted to the new inflation rate post October.

It hasn’t been earning 9.62 since 2010. This current six month window is the highest rate it has been since these things launched.

[mcphee]

Thanks, that’s what I thought but I’m not really making sense of the chart posted above from the treasury direct site.

[ötzi]

That chart would be clearer if it had another column, the Base Rate, to the left of the Composite rate column. If you think of the "Composite Rate" column as the "Effective Rate" that might help. The Effective Rate (or Composite Rate as they have it) is the base rate plus the inflation rate.

As I understand it at least.

[Ski220]

Thanks, that’s what I thought but I’m not really making sense of the chart posted above from the treasury direct site.

There's a fixed rate, for the life of the bond, and an inflation rate, which changes every 6 months.
edit: never mind, I found it
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv...dRateChart.pdf

Click link. Open file. Expand so you can read it.

First column is the 6 month period in which you purchased.
Second column is the fixed rate (rate at which it will not go below).
Each subsequent row is the composite rate for each 6 months since purchase.
i.e. You purchased an I-Bond in June 2018. Your fixed rate would be .3%.
The composite rate for each 6 month period is shown since inception, right to left.
Your initial composite rate was 2.52%. It's gone up, gone down and has now gone up to 9.93% currently.

[mcphee]

Perfect. Didn’t see that earlier. Thx

[rod9301]

I've got a good feeling about EPD.

Midstream pipeline company, they are paid by how much goes through their pipelines not how much the liquids cost. Share price moves sympathetic with the price of oil but not drastically. The company is largely owed by the Duncan family (founders of company) so they have a stake in how it is run and would do nothing to harm share price. It yields 7% so your money stays ahead of inflation. The distributions are easily covered by FCF and they've raised the distributions for 26 years. It's rated a strong buy with price targets between $29-$33.

I currently own 771 shares and buy more on any dip.

Yeah, epd is solid. It will go down, but not by much and they will not cut the dividend.

And with the us idiocy of suplying lng to Europe, the pipelines need to transport the natural gas, so this may offset the drop in domestic consumption due to a recession

Also hess midstream.

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

[gravitylover]

I had EPD and a few other midstreams and had to sell because my world changed and I needed the $$. I think it's time to get back into it a few shares at a time as I can afford it. Thanks for the kick

Anyone have any ideas for robotics? It just seems to me that warehouses and the general supply chain need them more than ever and IMO if manufacturing does make a serious effort at coming back to the States it's not going to be about human hands making things. What about companies that maintain that stuff? They're going to needed too.

[rod9301]

I had EPD and a few other midstreams and had to sell because my world changed and I needed the $$. I think it's time to get back into it a few shares at a time as I can afford it. Thanks for the kick

Anyone have any ideas for robotics? It just seems to me that warehouses and the general supply chain need them more than ever and IMO if manufacturing does make a serious effort at coming back to the States it's not going to be about human hands making things. What about companies that maintain that stuff? They're going to needed too.

Make sure you look at valuations too, but just sales potential.

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk